Major bug in the changes to item id's - 1.0.12

[roko]

You can implement the hack that I described earlier if you would like the old behavior.  You will not have to hack it after every new release because this is the last release in the 1.0.x series.  The behavior of Itemid in 1.0.12 is like the behavior in 1.5, that is what the future will hold.  If you don't like this behavior, you probably will not like the way Joomla! 1.5 works and the hack I describe above will not work on Joomla! 1.5.

I have just switched over from Mambo based on my analysis on the Mambo vs. Joomla future.
If what you say is true, I must say that I was wrong about Joomla being THE winner between these two.

Hopefully, you will find time to rethink this decision which will affect how many current users look at Joomla.

I must say - how can you look at URL changes as a good thing, is beyond me.
I have a 4000 unique visitors and thousands of articles site, layout is largely based on modules position.

If there is not a way too keep my URLs (btw, I print my URLs in promotional material) and current behaviour of articles and sections, I am quite stuck.

PLEASE reconsider at least a configuration option that would allow users to use Joomla and keep their current layout and content.

Thank you.

Regards,
Roko

[AmyStephen]

Roko -

Have you implemented v 1.0.12 on a development environment to assess specific changes? I am certain, given specifics, we can help you figure out exactly how to make Joomla! work for you.

Right now, what you are saying is too broad -- there is nothing that can be done to help because there is nothing specific that you are struggling with! So, if you haven't already, please fire up v 1.0.12 with your database and see if you are really unhappy. And, if you are, then let's have examples and URLs of the way you want it and how it's no longer right. Then, we can help!

I've been posting on this thread and another ItemID template thread since 1.0.12 came out, to my knowledge, everyone has been able to make this work in some way! I don't think things are as gloomy as you might think. I hope that makes sense!

One little favor - I came to Joomla! after the Mambo split. I know and appreciate people working on Mambo and I am a Joomla! fan. Let's not pit these projects against one another. Both are doing valuable work for the world and have great folks dedicated to good things.
Amy

[roko]

Amy thanks for your answer, I really appreciate your dedication and customer realations skills.

Yes, I have switched to Joomla 1.0.12 on a developement site, my live site is still running on Mambo 4.5.
The cost so far is my 4 days spent for switching and setting up, and the cost for a new commercial template. Not much, and I can live with that if I do not decide to use Joomla in the end.

I have used the "hack" as posted by Rob, and my developement site is now functioning as I expected.
What scares me at this moment is that the roadmap does not include an option for this from 1.5 onwards.

I really appreciate the work being done in the OpenSource community of Joomla, I myself am also an OS contributor on other projects. But so far, as far as I understand this decission on behalf of Mambo architects, it will be a show stopper for me.

I really want my articles to display as I want them, that's just it 

Regards,
Roko

[AmyStephen]

I have used the "hack" as posted by Rob, and my developement site is now functioning as I expected.
What scares me at this moment is that the roadmap does not include an option for this from 1.5 onwards.

Nice answer, Roko. And, thanks for your work contributing to open source.

First of all, I'm not a developer and I don't even talk to the developers. So, take what I am saying with that firmly in mind.

The problem with the Frontpage "read more" links is any article can be included in multiple menu items. An article can also be included on the Frontpage and not included anywhere else. So, determining where the "read more" should link to is a bit of a guess since we never specify the "default link" in our configuration. Also, it would incur some read overhead that would only result in a default "guess" for multiple options. Rob's hack puts back the guess. For most implementations, it is probably good enough.

What we can do purposely as Joomla! Administrators is create separate teaser articles (copies of the introductory section of the real article) for our frontpage and "fake" the "read more" links to point exactly where we want those links to go. That would allow you to "display your articles as you want them" but, it would take a bit more work every time you change your Frontpage.

Hopefully, v 1.5 is nearing completion. They are working towards Beta 2. They have been feature frozen for awhile, now, so, a hack will likely be required in v 1.5 to achieve this guess, again. Getting to one URL per article is an obvious goal. This will not change significantly until v 2.0 when the data model is changed.

