Joomla World Conference

[drocksvold]

Has there been any more news regarding this event?

[ooffick]

There is some information here:
http://events.joomla.org/all-events/24- ... -2012.html

But more information are coming soon.

Olaf

[drocksvold]

Olaf,

Thanks. I saw that, but it was added quite a while ago with a more news coming soon note on it... I was looking for more.

[Isidor]

Will it be a video with the conference ? because i'm interested to see what's new ...

I also want it, but can't find

[hamanaka]

I have discovered that the Joomla World Conference is breaking many of the Joomla Day/Conference charter rules and these issues should be addressed without delay.

http://events.joomla.org/joomla-day-charter.html

Conference Website

http://conference.joomla.org

[brian]

Sorry Mike but you are wrong.

You have a personal objection to this event because you wanted to be a sponsor of this event in exchange for being a volunteer and this was declined.

Move along - nothing to see here

[hamanaka]

Brian, that is rather short of response for a charter that has your name on the credits of.

Is a forum not the place to state these types of concerns?

Why would you insist others "move along" ? Are you discrediting my complaint?

Actually I just wanted to volunteer again, and that was declined. There is alot more to this story, but I really just wanted to point out that the Charter is not being followed by this event.

http://events.joomla.org/joomla-day-charter.html

[brian]

Mike - this is not the place to discuss private emails I would not wish to embarrass you.

From the Joomla Day charter - right at the very top

A Joomla!Day is a local, regional or national gathering of the Joomla! community.

Clearly the Joomla World Conference is neither local, regional or national.

I won't comment further on this.

[hamanaka]

Brian, please don't be short with me on this, possibly I am wholly wrong on my part, I would like to know. This is really not just about me individually.

I hear what you are saying that this Joomla World Conference is different then a Joomla Day event in it's naming.

Although in the Joomla Events Terms in Conditions it reads like this.

http://events.joomla.org/terms-and-conditions.html

Event Moderation

All Joomla Day and Joomla Conference events must comply with the Joomla Day Charter.


You are saying that the Joomla World Conference is not a Joomla Conference or a Joomla Day, and that it does not need to follow this JDay Charter, as we are learning.

Some content updating may need to occur to avoid ambiguities.

[hamanaka]

Ultimately I think that it is early enough in the planning of the event, that changes can be made so that the Joomla World Conference can better adhere to the JDay Charter, or that a new charter can be developed specifically for the World Conference.

I appreciate your time Brian.

[rdeutz]

I have discovered that the Joomla World Conference is breaking many of the Joomla Day/Conference charter rules and these issues should be addressed without delay.

Please post a list of rules the JWC breaks and why do you think the JWC is breaking the rule.

[hamanaka]

Robert,

I'll summarize the text by pasting lines here which are relevant and why.

1. Joomla!Day Definition

A Joomla! Day is an event open to everyone, and the only fee charged should be that necessary to cover costs. Joomla!Days should not used as a commercial enterprise for profit raising purposes.

I feel that the Joomla World Conference has published rates for attendees and sponsors which are extraordinarily high, that those fees cover more than costs of this event, and that the event is being used a commercial enterprise to generate profit.

The budget for the Joomla Day West a nearly identical event was published. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/j ... Dd3Ra-N80J

The fee structure stated does not make sense in my opinion.

2 Application and Rules

2.1 Organizing Teams

...If a new organization team wishes to take over responsibility of the following year's Joomla!Day we will contact the original team to ensure it is not interested in organizing the event. If the original team is not interested or a renewal application is not sent in time then the a new team can take over organization of that country/region/city's Joomla!Day event.

Not all of the original organizers of the Joomla Day West were contacted to ensure their dis-interest in involvement. While their are many caveats here, including the thought that this is a first time event, it is reasonable to assume that the original organizers of a very similar but differently named event may want to at least participate in organization of the event, as stated in the charter.

2.4 Financial Rules

A major requirement for the approval of your application is that the event is not designed to generate profit.

See above response my arguement regarding both admission fee and sponsorship rates.

