Language standarts for 3rd party extensons ?

[rued]

Hm ...

We could keep the ideas coming, but if there isn't enough resources in the team to handle those it seems wasted.

I have to ask, is JED a closed group only open upon invitation? Reason for asking is that there was another similar post, some time ago, where some volunteered but got rejected. Maybe there was a story behind this that wasn't public, but it did seem odd and still does if there is a lack of resources within the team - to handle an important tag like this.

Think about all the time people spend around the world, in no English parts, on downloading and testing extensions that they can't use because the language handling is missing. That's a lot of wasted time, time I personally could spent on another translation or two ...

Just my 2 cents.

[LorenzoG]

Right now, we have a "language" icon saying "(L) Language - Provides language translation". Except for translations, this icon has also been used by the developers informing that their extensions have multi-language capability or there are several translations included.

What we now need is to sit down and discuss if we should tightned the use of this "language" icon or maybe create a new specific icon/tag.

I think the Language Guidelines for 3rd Party Extensions that Pe7er and Infograf have written helps a lot.
http://docs.joomla.org/Language_Guideli ... Extensions . One idea which also is suggested by Rued is to point to this guideline when a developer submits a new extension and want to use the language icon.

One idea could be that developers only are allowed to use a language icon if they have followed this guidline and that there is at least en-GB.xxx.ini file in the extension package.

I don't think it would be to difficult for us to check if a such file exist before we approve any extensions with this language icon enabled. At least the non-commercial ones since they are downloadable. We are already now many times checking the .xml files and in some cases the code itself.

>I have to ask, is JED a closed group only open upon invitation? Reason for asking is that there was another similar
>post, some time ago, where some volunteered but got rejected. Maybe there was a story behind this that wasn't
> public, but it did seem odd and still does if there is a lack of resources within the team - to handle an important
> tag like this.
If there is a specific thing we should look on, then I think we can handle it.

We are partly going OT here but yes, the JED team are staffed only upon invitation of good reasons. I explain it in my last paragraph in my post here:
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f ... 5#p1269012

We have also precisely got a new JED team member .. we are going to present this person in a blog

I'm going to initiate a discussion internally about this and see if we can come up with a good solution.

[ghosty]

I think the Language Guidelines for 3rd Party Extensions that Pe7er and Infograf have written helps a lot.
http://docs.joomla.org/Language_Guideli ... Extensions . One idea which also is suggested by Rued is to point to this guideline when a developer submits a new extension and want to use the language icon.

Hi,

Well I would also suggest to point the Dev's to the Guidlines there I think they are verry capable of what should be required.

Right now, we have a "language" icon saying "(L) Language - Provides language translation". Except for translations, this icon has also been used by the developers informing that their extensions have multi-language capability or there are several translations included.

Just a thought from my side here, IMO there should be even more Language related buttons for JED Listing. Lets say, a Extension has been developed and using like en-GB.xxxx.ini then it should have a Button saying MLC "Multi Language Capable" If there are even more Language files in it, allready translated, then the button "L" should state this together withe the MLC one.

I don't think it would be to difficult for us to check if a such file exist before we approve any extensions with this language icon enabled. At least the non-commercial ones since they are downloadable. We are already now many times checking the .xml files and in some cases the code itself.

Lorenzo, you know best what JED People need to do, before a extension get's Published at JED. The easyer it is for you, the quicker the extensions will get published.

Cheers and thanks for your Help.

Pete

[ep98]

Just a thought from my side here, IMO there should be even more Language related buttons for JED Listing. Lets say, a Extension has been developed and using like en-GB.xxxx.ini then it should have a Button saying MLC "Multi Language Capable" If there are even more Language files in it, allready translated, then the button "L" should state this together withe the MLC one.

Or just all extensions to be Revised, Remository can't be a 1.5 Native extensions, since use the old Joomla 1.0 style for maintaining languages.

Not all extensions which have L icon support language switching, such application is marketplace, and have to be manual hacked by advanced joomla user to be used with JoomFish, at least to change the extensions UI.

