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Hi guys, Let me try to answer your remarks.

First of all as Hannes already explained for 1.5 we have clearly choosen to keep a 80-90% backwards compatibility rate. The major reason we are doing this is because we want to keep the transition from 1.0 to 1.5 fun and easy for third party developers. A third party developer should be able to adapt his extension with minor tweaks to make it compatible with both 1.0 and 1.5.

It's also important to recognise that 1.5 still is a minor release. We are skipping a few version numbers to show the drastic improvements and refactoring that has been done. However the database scheme and basic architecture are still the same as in 1.0.
A minor release should only break on the major features that are being implemented. For 1.5 the major feature is internationalisation, the introducing of the ini based language system and the move to UTF-8. We expect some breakages here. The rest of the refactoring and implementation of the framework should be backwards compatible as expected from a minor release.

What does this mean for the future ?

Well, basically 1.5 is a showcase of where we want to take the project. U could think about it as  our statement for the future. The concepts used in 1.5, the new framework, refactoring, ... are the groundwork for Joomla! 2.0.

What does this mean for a third party developer ?

We strongly advocate the use of the new framework when developing new or refactoring excisting extensions. A third party developer will be able to do this at his own pace. Learning and applying the new concepts. Those who do, will be ready for 2.0 !

Not really fair to say...
The developer could be very active in maintaining their project and could even be releasing updates more frequently than Joomla is currently and still have his project break because some function he relied on was changed by the Joomla Devs....

The Joomla Devs do as much as they can possibly do to keep developers informed on where Joomla is going and in what ways it will be changing in the next release yet it is still possible and likely that even with all this notification and forewarning a project you are currently using or working on can break about 30 seconds after you upgrade your Core system.

It is unfair to say well if it breaks the developer isn't staying on top of his project

It's difficult for any developer to try and chase code that is constantly in flux like Joomla is...And I don't blame them for possibly waiting until a stable version is released that they can test with before they start to correct problems with newer releases...

The truth of the matter is it is more likely that the reason a component or add on has broken is because the end user has not kept up to date on the latest versions of the project in question not because the developer of the project dropped the ball...

And supporting backwards compatability does not impede progress, it simply gives users a grace period where their site doesn't turn to mush while the developers of the add ons they use can work out any changes needed to make the project work under the new framework.

No one is suggesting that the backwards compatability should be maintained beyond the last major release...We are not asking for 100% compatability for anything ever written for Joomla but we are asking that whatever measures can be taken to allow an easy transition for end users from one major release to another so that the sites that use the product are not made to suffer the frantic need to upgrade every compopnent or perform multiple hacks to their add ons just to make the site work the way it did 15 minutes before the core was upgraded....

this is not always possible especially in this case where internationalization is concerned which is a major change to the framework as it is something that just about EVERY project ever written previously will break on or be unable to use until the project can be patched to use the new system.

and 80-90% backwards compatability is quite acceptable if you ask me and for those of us running sites in english only that probably is closer to 90-99% backwards compatible...But consider those poor souls who need multi language support whose system would be useless and break significantly...they might see a 90-95% breakage in their add ons and will spend at least a day or two to get their site up and running after the upgrade...

Backwards compatability is more for the end user than the developer if you ask me...
And we can't say screrw what breaks in the name of progress because in the end it will do MORE to hurt progress in the fact that if too much gets broken, no one will upgrade!

Look at what happened with Mambo not too long ago...
a Major change caused a lot of issues with components people were using and because of it they kept using an antiquated version of it to maintain compatability with the stuff they needed to use....
More recently how many people switched from Mambo to Joomla simply because their upgrade broke the Mamblefish component and made their site useless? Users were left to choose between Security patch or Multi language support! Stick with 4.5.2 and leave yourself open to the global get hack or lose multilanguage support?

So as I see it backwards compatability is not about the 3PDs at all it is about the end users!
I am very glad that the Core Devs are doing whatever they can to maintain compatability across major releases and my suggestion was merely a way to standardize the way that compatability is maintained.

If a particular component includes calls to a function in a file that no longer exists or has changed so much can not be used, at least temporarily and end user can hack that component to change the include to a standardized file called legacy.php that will restore the functions it needs...
That would simply be a bandaid until the 3PD could release a fix or someone else picked up the dead project to restore full compatability...

Jinx - Thats all great news and I think it should be noted how open, flexible, and ahead of schedule the dev team is in getting to the project everyone has dreamed of for years with true built in internationalization, Full ACL, and standards compliance!
the internationalization is a major step forward, the most difficult, and the most important step that needed to be done before the other features can be implemented. It will set the standards on one of the most difficult aspects of content output we face and with that done will make the drive to standards compliance much easier to integrate than it would be after the fact.

And to do it with an 80-90% backward compatability rate just shows how amazing this team is when they put their minds around a problem!

Good points, Asphyx. Backwards compat is mainly for the users, I agree. It also has been difficult for developers to keep up with the changes made to the core. Hopefully posts like this one and the new developer's portal will help us stay on top of things easier. We'll see how 1.5 changes the scene.

Thats an easy thing for developers with one component or mambot (which has less than 200lines of code!) but for some developers (like myself) rewriting 8 HUGE components with 1,000's and 1,000's of lines of code each is very difficult

When Joomla 1.1/1.5 is released none of my complex components will work on it and all wll need revisiting

For a professional developer as yourself it shouldn't be that hard, would it ?  ( wink added on request )

Jinx. At least add a wink, there!

There are only 24 hours in a day.

There are only 86 400 seconds in a day

Phil -

Maybe you could hire Jinx & co! Toss a little consulting $ at the devs! Then, they'd have $ for nourishment and could continue on building us free Joomla! software!

Just an idea!
me

they only have 86 400 seconds in a day too :-) and i'm sure they are busy too

probably! good luck guys! stay encouraged.

You rock, Jinx!

Mode note : post split to http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,50915.0.html