It is up to each organizing group to determine whether to charge admission and, if so, how much to charge. Because of the nature of the events, we recommend finding a free or inexpensive location and not to make complex contracts with space providers.

I don't believe that due diligence was performed in the location selection of the Joomla World Conference, and that if the current space is going to be provided at no cost, that the admission fee should reflect that.

2.5 Legal Issues

Joomla!Days are organized and controlled by local event organizers who are solely responsible for all actions and liabiilities in association with the event. Neither Open Source Matters nor the Joomla! project is responsible for the actions or expenditures of local organizers. Local organizers are responsible for obtaining all appropriate insurance, permits, and other similar items.

Without taking this statement out of context, I have not received knowledge of any local event organizers in California or the Bay Area, as the organizers of even a World Conference which follows the charter should have at least some local organizers.

3 Organization and Structure

Generally a Joomla!Day should be focused on local people and companies. Make your organization as simple as possible. A highly sophisticated event is not what people expect. Community interaction and collaborative learning should be the focus. The main thing the people are looking for is a place to meet each other in person and to get to know other Joomla! users and contributors.

Following the charter, even though this has been named a "World Conference" local people should not be disregarded. The statement of the highly sophisticated event being not what people expect only lends itself again to the incredibly high published admission and sponsorship fees.

3.1 Activities

You are free to determine the topic, range of activities and structure of the day. We suggest you include time for people to talk and chat about what's going on in the Joomla! world both globally and locally.

This is merely a suggestion for the activities of a chartered event, but these words lend strongly to my opinion, and I hope mention now that this should be considered a healthy discussion.

3.2 Exhibition / paid workshops

During an Joomla!Day event sponsors may pay for exhibition space orclearly labelled presentation slots and with that help to reduce the entrance fee for the audience or expenses for the organization holding the event.

Special interest workshops can be organized and might have a separate fee. One idea is to create one day which includes special workshops or training and charge a higher fee for that day. The income of that day is then used to organize the community day and reduce the entrance fee for everybody or to finance refreshments.

While sponsorships are offered and rates have already been published, the sponsorships do not appear to reduce the attendance fees.

Conclusion: Either a new charter should be created for this particular event or the event should be modified to adhere to the charter to reduce damages to the local and global community members who are expecting OSM of all entities to at least follow their own charter.

Overall I feel that this event while boasting a rather large potential attendance, is actually a rather exclusive event rather than inclusive based on the above stated issues.

Thank you for taking the time to review

[rdeutz]

Mike,

I post my answers between your lines.

First you need to understand that this isn't a JoomlaDay so not all the rules we have for JoomlaDays apply to this conference. Although we will following the underlying concepts we have for JoomlaDays when it makes sense.

Robert,

I'll summarize the text by pasting lines here which are relevant and why.

1. Joomla!Day Definition

A Joomla! Day is an event open to everyone, and the only fee charged should be that necessary to cover costs. Joomla!Days should not used as a commercial enterprise for profit raising purposes.

I feel that the Joomla World Conference has published rates for attendees and sponsors which are extraordinarily high, that those fees cover more than costs of this event, and that the event is being used a commercial enterprise to generate profit.

The budget for the Joomla Day West a nearly identical event was published. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/j ... Dd3Ra-N80J

The fee structure stated does not make sense in my opinion.

It is a three day event what gives us around $60 to cover the cost of an attendee per day. The overall budget is planned to be revenue neutral. Your feelings are wrong.

2 Application and Rules

2.1 Organizing Teams

...If a new organization team wishes to take over responsibility of the following year's Joomla!Day we will contact the original team to ensure it is not interested in organizing the event. If the original team is not interested or a renewal application is not sent in time then the a new team can take over organization of that country/region/city's Joomla!Day event.

Not all of the original organizers of the Joomla Day West were contacted to ensure their dis-interest in involvement. While their are many caveats here, including the thought that this is a first time event, it is reasonable to assume that the original organizers of a very similar but differently named event may want to at least participate in organization of the event, as stated in the charter.

