2.5.x -> 3.3.3 MIGRATION/UPGRADE GUIDE

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mikerotec
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2.5.x -> 3.3.3 MIGRATION/UPGRADE GUIDE

Post by mikerotec » Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:33 pm

EOL for 2.5 is just FOUR MONTHS AWAY.

The 2.5->3.x upgrade forum has 45 pages of threads, most related to various unexpected disasters upgrading.

Where is the comprehensive guide?
I'm looking at The DOCS PORTAL, but no joy there. :(

There is a helpful 'advisory' post ("practical guide") but it misses a couple of things that can be site-killers ('remember.php' and also 'leftover 1.7 database files' both come to mind)
And there should be a checklist included of known "setting slippages" to check on (configuration settings that silently change during the 'one-click upgrade').

This is pretty URGENT, there are (best guess) HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of working 2.5.x sites out there that need to be upgraded without days of downtime, or lost data...

Or will EOL of 2.5.x be pushed back another year or two??
Extending support for 2.5.24 is a very viable option, too. (IMHO)

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Re: 2.5.x -> 3.3.3 MIGRATION/UPGRADE GUIDE

Post by wwtn » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:03 pm

Actually... Leo has posted something very useful within the Joomla Forums which may be close to what you're looking for.

"Practical Guide Upgrade Joomla 2.5 to Joomla 3.x"

http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=710&t=793171

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Re: 2.5.x -> 3.3.3 MIGRATION/UPGRADE GUIDE

Post by mikerotec » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:42 pm

Yes, if you look carefully you will see that I referenced that in the post above. The problem is, that "Practical Guide" (while a great start) is not comprehensive. If you read through the pages of posts that follow the guide, there are other suggestions scattered piecemeal that complement it. And there are at least two things I have found in my personal experience testing 2.5.24->3.3.3 upgrading that are not listed anywhere in the thread yet. It's a bit ridiculous to have to piece together an 'upgrade guide' out of multiple posts in a thread - and indeed multiple threads perhaps scattered across multiple forums.

I respectfully suggest that it is HIGH TIME to get a clear, succinct, and 100% comprehensive upgrade guide published in the OFFICIAL JOOMLA DOCUMENTATION, so that the many thousands of site administrators faced with pending 2.5 EOL can find it and use it.

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Re: 2.5.x -> 3.3.3 MIGRATION/UPGRADE GUIDE

Post by monlike » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:49 pm

wwtn that a nice share
mikerotec you can read this article too
http://www.dart-creations.com/joomla/jo ... mla-3.html

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Re: 2.5.x -> 3.3.3 MIGRATION/UPGRADE GUIDE

Post by mikerotec » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:58 pm

Yes, I have read that article, and other similar ones scattered around the web.

Problem again is this : NOT COMPREHENSIVE!!

Follow that step by step and in many cases your site will still CRASH AND BURN.
(see the forum: Migrating and Upgrading to Joomla! 3.x )

And again, this thread is just amplifying the problem... in order to perform a simple "1-click-upgrade", should I really have to read several web pages scattered around the internet??

NO, NO, NO!
I contend that instead, there should be a concise and 100% comprehensive instruction right at the very top of the OFFICIAL JOOMLA DOCUMENTATION PORTAL.

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Re: 2.5.x -> 3.3.3 MIGRATION/UPGRADE GUIDE

Post by monlike » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:51 pm

i think you are right.
many people have problem with upgrading

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Re: 2.5.x -> 3.3.3 MIGRATION/UPGRADE GUIDE

Post by wwtn » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:07 pm

mikerotec...

My bad for not actually clicking on your link in your original post before errantly posting the same one again in my reply post . Sorry about that!

No disagreement regarding the need for a clear and concise documented path for migrating from Joomla v2.5.x to v3.x.

However...

The migration process, while certainly not 100% foolproof, isn't nearly as tough as some would have you believe within the Joomla Forums. The greatest variable and unknown to updating or migrating any Joomla installation to a newer version, is simply the million different possible variables associated with added Joomla third party components and/or a non-core Joomla template.

That's why you see so much discussion about the need to ensure that any installed Joomla third party extensions, are up to date and fully compatible with the latest Joomla release before taking the plunge to update or migrate. If no one ever modified their original core Joomla installation to include any outside third party extensions or a non-core Joomla template, then updates and migrations would be a no-brainer and virtually "foolproof". Unfortunately, that will never be the case and thus... Therein lies a major stumbling block for anyone attempting to write the perfect upgrade/migration guide or manual.

Anyway... It's unknown at this point what version of Joomla will be stable within the v3.x series when it comes to the EOL (End Of Life) for Joomla v2.5.x later this year. So anything etched in stone even now, may not be 100% applicable months down the road. While it's unlikely at this point that the Joomla v3.x series will be that much different than it is now, that remains yet another unknown and variable to deal with.

In the end, I think that you have to take these major series upgrades for Joomla with a grain of salt. In many cases, that we are personally aware of, websites that have been built upon either the current release (v3.x) or past latest version releases (v2.5x, 1.5.x, 1.0.x) of the Joomla CMS platform are up and running just fine.