There are several applications (extensions), which are released as native, but all languages are hard coded into the code, such Plugins, Modules can't be native or at least International Friendly. Joomla 1.5 Framework gives ability to make every part of each component, module, plugin, template - multi lingual, and this have to be a standard.

Right now, we have a "language" icon saying "(L) Language - Provides language translation". Except for translations, this icon has also been used by the developers informing that their extensions have multi-language capability or there are several translations included.

Again, this icon means nothing. VirtueMart is a native extension, right ? yeah, somehow is it native, but use old charsets ISO, Windows-125x, and such language files make it not even Native 1.5, but incompatible with 1.5.
Remository 3.45.xx use only ISO style encodings, and in this way this extensions is not compatible with 1.5.
There are thousand of extensions, which are not 1.5 Native by any meaning, they can be installed without the Legacy plugin, but this not make them Native.

Since this discussion was started, and I'm getting deeper and deeper in the way of doing work here, by commenting and commenting and commenting, but nothing to move to better. I've decide with some friends from Joomla Turkey and Joomla Bulgaria, to build and unofficial Extensions Directory Tree in the way which should to be.

The testing site shows great results, users prefers to download Phoca Gallery 1.8.8 Full Package, instead of downloading thousand files splited into different categories.

Currently if I have to download jDownloads and all files for it, or Phoca Gallery, I have to use the useless MTree search function or to browse each category/sub category to pick the right modules for my chosen components.
Current JED site, is inaccurate, Review approvers are a bit AFK, or approves what they think is good, this means CENSOR, and in the days of democracy and freedom of speech, everyone can publish what he/she see in the exampled component, plugin or module, this is solved on thousands support sites by comments with Captcha/re-Captcha, here is the censor, some posts move in, some in trash. What for is this JED, to give a thanks to some of "our friends" or to make it community friendly extensions tree, where people can download and comment different extensions. Secondary, all of this downloads are available from Developers sites, what about if they got hacked, or stopped or they reach the limit of the traffic like Mosets.com long time ago. The Joomla users will not be able to download the selected extension, that's why all extensions should be stored local.

1.0 Native to be listed as obsolete, since Joomla 1.0.15 is obsolete.
1.5 Native like Chrono Comments 1.1 to be listed as real native extensions.
1.5 Legacy and Emulation like Remository, VirtueMart, JoomlaExplorer to be listed as Emu/Legacy Extension.
1.5 Extensions like thousand of plugins and modules which are with hard coded language strings into the codes, to be listed as NON-User-Friendly extensions.

[ghosty]

I think the issue here is that they run well in J! 1.5 without enabling the Legacy Plugin, some developers simply dont care about non english speaking...

In this case we should be talking about, Native (incl. Muli Lingual), Native (Non Multi Lingual), Native (Hardcoded) = Not easy to translate! and perhaps Native and ready to Translate ??

Since this discussion was started, and I'm getting deeper and deeper in the way of doing work here, by commenting and commenting and commenting, but nothing to move to better. I've decide with some friends from Joomla Turkey and Joomla Bulgaria, to build and unofficial Extensions Directory Tree in the way which should to be.

The testing site shows great results, users prefers to download Phoca Gallery 1.8.8 Full Package, instead of downloading thousand files splited into different categories.

This sounds Intressting ...

1.0 Native to be listed as obsolete, since Joomla 1.0.15 is obsolete.
1.5 Native like Chrono Comments 1.1 to be listed as real native extensions.
1.5 Legacy and Emulation like Remository, VirtueMart, JoomlaExplorer to be listed as Emu/Legacy Extension.
1.5 Extensions like thousand of plugins and modules which are with hard coded language strings into the codes, to be listed as NON-User-Friendly extensions.

[/quote]

This could also be a worked on "solution" to have a better overview in JED... But again, imagen the work load they already have...

And, ahm ... I wouldnt call it "NON-User Friendly" I would rather say Non-translation friendly in stead

Cheers

Pete

[mic]

English is the most used language on this planet, and it IS universal language.

From which planet you are?
Maybe spoken from about 30%.
Further 15% think they can speak.
10% think they understand.

Leaves a rest of 55% which do not speak and/or understand english.