As I said it isn't a JoomlaDay, not every event that happen in the Kodak theatre is a Oscars ceremony. We sat together in February as I was in San Francisco to had a closer look at the venue and I told you how I see the involvement of the local community. There is room for working together.

2.4 Financial Rules

A major requirement for the approval of your application is that the event is not designed to generate profit.

See above response my arguement regarding both admission fee and sponsorship rates.

It is up to each organizing group to determine whether to charge admission and, if so, how much to charge. Because of the nature of the events, we recommend finding a free or inexpensive location and not to make complex contracts with space providers.

I don't believe that due diligence was performed in the location selection of the Joomla World Conference, and that if the current space is going to be provided at no cost, that the admission fee should reflect that.

See my statement above.

2.5 Legal Issues

Joomla!Days are organized and controlled by local event organizers who are solely responsible for all actions and liabiilities in association with the event. Neither Open Source Matters nor the Joomla! project is responsible for the actions or expenditures of local organizers. Local organizers are responsible for obtaining all appropriate insurance, permits, and other similar items.

Without taking this statement out of context, I have not received knowledge of any local event organizers in California or the Bay Area, as the organizers of even a World Conference which follows the charter should have at least some local organizers.

3 Organization and Structure

Generally a Joomla!Day should be focused on local people and companies. Make your organization as simple as possible. A highly sophisticated event is not what people expect. Community interaction and collaborative learning should be the focus. The main thing the people are looking for is a place to meet each other in person and to get to know other Joomla! users and contributors.

Following the charter, even though this has been named a "World Conference" local people should not be disregarded. The statement of the highly sophisticated event being not what people expect only lends itself again to the incredibly high published admission and sponsorship fees.

Again it isn't a JoomlaDay and I personally don't see a reason why someone should say that local people are disregarded.

3.1 Activities

You are free to determine the topic, range of activities and structure of the day. We suggest you include time for people to talk and chat about what's going on in the Joomla! world both globally and locally.

This is merely a suggestion for the activities of a chartered event, but these words lend strongly to my opinion, and I hope mention now that this should be considered a healthy discussion.

3.2 Exhibition / paid workshops

During an Joomla!Day event sponsors may pay for exhibition space orclearly labelled presentation slots and with that help to reduce the entrance fee for the audience or expenses for the organization holding the event.

Special interest workshops can be organized and might have a separate fee. One idea is to create one day which includes special workshops or training and charge a higher fee for that day. The income of that day is then used to organize the community day and reduce the entrance fee for everybody or to finance refreshments.

While sponsorships are offered and rates have already been published, the sponsorships do not appear to reduce the attendance fees.

Conclusion: Either a new charter should be created for this particular event or the event should be modified to adhere to the charter to reduce damages to the local and global community members who are expecting OSM of all entities to at least follow their own charter.

Overall I feel that this event while boasting a rather large potential attendance, is actually a rather exclusive event rather than inclusive based on the above stated issues.

Thank you for taking the time to review

Thanks for your suggestion and I disagree with your conclusion. I think your statement and feeling comes form the fact that you are not accepting that we don't see that the offer you made is appropriate for this event. Or to say it simpler, we don't need what you are offering and we'll not accepting your offer just to make you happy.

[hamanaka]

Robert,

I appreciate your time in reviewing my concerns.

It is unfortunate that you don't see how you have disregarded the local SF Bay Area Joomla people who wanted to be involved and have been involved in what we have now established as a similar event but different event in the past. I am still looking to get in touch with any local organizers of the event.

I can see now that this is clearly a different type of event that does not follow the JDay and Conference event charter as expected, which is something entirely new, and that I may have been misled about my level of official involvement in this event during a few encounters with you in the past 4 months.

I apologize for making any assumptions.

[jwestley]

Hello Brian, Mike and others,

I am with the SF Jug and was the marketing director for Joomla Day West a while back where we successfully were able to get people there from all over the world.

