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Is RedShop Pro non-GPL? The question is really about GPL vs non-GPL (and whether that rule should be changed) and not about commercial vs non-commercial.

Kind regards,
Nick

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there would be no troubles like this if they just split the JED in free/freemium/sponsored/adware and Commercial.

it's appaling to notice once again how the JED editors treat the JED like a game when in fact there's a lot of money at stake.

in other more serious marketplaces someone could get sued for removing a commercial listing without the slightest prior notice.

At this point, it really looks like people don't like to read and understand what's going on before commenting...for the nth time...it's not about free/commercial.

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this has been disucssed nuerous times before and reason why its not currently done so.


i would say a lot of developers do. eg those who upload extensions for testing that comply with the JED rules and guidelines and then change their extensions for a more nasty one at the download site.
being listed on the JED is a priviledge and not a right and is free. If you solely rely on the JED to promote/sell extensions then that is your fault. Never gamble with money you cant afford to lose.

are the rules and guidelines not sufficient notice? are the community blogs and PJO, twitter, IRC discussions not sufficient notice?

and without requoting the above paragraph, if a dev does not think its "serious" enough, then they shouldnt be staking their "livelyhood" on it.

so whats the summary of this?
* hikashop were delisted as they promoted/linked a non-gpl version in their text?
* another developer has done the same thing but not been delisted? (has it actually been reported via the report button/system?)

above are all personal opinions...

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Just to reply to this: We were not promoting any non GPL version in our extension text.
That's the reason invoked apparently, but we made sure that it was not the case after being delisted once for such reason so we were surprised to be delisted for the same reason a second time.
So far, we still don't know clearly why we were delisted nor were we able to talk to anyone about it. It's been more that a month now and no one from the JED team replied to our emails nor on this thread.

To be fair to Hikashop, it's not in the TOS. It's not on the wiki docs. I don't know of any community blog, twitter, etc, notice about it. The only place the "rule" (if you'd even call it that) is documented is in the area that the developer is supposed to visit after the rule has been broken...how does that make sense?

Kind regards,
Nick

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Try the new ticket system (log in first):
http://extensions.joomla.org/index.php? ... group_view

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please note my sentence with the question mark and not as a statement as implied

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@mandville : good, but as hikashop's developer and Nick pointed out he did nothing wrong and the JED system is broken.

i know the JED registration system is having issues, but am not sure if anything else is broken

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Bottom line is .. JED make the rules of their FREE service. It is up to the developer to fit in with the JED's interpretation of their own rules. If JED sat the extension is in then it's in. If they say it's out then it's out.

Antagonising the people who make and interoperate the rules achieve nothing.

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Hi Webdongle,

But there isn't a "rule" to follow and it's not in the TOS. It's quite silly to unpublish an extension for a non-existent rule. The poor guy had his extension unpublished for a non-existent rule and now he is being ignored.

Secondly, I've been on the waiting end as Hikashop is now, and the JED Team going a month or more without responding is unacceptable. They are not just volunteers. They are in volunteer positions and therefore they have a responsibility to respond in a timely manner. They don't own the JED, so it's not their rules or the highway. They are there to serve the community. The community wasn't created for the JED Team or the JED for that matter. The JED Team was created for the community.

Kind regards,
Nick

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Our account has been banned from extensions.joomla.org. So we cannot login and thus cannot use the ticket system. I asked by email if that was ok to create a new account to post a ticket but didn't got an answer yet.


Sorry, I overlooked the question mark.

Right, sorry. I forgot you mentioned that over a month ago.

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This all looks like something the Hikashop people and the people from the JED team could work out, if the JED team connects with the Hika responsible.

Hika should just be prepared that they need to do adjustments to their site if they want to make use of the great free service that JED is. Because they cannot list non-GPL on their site, if they want to be listed in JED. It is a simple rule, and simple to follow.

I can see that it is questioned whether this is clear as it is not in the tos. So as an outsider I took a moment to try submit an extension. At the very top of the submit page you see:

Clicking that link takes you to the 'Publishing to JED' page, and there you see near the top a License section. I clicked the JED Entries License Checklist as this sounded what I need to know.

At this 'JED Entries License Checklist' there are 4 checks you have to clear.
Had I wanted to publish and extension and at same time list non-GPL at my project site, well.... then I can see at point 1 of check 1, that this is not going to happen. No need to look further for me then.

Either I have to change what I list at my project site - or I will have to choose not to list anything in JED. Looks like this is the case for Hika too.

All in all it cant be much of a surprice to anyone at this time that joomla is all GPL

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Ole Bang Ottosen
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Hi Ole,

Good find!

