The Joomla! Forum™

From the bottom part of the article:

... In some situations, Joomla! will require the use of 3 rd party applications to assist ...

Shouldn't that be 3rd, not 3 rd?

Alright, enough with the nitpicking. Props as always for your efforts to make Joomla standards compliant. Now if we can just get some of these WYSIWYG editors to keep the code clean...

Really good news. I am really happy to hear this from the Joomla team.

Looking forward to testing and assisting in some way

alan-s

It just keeps getting better...you guys are the shiznits!

Great to hear! I've been building my Joomla site with standards in mind and I'm happy to hear that the frontend will soon (hopefully!) also be compliant. I wasn't looking forward to fixing this by hand. Expect to see my Joomla website for viewing soon.

It's wonderful your taking the time out to include those with disabilities so they may too enjoy such benefits the web may bring into their lives.  This is a primary focus and research technology that I have spent time with, anything I can do to help please feel free to ask.


Sincerely -

Hi, congratulations for the effort in improving Joomla accessibility. I think it says a lot in your favour to list all WCAG checkpoints and see how you rate for each of them, and what is left to do. I have never seen this done so honestly. So, keep on this track!  .

I would just like to point you also towards the ATAG guidelines: Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines 1.0 .  They are (currently, version 1.0) these seven ones, in summary:

1. Support accessible authoring practices.
2. Generate standard markup.
3. Support the creation of accessible content.
4. Provide ways of checking and correcting inaccessible content.
5. Integrate accessibility solutions into the overall "look and feel".
6. Promote accessibility in help and documentation.
7. Ensure that the authoring tool is accessible to authors with disabilities.

Most of the previous ones will be satisfied if you make Joomla capable of providing WCAG compatible content, but there are other general things that are good to keep in mind. Look at the explanations in the original document to get more hints and ideas.

It would be very nice if you could also list these and explicitly declare what has already been done, or is left to do, in every aspect. Just like you have done with the WCAG checkpoints in and following pages. And in this case, you should not find any "not core".

Regards, Rafael Romero.

Thank you for your comments Rafael.  Thanks also for pointing us to ATAG.

I must admit, at this point, this is not something we'll focus a lot of energy on.  There's enough work ahead of us to meet WCAG.  Our main focus is to provide the ability to deliver accessible websites.

My first thought is that Joomla! is a Content Management System, not a Web Authoring Tool.  Obviously, the W3C feels differently, as their definition of WAT includes:

Tools for site management or site publication, including tools that automatically generate Web sites dynamically from a database, on-the-fly conversion tools, and Web site publishing tools;

In as much as people will use Joomla! to create content, yes, it is then also a WAT.  But this remains more a "under the hood" feature.  I am not saying solely a backend feature, as content can be added/manipulated by login in the front end, but it is not something that the majority of sites visitors would "see".  Making the backend/admin more accessible will be looked at in the future, *after* we've nailed the front end delivery.  At that point, we'll seriously look into ATAG.

When the time is closer to do this, I will certainly take up your suggestion to do a self-analysis of ATAG as it relates to Joomla! (and I'll admit right now, I may forget, so don't hesitate to remind me down the road ).

Again, thanks for the heads up on this.

I work for Clemson University's facilities group and I'm redesigning our website.  I'd like to use Joomla, however we have a 508 deadline of July 1st.  Will 1.5 be ready before then, and if so any idea how soon?  And finally, will it comply with 508 Accessibility standards? 

fingers crossed

Dear killjoi, unfortunately I think that the accessibility improvements are not going as fast as they should in Joomla. I must say that I do not belong to the core group developing Joomla, but I see worrying signals which seems to indicate that advance in this track has stopped, despite the promising start with the Accessibility Statement. [1] btw this statement is dated "16 September 2005", more than 7 months ago now. It would be reassuring for all of us which hope for a WCAG/508 compliable Joomla to see a realistic update in the statement.
We were also considering Joomla for medium websites of ourUniversity of Valencia (Spain), but given the effort it is taking to make our first pilot application compliable we are seriously thinking on moving to another tool like Typo3 which also has a committment for accessibility. [2] We are really having to modify every component to remove tables, provide links with relevant text, accessible forms, adequate headers,  and so on...
I would really like to be more optimistic because I think that Joomla is a great product, but in this particular area, and right now,  I can not be so. Regards, Rafa romero.
[1] http://help.joomla.org/content/view/805/125/
[2] http://typo3.com/Feature_list.1243.0.html >> "Accessibility/WAI Compliant:  Project team dedicated to making all aspects of TYPO3 meet international accessibility standards, including the core and extensions"

Bummer!  I was looking forward to Joomla 

I am taking a look at Typo3 now.

They are few groups were you can get all the stuff for an accessible website.

Run Digital 508 Hack: http://www.run-digital.com/download/hacks.html

Accessible Joomla: http://developer.joomla.org/sf/projects ... ble_joomla

The work on the 508Joomla-Package is in progress and hasn't stopped. With the 1.5 we (Design & Accessibility Working Group) plan to pulish a package to change the "normal" Joomla to a 508Joomla.

Edit: Typo

lukewill wrote: They are few groups were you can get all the stuff for an accessible website.

Run Digital 508 Hack: http://www.run-digital.com/download/hacks.html

Accessible Joomla: http://developer.joomla.org/sf/projects ... ble_joomla

The work on the 508Joomla-Package is in progress and hasn't stopped. With the 1.5 we (Design & Accessibility Working Group) plan to pulish a package to change to "normal" Joomla an 508Joomla.