Quite funny that always those with english as mother language and a few more think, that the whole world is english.

[pe7er]

MOD note: Please stay on topic, which is "Language standarts for 3rd party extensons".

[mic]

This post was 'on topic', because since about 9 years i am dealing with this CMS (earlier Mambo, now Joomla).

And it is - since the first day - the same as i described above.

I can only fully agree, that something like a guideline should be published - maintained by Joomla itself.
And i also agree 100%, that extensions (no matter if com, mod or plg) which are not be able to work in a multilinguale environement and are not following these guidelines are not user-friendly (and should be marked as that)!

Too many extension are published every day with hardcoded text in it (frontend better, backend very bad)!
J.1.x lives now since 3 years, J.1.5.x not so long, but some developers haven't realize the possibilities if beeing multilingual and how important that will be (even the possibilities in Joomla are not that great - but better than it started).

Every extension (the whole, front- & backend) should be translateable - even if the author is not able to do that, he has to prepare 'his' extension to enable 3rd party translators todo so - easily!

And this is why i posted that with the 'english issue': if more developer would think about that, more extension would be 'user friendly'.

[ep98]

This post was 'on topic', because since about 9 years i am dealing with this CMS (earlier Mambo, now Joomla).

(Check again from which year Mambo is public available, and what for the Joomla fork comes out) And what was before Mambo, do u know which is the first Content Management System ?
The Mambo/Joomla/Mia/Elxis is not the first and will be not the last CMS.

Your post is out of topic, bcz u're posting in the middle of problem without to read first topic and replies.

From which planet you are?
Maybe spoken from about 30%.
Further 15% think they can speak.
10% think they understand.

Austria and Belgium are every seconds out of this planet, called Earth
http://sourceforge.net/projects/gtlt - leads u to something that u will not understand...

How I can manage to speak with Indians and to make them to translate XOOPS to 5 different Indian languages widely used in whole country India without English ? How I'll contact Japaneses without English, or I'm polyglot which speaks every language and variation on this planet, and I'll repeat myself once more time, which language uses Jooomla.org - German ? or Russian ? or Indian. Comparing UK to India which is larger, and why not mine site and all sub domains are not in German or Indian, why Enlgish 'mic' ?

How I can coordinate (in the time when I have fate in Open Source) people from different nations, with different languages and with different interests to work for one cause, with German Language ? Think again !

The only one language used on this planet also known as Earth, is English, this is the only way to get readable and understandable mails from JM, which is natural French, from Onokazu (nickname of the Japanese author of XOOPS, now XOOPSCube), Francisco Burzi - the creator of the first Open Source That Matter CMS, and Mambo comes 5 years after that.

After the flame of which language is widely used (I'm Bulgarian and I'm forced to use English to write my comments about Joomla.org / Joomla core in English to be understand by every developer of this project) now to the main subject !

Guidelines means one thing, understandable in this (nova days) open source world, as "something that I can use or ignore", Rules set the rights, and protection for the users to use something that is not compatible for them.

If there was a rule Approved/Certified by Joomla.org applications, thing will stand better.

1. Virtue Mart maintains language files and partial JoomFish support, but is not fully 1.5 Native application
2. Extplorer is everything else then 1.5 Native extension, no matter that have multi-language support
3. Morpheoshow is fully native 1.5 extension, but is not translator friendly by reordering language files each time, while adding additions to the extension, instead to follow the way of the authors like Arno (http://www.joomlaaddons.de), Jan Pavelka (http://www.phoca.cz) (he is resident of Czech Republic and without English we will not get solved any problems), Arno is German (and knows and use English very well, Austria is just country without language and alphabet - accept it as flame), http://www.sigsiu.net with SOBI 2 - they can maintain languages in the best way to safe translators time, but Soeren and thousand others can't, that was the main part which is missed by most people witting here.

Second part was for all this pseudo developers creating partially compatible extensions with hard coded strings.

Third part was a test, where is the difference between Mambo and Joomla Communities, and the only difference is one - I'm still not banned here, but with thousand warning regarding the bad understanding of GPL of some people here (JCalcPro was the subject, and is still listed as GPL).