Looks like the page was created in early August of 2010 (over a year ago).

Around that same time period, I don't see a community leadership blog about that being a new requirement (http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leade ... l?start=35).

It's still not in the TOS:
http://extensions.joomla.org/tos

So what happens if an extension was published before August 2010? Is the developer expected to daily/weekly/monthly/yearly to go through documentation for How to get an extension published when the extension is already published?

Also, that page is twice removed (2 links away) from the rules (TOS), and every place that links to the FAQ calls it an area for help and it's not mentioned as being an area for rules (the only exception is "special rules on votes by developers" which doesn't apply to this situation).

There really needs to be a communication channel for these type of changes. At the very least, the TOS should be updated.

Kind regards,
Nick

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@ot2sen
If so, then as hikashop mentioned in the following message, we should remove Community Builder, SOBI2, JCal Pro, Agora, Acajoom and a lot of extensions from JED, all of them promote non-GPL extensions on their sites:
viewtopic.php?p=2554303#p2554303

@denisdulici Obviously the same ruleset should apply to all developers in JED.
Should that not be the case, then either the rule or the handling of it should have an internal review.

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feel free to make official reports on them. via their jed page,

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[quote="mandville"][quote="denisdulici"] and a lot of extensions from JED, all of them promote non-GPL extensions on their sites:[/quote]

feel free to make official reports on them. via their jed page,[/quote]

Community Builder for instance.
They seel their "CB Subs" addons which is not gpl and is ioncoded.

@dubois

FYI, she meant go to extensions.joomla.org, log in, go to the specific page for the extension and click the report button.

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[quote="Nick Savov"]@dubois

FYI, she meant go to extensions.joomla.org, log in, go to the specific page for the extension and click the report button.[/quote]

ok, i will file the report, but the people in charge of the JED shouldn't put too much faith on our good will, i mean CB Subs is on sale since 2008, and it's certainly not the only case around, who knows how many other vendors sell non-gpl scripts in the same site.

moreover, as a developer i feel this rule should be better explained in the JED :
is it related only to joomla addons ? what if in the same site i also sell encrypted ASP scripts ? or Python scripts ? or windows shareware ?

for instance .. i could compile a .EXE windows toolbar and giving it away as freeware (not gpl) .. does this breaks the JED rule ? should i provide the C++ VS project source code ?

is it including also the sale of other scripts in sub-domains ?
is it forbidden even to link to an external site ? example, a site selling only gpl scripts but linking to its pro non-gpl version on a different domain ?

it simply shouldn't be joomla's business what vendors do in their own site and as we can see in this thread it's impossible to fully enforce this rule unless each one of the 8000+ are screened one by one and site per site.

i'm not aware of similar draconian regulations for wordpress or drupal extensions.
i fully understand it's meant to avoid the JED being flooded by "light" versions used to fish potential Pro customers but how is that any different from the many free and freemium extensions in the JED which are only designed to be a sort of "trial" or limited-demo version to lure buyers into their real offerings in their vendor site ?

Based on the reading of the documentation, it only applies to Joomla extensions, so you can have Python scripts, asp scripts, etc, without breaking the "rule".

Kind regards,
Nick

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good.

but there must be a way for a company to also sell ioncubed scripts if they wish.
why should joomla dictate how a company runs its business ?

is it "legal" to sell non-gpl stuff in separate domains ?
could the domain be linked by a text link or a banner ?

Yes, according to that "rule" it's fine if it's on another domain, however they might interpret it as "promoting" if you link to it.

Kind regards,
Nick

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exactly, but so how can i do both if i can't even link or put a banner in my site ?

should i run two different web agencies, each one having its own web site and its own products ?
one GPL and one non-gpl commercial ?

if we look at the GPL licence there's no mention about these limitations, to me it seems to be yet another unfair political and ideological rule against anyone trying to run a business providing solutions for joomla users.

Sorry, it's not my rules so I can't really do anything about it. To their credit though, the rule was added with good intent. No one is out to get businesses or anyone for that matter, so I don't think it's fair to suggest that.

Kind regards,
Nick

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Personally I have used a few carts free and paid. They all come with problems, just read the help forum for each cart you are thinking about and pay close attention to the response times and the language used.

I won't single out any particular cart for criticism here. However, I would suggest that you check each out thoroughly before making a decision and as I said, read their support forums and pay close attention to what's said, how long it took to get a response, whether the problem was solved and what language was used by the moderators in their responses.

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It would appear that the JED Team does not apply their rules consistently. This is really getting old and tiring:
viewtopic.php?p=2614470#p2614470

Kind regards,
Nick

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exactly what we're trying to say since a long time.