I realize nothing I said changes anything. I hear what you are saying. Many others feel the same. I am quite certain that message is getting through to the developers - they are a bit limited by the architecture right now, but I am quite certain they hear and understand.

Thanks for your kind and understanding response,
Amy

[oryxxt]

In continuing this thread, when I was developing my site in .11, the site had the functionality such that when you clicked on an item's title or "read more" link on the frontpage, it would refer to the section's itemid, and use the template designed for that section, as designated for the menu item pointing to that section from the main menu.

The issue is that now on .12, it uses the frontpage assigned template to display the article, which really doesn't work well with the way I've designed the site.  Is there any way to hard assign the itemid of a given content item?

I was reading through the thread up to this point, and I don't believe that anyone has mentioned such a solution yet.  Sorry if I've somehow missed the solution already given... tis quite a thick thread!

Many thanks,
Josh

[AmyStephen]

...tis quite a thick thread!

Indeed! That is true. And equally as fun to read!  :P

Regard proposed 'solutions': RobS provided instructions to do your own hack to return to Joomla! v 1.0.11 Frontpage "read more..." ItemID selection .

Good luck, Josh!
Amy

[oryxxt]

Many thanks for pointing that out Amy.  I did notice that particular hack on the way by... however, is there a way to ensure that it might only affect frontpage content links and none elsewhere?  It appears as though the rest of the site still functions perfectly in .12, and it would be great to determine a "hackless" method to solve the issue as it has arisen.

Much as CSS hacks make such a mess for us later on as designers when certain browsers gradually get their bits together, I fear the same result for hacking the code in Joomla... undoubtedly functionality will continue to improve, and relying on a hack could make a bigger mess in the end...

Thoughts?

Take care,
Josh

[AmyStephen]

Josh -

I agree completely - I try never to hack the code.

I suggested this in the post, above, as a work around.

What we can do purposely as Joomla! Administrators is create separate teaser articles (copies of the introductory section of the real article) for our frontpage and "fake" the "read more" links to point exactly where we want those links to go. That would allow you to "display your articles as you want them" but, it would take a bit more work every time you change your Frontpage.

That is the only other way I can think of to force the URL to the article without changing the code.

Best of luck!
Amy

[oryxxt]

That is the only other way I can think of to force the URL to the article without changing the code.

I think that's the way I'm going to go about it, since future releases will likely continue in this direction.  Maybe someday this will all change completely and we'll have a newer and better model.  I realize that there is a lot of history behind this project, and that decisions made early in the process have major implications later on.  As someone with only basic coding skills, it boggles my mind...

Thanks for your help,
Josh

[AmyStephen]

Josh -

Thank you for your positive attitude. I'm pretty blown away by Joomla!, too.

Hope to see you posting here more often!

Take care,
Amy

[roko]

A few pointers from my side, just to sum up what many others have said

- As a developer/architect myself, I understand the issues with the old architecture and multiple menu links per article, which imply the need for "guessing". But, by just removing the feature to link a frontpage article with its section (layout), you did nothing more than make many users very sad  You can not fix architectural issues by simply removing features from the final product. This is done by careful refactoring with architecture AND user needs in mind.

- As many users, I see the need for a defined layout per article - a must. This can be achieved in a couple of ways
a) The old way, i.e. itemId points to a menu item. If there are more than one menu items per article, use the "first".
b) Allow users to specify an itemId per article upon creation. Even better, allow this per category and section.

Once again, I urge the Joomla seniors to consider these voices coming from the community.

[spartanking]

This is a major bug. it has effectively destroyed a website of mine. I've been pulling my hair out all day. why would the front page "read more" or "title" links not point to the archived articles?

Please help me fix this problem.

thanks for the hack, thank god for you

[AmyStephen]

Sounds like you are okay? If not, let us know!