I have to concur with Mike on this since we both were key organizers for Joomla Day West. The argument that new rules will be in place because someone decided that this would be a Joomla World Conference is interesting. Mike and I both met with Robert in March and were told we would not, and could not, be involved in planning or organizing this event with you all in this area. In fact he said we could "do a night before the conference thing...". This is not acceptable to our members, developers or sponsors in the Bay Area and beyond. The fact that I had the lists and marketing materials all saved from our last JDay West event is not of interest to you as organizers is just plain strange to me and my members.

In fact we were going to schedule a Joomla Day San Francisco again this year and were never told that this conference was happening during that process, even though you folks had been planning it for some time. You can imagine that getting sponsors and participants/presenters to come here twice is very difficult in one calendar year, which by the way is also a charter issue in my estimation.

A lot of energy has been put into building a membership in the San Francisco Bay Area of 500 members and putting great energy into sponsors, developers, events and workshops.

Mike and his family all came to sponsor and drive the daily tasks of the last Joomla Day West. He should be given some answers and be listened to as a valuable member of the Joomla community.

I have a meeting this week with Paul. I will mention this communication and other issues that I see are coming up regarding this event and how we have been "dealt" with by the organizers.

Also, this is an open community as far as we are all concerned and issues such as this, unless completely personal in nature, should be transparent. All we want is to work with you all on this event and for ALL of our knowledge and expertise to be available for putting on a great event. I hope that you can understand my perspective on this and help us understand why the Joomla World Conference has been organized in this way by people outside our JUG. I am sure that if all of us work together we could get many more people in seats than if we separate and do not work together. The dates will be a great challenge in putting this together and without Gunner being there that too will effect this conference.

Yours Sincerely,

[brian]

James - I will not discuss private emails here but you should probably speak to Mike

[jwestley]

Brian,

Okay, I will do that. But I agree with the original premise that he started on this thread. So I will consider starting a new thread for this.

Thanks,

James

[jen4web]

Wow, that's disappointing that the local JUG, which has successfully organized several events, is completely uninvolved with the JWC world planning. That does not foster any sense of community whatsoever.

If JWC displaced this JUG's opportunity for a Joomla Day, that's understandable, but JWC should include them in the organization of this event. Telling this JUG to organize a Friday night mixer is just blowing them off.

When I was manager of Joomla User Group New England, we organized four successful Joomla Day events. If JWC wanted to run in our area, we'd be thrilled -- but we'd expect to be part of the planning process, and we would scream if we weren't involved.

Rather than trying to shut this thread down, perhaps someone can explain why it's better to have the organizers based in Europe while not relying on local contacts who are willing to volunteer to help with this process?

[brian]

I wish people who chose to comment were aware of the full facts. Sorry but I am not prepared to publish private emails

[jen4web]

OK Brian, not disclosing private email is fair, but my comments pertain to what James stated in his post. That does not involve any private email.

Perhaps you can state your side of the story?

[brian]

Sorry thats not possible without disclosing private emails

[jen4web]

Why is the organization for the JWC happening behind private emails, and not in the open? I thought this was a community conference.

By stating what James had to say is all about private emails implies that this is about personalities and has nothing to do with community. I really hope that is not true.

[brian]

It doesn't imply anything of the sort.

[jwestley]

Hello Again,

I have no private emails with anyone in this organizing committee. What is the deal Brian?

Then you can email me directly if there is an issue I am unaware of.

Thanks

[Hils]

Putting aside any personal complaints/emails etc. Is this again a communication problem?

Suggestions:

1. Would it be a good idea for the JWC Events Team to let community know who they are and what responsiblities have been allocated to who?

2. Could this team work in the open on a google list? It could be read only. Organisation by hundreds just would not work. But then it would be in the open - there could be a people group for any discussion resulting from it.

3. ...and finally - if there is not already a rep from the SFO Jug - would it both be courteous and useful to have at least one representative from that JUG on the JWC team?

It will be a great shame if this escalates and isn't solved. It should be a fabulous event!