We have many clients and they are all running different Joomla series releases. And, they're happy and just fine with their websites, regardless of what Joomla release their site is using. And yes, believe it or not, even for the few Joomla v1.0.x Joomla installations that some of our clients still have online... Those clients do NOT want to change or do anything with their Joomla installations. They believe in the old saying that, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Go figure...

Anyway... You bring up a valid point about better and more 100% certain documentation needing to be in place by at least Joomla v2.5's EOL. In the meantime, thanks to Leo and many others within the Joomla community at large, there are helpful online guides available. It's up to you to decide if the glass is half full versus being half empty in that regard.

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Re: 2.5.x -> 3.3.3 MIGRATION/UPGRADE GUIDE

Post by mikerotec » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:56 pm

The point is, Whatever 'upgrade to 3.x' entails - it's utterly NOT what the official upgrade documentation would lead you to believe.

To wit:

If you are currently running a Joomla! release on a server with PHP 5.3.10 or later, we encourage you to update immediately to Joomla! 3.3.3 via either the one-click update or the update downloads available at http://www.joomla.org/download.html.

Yeah... RIGHT! "One Click Update"??

Here is the kicker... on that same page it says "Note: Please read the update instructions before updating." OK, the page linked to by 'update instructions' isn't quite what you were looking for, but on there is another link which will take you to

http://docs.joomla.org/J2.5:Upgrading_f ... ng_version

Method A - Update Method (Recommended) - KIDDING?!?!?!?

This is a joke, as clearly the one-click upgrade FAILS on a vast array of installations. But this page gives no hint of the prep and workarounds actually required.

Frankly, that kind of totally misleading documentation strikes me as just plain unacceptable for a CMS system of this scope, with so many commercial enterprises depending on it. (Not just commercial users - whole industries of Joomla extension developers!).

Myself, I represent a small fragment of the commercial 'user' category, and when a software framework goes EOL - then it's ABSOLUTELY time to leave it behind. The security ramifications of unsupported CMS's are well-documented, and every single day I still get hundreds of scans on my servers, from numerous Chinese and Ukrainian bot-nets scanning for common CMS backdoors.

And lets face it, CMS's like JOOMLA - which in the real world are held together mostly with duct-tape and rubber bands in the form of numerous 3rd-party add-ons which can barely keep up with the continuous unrelenting progression of the CMS, which can barely keep up with the continuous unrelenting progression of the framework, which never seems to be able to keep up with the continuous unrelenting progression of the PHP language (ever looked at your PHP WARNINGS log?) - are inherently fragile systems.


When a company is holding personal and financial data for 30,000 users on their server... well, it just makes no sense from a business ( or liability!) standpoint to be running some old long-deprecated totally unsupported CMS, no matter how solid it may appear in terms of its outward performance.

If it ain't broke - that's one thing... but if it ain't SUPPORTED, it ain't SECURE!

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Re: 2.5.x -> 3.3.3 MIGRATION/UPGRADE GUIDE

Post by wwtn » Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:33 pm

mikerotec...

You know, you're an amazingly negative person. While I can appreciate your concerns, they simple do not hold up under real world realities. No Content Management System (CMS) is 100% bulletproof just because you have the latest version installed. Whether you use Joomla, WordPress, Drupal, or even some commercial CMS solution... Nothing replaces the need for sound security measures being put in place and adhered to.

Suggesting that "this is a joke" or "are you kidding" would falsely lead one to believe that the Joomla core developers and community of users/developers are a bunch of negligent idiots. Hardly the case my friend and you expose your own bias and ignorance by making such unfounded accusations.

It's fascinating how anyone such as yourself can be so critical of an Open Source CMS which, in essence, is free for anyone to download and use. You should simply leave the Joomla platform altogether and find what you're seeking elsewhere.

And, I might add, in the future stay away from other Open Source community based software offerings, until you're able to embrace what Open Source software actually is. Perhaps you would be better off paying tens of thousands of dollars for some commercial "super" CMS, rather than participate in an free Open Source community based environment.

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Re: 2.5.x -> 3.3.3 MIGRATION/UPGRADE GUIDE

Post by mikerotec » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:31 pm

wwtn, you can think whatever you want about the developer community, but kindly do not indulge in the highly unsanitary practice of putting words into my mouth.

I have not called anyone 'a bunch of negligent idiots' - YOU HAVE. :pop


I'm simply expressing dismay at the state of documentation on this coding project. I posted my 'critique' here because I was hoping to gain some feedback from whoever actually might have been working on this - seems I just caught everyone at vacation time.

The "real world reality" is simply this - for a great number of people with healthy 2.5.x Joomla sites, blithely following the current 'official' upgrade documentation is going to be an exercise in acute frustration and disappointment. Have you noticed there are more than 1000 posts in this 'upgrade' forum? Not too many expressing joy at a smooth transition, but that's just life.

I'm going to volunteer to FIX UP the existing documentation - because (well-intentioned as it is) YES, AT PRESENT IT IS SADLY DEFICIENT.

But I'm optimistic it can be whipped into shape quickly :)

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Re: 2.5.x -> 3.3.3 MIGRATION/UPGRADE GUIDE

Post by wwtn » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:00 am

mikerotec...

Excellent! Glad to hear you're willing to tackle improving the Joomla v2.5 to v3.3.3 migration documentation. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I'm sure that will be a great asset to those seeking additional guidance and clarity with their Joomla migrations.

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