Amy

[ljk]

I tired Rob's patch and it fixed some of the module Itemids but, not all of them. Still one of the modules is showing 1 for the Itemid instead of 54 like it should. The other 3 modules that were showing 1 for the Itemid now are the 'correct' Itemid.
Anyone else have the problem that not all Itemid's got fixed?

The biggest problem that I have with this change is that now when I click on the Read More link from the frontpage, the page that it displays does not have the correct pathway/breadcrumb, only Home is shown in the pathway field instead of the correct path.

I could use the template 'fix' instead of the patching of content.html.php if I could get the pathway to show the correct path instead of just showing Home.

Anyone 'fixed' the pathway problem? Or have any other suggestions to get around this?

Thanks.

[AmyStephen]

Sorry for missing this, earlier!

I tired Rob's patch and it fixed some of the module Itemids but, not all of them. Still one of the modules is showing 1 for the Itemid instead of 54 like it should. The other 3 modules that were showing 1 for the Itemid now are the 'correct' Itemid.
Anyone else have the problem that not all Itemid's got fixed?

Does this reported "possible" bug seem to be the issue you are dealing with? .

The biggest problem that I have with this change is that now when I click on the Read More link from the frontpage, the page that it displays does not have the correct pathway/breadcrumb, only Home is shown in the pathway field instead of the correct path.

I could use the template 'fix' instead of the patching of content.html.php if I could get the pathway to show the correct path instead of just showing Home.

Anyone 'fixed' the pathway problem? Or have any other suggestions to get around this?

Thanks.

I believe this is the same issue that has been discussed by a few people - but, it's hard to explain it in a way that everyone recognizes it.  What is happening is this -- the content items on the frontpage are being treated as though they are frontpage menu item articles. Thus, the ItemID = 1 is bringing with it the breadcrumbs, modules, templates, etc., that go with ItemID = 1.

There are three ways to address this 1) apply RobS's hack; 2) use the template changes to hide modules (in that case, it is still treated as frontpage news, but you can hide modules on read more); 3) create "mock-ups" of the article and your own "faked" read more.

Good luck!
Amy

[franco]

I have learned a valuable lesson:  try before you buy.  My confidence with Joomla so high that I did not test the upgrade on a mock site before I implemented it on a paid client's site.  Big mistake.  Thanks to Rob's hack, I was able to get things back to normal after 4+ hours (but not until after I deleted the whole site, reinstalled a back up running 1.0.11 then saw Rob's hack, so upgraded back to 1.0.12 and hacked the file per Rob).

My sites depend upon the ability to assign different templates to different sections.  Frontpage items necessarily must be presented in the template the section the item belongs to uses.  However, if this cannot be done with 1.5... All I can say is... am scared.

[roko]

Could the moderators perhaps rename this topic to "Frontpage and itemID changes and discussion in 1.12" and set it as a sticky. I think it is important that users see this thread, and maybe together with the developers, we can find a solution.

[boofka_99]

Question about the hack:

I don't seem to be getting the desired/expected result.

I am developing a site and I am using two templates at the moment for my site:

1) A two column (small left and large main content columns) version which is set to default.

2) A three column one for the home page and is assigned to the home page menu items as well.

On the home page I have links in the left column to content/news items but they are still opening using the home page template and Itemid.  I want it to use the default two column template for actual viewing the content when the link is clicked.  I thought the hack would address this.  Am I missing something...can someone point me in the right direction?

The site URL is:  http://www.peelpentecostal.org/index.ph ... e&Itemid=1

Any help is appreciated.

[Brenda]

Hi boofka

Looking good

In your instance it is the module you are using to display "news & announcements" causing the problem it's taking the itemid from whatever page you are on - navigate to any of your pages via top menu & see the itemid change in that module corresponding to the page you are on = that will also cause duplicate pages in SE.
Take a look at a different module - bkdisplaynews gets the correct itemid (I think flexcontent does too but not 100% sure - not used it for awhile)

check the url on "listen now" double //
don't forget to turn off javascript & check the site

modify
Here's the links to those 2 modules

http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/
http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/

[boofka_99]

Thanks Brenda,

Much appreciated.  I will check out the modules you suggested.