[brian]

I wish people who chose to comment were aware of the full facts. Sorry but I am not prepared to publish private emails

[hamanaka]

Brian, I don't know why you keep bringing up private emails, I never sent you any private emails nor did I intend for you to be a recipient of any private emails I have ever sent, why would you try to invent additional mysterious and secret facts that you aren't prepared to divulge further than you have already inside of this thread. These short responses by you are adding to the frustrating nature of the organization of this global event. Further I am not impressed with your threats in this thread to embarrass me, this is a community issue if you have nothing to add to this discussion why post any reply at all? You already promised you wouldn't comment (or in this case troll or subtly attack) further on this, but you continue to defend some sort of hidden truth. At this point we know your opinion and position. Adding your trademark short responses is creating a level of tolerance in this community for such unfriendly communications of exclusivity.

[Hils]

Putting aside any personal complaints/emails etc.

My suggestions have no connection with private emails do they? A constructive reply would be useful.

Can we concentrate on the bigger picture?

[AmyStephen]

Suggestions:

1. Would it be a good idea for the JWC Events Team to let community know who they are and what responsiblities have been allocated to who?

2. Could this team work in the open on a google list? It could be read only. Organisation by hundreds just would not work. But then it would be in the open - there could be a people group for any discussion resulting from it.

3. ...and finally - if there is not already a rep from the SFO Jug - would it both be courteous and useful to have at least one representative from that JUG on the JWC team?

It will be a great shame if this escalates and isn't solved. It should be a fabulous event!

I think that's a really good list, Hils.

One suggestion would be to open a new thread and post it, again, and maybe link to that for those who are interested in talking to Robert about this first ever Joomla World Conference.

I wanted to congratulate Robert on this event. For as long as I have known Robert, having an official Joomla World Conference has been a really important dream of his. He gave a talk at the first JAB and said the following about goal setting in a community:

Stay positive.
Be friendly.
Focus on your goal.
Nothing can stop you from doing good things.
(And, most importantly) have fun!

Those comments have stayed with me and will be one of the most important lessons I learned in all of my experiences with this community.

I agree, Hils, this should be a fabulous event. Congratulations to the Joomla Community (and especially to Robert.)

[rdeutz]

I think they are some things I need to say. I will give my best to let all emotions out of this.

It is ok to make an offer and Mike made us an offer about what he'll do for the JWC, there was also a price tag included, but that is not so much important. We don't have a need for what he offered and told that. I think up to that point this is a normal procedure. We get and we make offers sometime it works sometimes not. Mike position and I think James has something simular in mind is (correct me if I am wrong):

He (they) volunteered (and sponsored) for an event called JDayWest 2010, therefore he/they have the right to be on the team for any Joomla event in the same area or location and deserve the right to be involved in they way he/they think it is appropriate because of this work he/they have done.

I don't think that is a valid position. We are volunteers. This mean we volunteer and do not expect any rewards, only to do good for Joomla!. Being a volunteer does not give us exclusive rights for whatever in the future.

As I was in San Francisco and met Mike and James I told both how I see the involvement so my position can't be a big surprise. Furthermore I think that involving the local community to welcome the attendees is a great chance to show how friendly and nice the people within this area are. There is nothing bad and that is also a job local people can do very good because they know the area. Maybe that is nothing you (Mike and James) like to do, ok I can accept that. But I would be happy to get ideas from you what can we do in this area, it is not limited to a "Welcome" or "PreEventParty".

Some words about how it is organized and why this way. Firstly I am responsible for this event so I think I have the right to organise it in the way I think it has the best chance to be successful. We have a small team of people and anyone has an area he is working on. I have a lot of trust in that team and in any of the members, because I know them sometimes for years. We don't communicate so much we all know what we have to do and we work on that. This type of organization works very well when everyone is doing his job. I did it in the same way for the last three JAB and it worked very good. I think one of the key points is to give people freedom and trust, we don't need job titles we need passion and enthusiasm.

Finally the list of the team members because Hils ask:

Robert Deutz [lead], TJ Baker [Social Media], Martijn Boomsma [Sponsoring], Ronni K.G. Christiansen [Website], Kyle Ledbetter [Design], Jon Neubauer [Communication], Brian Teeman [Program/Speakers], Jeremy Wilken [Video Documentation]

I hope I could put some light into this.