Sweet!  That's great news.  I've continued to play with Joomla and frankly I'm in love with its functionality.

A quick intro, then down to work, We (members of the Adaptive Technology Resource Centre at the University of Toronto) are heavily involved with the development of the W3C accessibility guidelines (WCAG, ATAG, UAAG), and involved  with the Evaluation and Repair Tool working group. We lead the ATAG working group.

We recently began using Joomla for our many Web sites, though things have stalled for the moment as we try to deal with the accessibility issues. Given who we are, we can't very well put up an innaccessible Web site. We are aware of the accessibility patches available for.07, but we're using .08, so waiting patiently for its patches to be published. Any day now I hear.

http://forum.joomla.org/index.php?actio ... ;board=142

vavroom wrote: At that point, we'll seriously look into ATAG.

Don't bother trying to comply with ATAG 1.0, It's pretty much impossible, and it will not be long before it is superceded by ATAG 2. Though technically you can not be ATAG 2.0 compliant yet, we have completed some work with the guys at Moxiecode, making TinyMCE ATAG 2.0 compliant (when the spec is released). All Joomla needs to do it drop the current version of TinyMCE, along with the AChecker plugin created for it, and viola! ATAG compliance!  We have implemented TinyMCE with the AChecker plugin in our LMS ATutor (atutor.ca), if you'd like a demo, or perhaps model for how it might work in Joomla. TinyMCE will be both WCAG 2 and ATAG 2 compliant when the new specs are finalized in the near future.

Also, WCAG 2 is now in last call before it becomes a W3C specification, so to try to comply with WCAG 1, which is quite outdated, is probably the wrong path to stay on. WCAG 2 is close enough to stable that it can be used as a guideline for developing an accessible Joomla, and in many cases, it is easier to comply with than WCAG 1.

If there are questions about the new WCAG an ATAG guidelines, we can provide answers. Our expertise is at your disposal. 

Greg

I hope someone contacted you about this generous offer

Andy has.

I'll be posting a WCAG 2 review of the public frontend of Accessible Joomla in the next day or so. When its ready you'll find it at:

http://forge.joomla.org/sf/discussion/d ... t.topc2349

eyezberg wrote: I hope someone contacted you about this generous offer

Don't bother trying to comply with ATAG 1.0, It's pretty much impossible, and it will not be long before it is superceded by ATAG 2.

I am very glad you said this...It is a point I have made over and over again that accessability and standards compliance is only half the job of building a system that is truly standards compliant. standards change in time and there needs to be a system in place that allows us the flexability to easily upgrade the system to comply whenever new standards come out.

I know this flexability was scheduled for 2.0 release of Joomla so I know the developers are thinking along the same lines but there are many that simply want them to recode the output for current standards without any concern for modularity of standards upgrade later on should those standards change which to me would leave us with yet another system that is not fully standards compliant!

It may take a little longer to get to compliance if we build in the flexability first but it will be easy to implement standards compliance no matter how much they might change because that flexability will allow any web developer to make the changes without the need for waiting for the core to do it for us.

I had the distinct opportunity of meeting and listening to Colin Clark from the Adaptive Technology Resource Centre at the University of Toronto at the Sakai conference yesterday and today.

We are so fortunate at Joomla! to have their attention and willingness to help address usability issues.

I am thankful that our core team so quickly responded to their generous, and obviously knowledgable offer. Look for good things this year in accessibility!

Amy

I have been trying to evaluate Content Management Systems for a large scale project that will include a number of government agencies.

It has become clear to me that despite claims to the contrary, Content Management Systems do NOT meet accessibility requirements, are not compatible with screen readers used by visually impaired users and rely on editors and modules that do not generate "clean" accessible nor compliant XHTML code.

Can you suggest any way in which we can meet our requirements for accessibility? Can a template be designed that is truly accessible? Can an editor plug-in be used that is compliant, xStandard editor for example?

Looking forward to any help or links to useful resources that you can offer.

drkirkwilson wrote: I have been trying to evaluate Content Management Systems for a large scale project that will include a number of government agencies.

It has become clear to me that despite claims to the contrary, Content Management Systems do NOT meet accessibility requirements, are not compatible with screen readers used by visually impaired users and rely on editors and modules that do not generate "clean" accessible nor compliant XHTML code.

I can name a couple of CMS packages that are XHTML standard
LDU
Seditio
Geeklog (Per your Template)
PHPX (per your Template)

Can you suggest any way in which we can meet our requirements for accessibility? Can a template be designed that is truly accessible? Can an editor plug-in be used that is compliant, xStandard editor for example?

Looking forward to any help or links to useful resources that you can offer.

Here is my suggestion. Use Static Pages for geeklog for your content and validate the content separately from your VALID template

If you want Joomla, You can take a look at the Template Section, as there is a couple of tutorials on how to cut out MUCH of the hard coded HTML, however you will more than likely end up having to change some files manually (hack the core code) You can take a look at some of the Extentions such as the 508 hack, however they usually are a little behind or may require you to edit them to be 1.10 compatable.

You could wait, as Joomla 1.5x roadmap looks promising towards Assessiblity.

Or Should I get "enough" free time in the next month or so I will release a Tableless , CSS Compliant , 508 Compliant (output only) Version of Joomla. Still unsure exactly how I release the modifications