On both places dear 'mic' people, developers, gurus, supervisors just talk and write what is good and what not, and the subject moves to nowhere.

(Flame or not) What's the language which is widely used in Austria (German), what u use to be get understand on this forum (English), so wake up and stop make comments like this.

This sounds Intressting ...

Yeah, and the first step is done, earlier alpha can be saw here
http://www.addonsbg.eu - ... and oh, no... it's XOOPS, yeah bcz Joomla have everything except community road map (we "joomla devs" gives u the core, what u will do is limited by your imagination, makes it what is really, perfect core for forking and nothing more).

For sure u dear Ghostly u are not English and u don't get anything in Cyrillic, but where was the problem Extensions to look at least like that ?
http://addonsbg.eu/modules/wfdownloads/ ... =6&lang=en
click on the flags, did u notice the difference ? Yeah for sure !

Excluding my country and every other small country like Vietnam, extensions.joomla.org is :

1. Non-friendly Community Extensions Directory
(What the hell happens with JADS and many more extensions) ?
2. Out of date extensions directory
3. Catalog which something which may or not work with Joomla 1.0/1.5 without any comments from the people behind joomla.org

JADS was a nice advanced fork of ADSManager, why was removed, no one of JED place a notice to all removed applications, but Applications like eZ Autos which is no longer compatible with Joomla 1.0.15 UTF-8 and Joomla 1.5 are still listed.

Russia (:) "Mother Russia" ) is the largest country of the world, still it is with this thousands FORMER RUSSIAN COUNTRIES, they're all speak Russian, but Russian is not the most wide used language on the planet Earth dear 'mic' and others which not love English but is the only way to get understandable by others.

What about of at least to start support UTF-8 on extensions.joomla.org and allowing users to comment in they're own language (wondering how much will use German dear 'mic'), and letting Joomla Approved Translators to make a multilingual description of the most used extensions at least), is it so hard ?

No it's not, It can be done (and u Ghostly will see version 2 very soon based on Mambo fork), but not with extensions which are not 1.5 Native, not Joomla Approved, and not user friendly.

[Text has been removed. See forum rules: This is not the place to settle a commercial disagreement for custom development or to be a 'wall of shame'. Any posts deemed to be of this nature will be removed. Settle your disputes in private please. ]

Everyday I can see that good extensions, fork of the forked applications comes in and 2 days later they gone without notice, what the hell is the job of JED maintainers ?

What is JADS, it's a fork of ADSManager, and what the hell is ADSManager, fork of Marketplace, so for your understanding of GPL, one fork may stay on JED, others not ?

JADS is the only one example, bcz I've not read extensions.joomla.org and prefer to get the news thru Google translator from Joomla Turkey and Joomla Germany (germans are always wrong about widely used languages.... but never mind).

[Geoff]

Moderator Note: Please keep all comments civil and be respectful to one another.

If you have suggestions to make the JED better, I recommend that you post it over at the JED boards. We are open to suggestions to make the directory better for the community. I do want you to stay on topic here on the subject of translations. Your suggestions will be better understood and the JED suggestions can be addressed more thoroughly.

As for the GPL issue, it's been debated to the death already and bringing it up again would only be beating a dead horse. Anyhow, I'm going to suggest that you take up any licensing issues/problems you may have with the developer and/or your lawyer.

Continuing on, from what I understand here is that you want to create a set of standards for extensions so that they can be translated easily. I do agree with you that it would be nice to have translations in multiple languages for all the extensions.

Applications like eZ Autos which is no longer compatible with Joomla 1.0.15 UTF-8 and Joomla 1.5 are still listed.

There is a "report" button on the listing which you can use to report the extension.

JADS was a nice advanced fork of ADSManager, why was removed, no one of JED place a notice to all removed applications, but Applications like eZ Autos which is no longer compatible with Joomla 1.0.15 UTF-8 and Joomla 1.5 are still listed.

Depends on the extent of the fork. The full policy on forked extensions is on the JED.

Once again, if you can post in the JED board your suggestions, we can better address them there.