[peteb]

Whatever about the software architecture rights and wrongs, or the fact that this behaviour is more elegant, what seems to have been forgotten by the devs is that Joomla users don't use Joomla because of it's architecture or it's elegant code - we use it because it gets the CMS job done, and done well... except now we're faced with a situation whereby com_frontpage has effectively been broken.

I know a code hack has been posted. I know a template edit has been posted. However, I've yet to see anyone post a single reason why anyone in their right mind would want the article summaries on their site's homepage to point to anywhere other than the articles themselves.

Bizarre.

[AmyStephen]

Peteb -

I can tell you are frustrated, but, that was very rude, especially considering that was your first post.

If you have a need, let's hear it and you will find people will help. But, if you just want to complain that your free (as in beer and as in liberty) software is disappointing to you, then, I'd have to ask you -- what have you done for Joomla!?

That is disheartening, Pete, and I am uncertain what you hope that comment will accomplish.

Amy

[peteb]

Was I blunt? Yes. Rude? Ehh... no.  If you think that commenting on the fact that a key part of the software no longer functions in what its users consider to be a logical way is rude, well I'm sorry. 

Incidentally, an OpenSEF-related workaround touched upon earlier in the thread which *seems* to solve this problem for me is to view each newly published article via the news page before they're published to the frontpage. This allows OpenSEF to create the SEO'd URL linking to the actual article page, which is then automatically also used on the frontpage.

So have I earned the "right" to voice an opinion now?

[AmyStephen]

You are welcome to voice your opinion. That is not a problem.

What is rude is statements like "what seems to have been forgotten by the devs." That is just rude. It is particularly rude considering the software is free of charge and you have likely done nothing for the community, yourself, and, therefore, have no valid reason to feel so entitled.

Having said all of that, the most important point is that it does sounds like you have solved your problem. I am honestly happy for you, but not at all surprised. I know of no one who has not been able to resolve this for themselves using some technique.

You can feel personally affronted by my frankness or you can consider your approach from the perspective of the developers and see if you think you might have made your opening statement in a more eloquent and, yet, truthful manner.

Kindest regards, Pete.
Amy

[jaquesa]

Thanks RobS for the workaround. I thought my site was doomed to having unwanted panes on anything clicked from the home page.

Your fix works like a charm, I really appreciate it.

I am always amazed by the power of the internet to find solutions to obscure problems.

[dpogreba]

Rob's hack didn't seem to do anything for me...so I am stuck with a site that really looks pretty atrocious when a reader clicks on a link to a full article.

Is there something obvious a person could miss applying the hack?

[AmyStephen]

dpogreba -

Please see this post where several examples of how to hide modules in your site template for the "Read more" are addressed.

Thanks! Amy

[dpogreba]

Thanks for the reply, Amy.

I saw those suggestions the other day, but I think they might be a little over my head, though.

My site is this one:
http://www.intelligentdiscontent.com/

I have areas defined for inset, newsflash, and users 1-6.

All appear when I click on a story title or read more. I'm not sure how to translate those directions to make them all disappear.

Thanks for the time--and if this is a really obvious answer, sorry.

[denden]

Hey, as long as their fixes, I'm cool. 

http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg617835

[AmyStephen]

Thanks for the reply, Amy.

I saw those suggestions the other day, but I think they might be a little over my head, though.
...
Thanks for the time--and if this is a really obvious answer, sorry.

Not obvious at all if you are not used to working with templates.

Please do me a favor and post your template's index.php file (renamed as index.txt) in http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg629195 > and I will look at it and try to give you ideas on what to do.

It's not simple, but it's not terribly difficult, either, once you can see what to do. But, let's continue that discussion in the other thread.

We'll get there! Thanks!
Amy

PS - Good luck Denden. Please post if you have problems or questions.