Joomla! Discussion Forums

Louis -

If it is at all possible, what would be very helpful is a variable or function that can be used within the template to replace the functionality of the $option variable. That'll put us back to good.

Thanks, Amy

My apologies for posting twice in a row. But, I just now saw this post from Johan which will be helpful for those working with v 1.5 who want to show modules *only* on the Frontpage, but not on the "read more..." for articles clicked from that location.



For the ItemID fix that is causing Frontpage Module issues, we are absolutely able to overcome this using the $option variable in the 1.0.12 release and the above option for v 1.5.

Thanks!
Amy

Thanks RobS for your detailed explanation. This helped me understanding the issue (which I also posted on the wrong thread before).
But, as far as I understand you, ItemId changes with the menu. Not with the module "latest news" or "popular" link.
My just updated site
http://holger.euhm.de/cms
doesn't behave like this. Some links in these modules are ItemId'd 1 (which is different to Rev. <= 1.0.11), some ItemId's are > 1, but different to the menu ItemId, if there is a menu entry.
On your sample page I see on all "popular" and  "latest news" links ItemId is set to ItemId= (without number).
So clicking on the links in these modules always shows the same layout. This is ok for me at the moment.
But on my side some module links have the right modules and the "popular" and  "latest news". Others don't.
This is not what I like. Are you really sure that the ItemId behavior is ok that way?

Thanks.
Holger

Another confused 1.0.12 user.....

I've read the posts, and have 2 issues that seem directly related to this thread, if I can throw them in for feedback...

1) Why are the default/demo Joomla installed TopMenu and MainMenu links defined as url item links to item id's rather than links to components (frontpage, links, contacts, search, news) or Lists (catagory or Section).  eg The 1.0.12 install with demo data has the Home menu item is a url link - shouldn't this be a link to the frontpage component ?  I've always wondered why this was so, but now that the itemids behaviour has changed, I really would like to know what is the correct way for menu links to be configured, versus the default/demo install way.  url links to item ids, or link to catagory/component etc.

The reason for asking is prompted after installing a new 1.0.12 site and setting my menus (TopMenu and MainMenu).  My site became completely un-navigatable.  The default index.php site entry went to an invalid "user only" submit web link page, not the home page.  I presume this is related to the itemid changes after I edited the menus....  Appreciate if someone could respond with how the index.php launch page logic works, and how it can get so out of wack due to menu item changes.  I would have expected the default index.php to always launch the frontpage component, but this is apparently not the case?

2) My selected display modules (news, polls, popular, etc) associated with menu items for TopMenu and MainMenu items should be independant, but I am finding that this is not so...

Modules that I want displayed on certain pages are not always working, and I have to ensure that both TopMenu and Mainmenu have these modules selected.  I can't find any consistency in the behavior of modules from these two seperate menus.  Once again, it seems to relate to the changes in itemid functionality.  The home page initially displayed via index.php, is not the same as the homepage that results from clicking on "home" that links to the frontpage component.

TonyT -

It might be helpful to look at your website to help answer some of those questions.

Your first point, though, is an interesting one. If someone wants to avoid the several URLs to the same page issue, they can establish one menu item - get the URL - and use a URL item link any other time they want to link there. Thus, one URL, one page. So, thanks for raising that point.

Homepage does not *always* have to be the frontpage component, BTW.

For the rest, it would help to have the website and specific - click this menu item - here is what should happen - here is what does happen - and we can help figure it out one situation at a time.

Thanks!
Amy

Hi Amy

I've fixed my site on my local development server and will try and get it accessible from the public web.  The fix to getting index.php to load the correct front page was by deleting menu items, publishing and unpublishing both TopMenu and MainMenu, editing and saving and fiddling until it worked again... !!!

I can't say what it was exactly that sorted out the launch page index.php issue, but I feel that it is highly likely to be related to the fact that the TopMenu and MainMenu item changes where to different item ids than the default (fresh install) url link to item numbers.
I also suspect that menu item links arnt updated if the menu is "unpublished", so the cycle of unpublish and publish again seemed to refresh the item number links somehow.

- I'm still curiious about what index.php loads as a default frontpage after looking through the code.  I only see reference to MainMenu / Home.

Cheers,
Anthony

The front-page is the first menu item in the main menu.  Whatever that links to, is the front-page.  If it links to com_frontpage, then that is the front-page, if it links to com_contacts, then com_contacts is the frontpage.

OK - thanks.  So to recap, If I wasn't using MainMenu (only TopMenu), then I really need to make sure that the first item in MainMenu (whether published or not) is pointed at whatever I want the frontpage to be.  Right?

That would pretty much explain all of the anomalies I was experiencing - I didn't know that the first item in MainMenu was the reference point....  My quick look at index.php implied that was the case, but I wasn't sure.

Back to my original post, I posed the question about how to link to content from MainMenu and TopMenu...
Link URL, or Link to Component ?

Given the issue of multiple item IDs for any one content item, and the potential for errors if content is being added and deleted regularly, I would have thought that link urls to specific item ID# would have been a no-no....?

Cheers,

I did the same thing with my first website, I deleted the mainmenu because I did not understand the first menu item represented the home page to Joomla!.

So, yes, you must rebuild the mainmenu (name it exactly that -- all lowercase.) And, the first menu item will be your homepage. You can link to a component, like the Frontpage component, or you can link to a content item, doesn't matter.

Just to give you a heads up - the ItemID for the mainmenu has to be the value 1 for the first menu item. I am 99% certain after you recreate the menu/item, you will have to update that menu item using phpMyAdmin (or your favorite MySQL administrator) to be 1. So, create it - see what the ItemID value is - then update it to be 1.

You cannot have the mainmenu unpublished, it must be published. But, you don't have to display it in the template. You can assign the mainmenu module to a location (ex. "user1") that is not in your template. But, you have to publish the menu and the item.

Make sense? (she said hopefully!  )



You can't "link content" to a component, so, I am confused by that part.



It is perfectly acceptable to link a menu item to a URL within your Joomla! application. If you delete a content item, but you don't remove the menu item that has a direct URL to it, yes, that will cause an error.

Hope that helps!
Amy

Hi Amy

Thanks - that explains all that went wrong with my site.     Put that down to experience (lack) with Joomla.  I assume that publishing MainMenu, but having it assigned to NONE on the pages/items menu achieves the same as publishing it to an undefined position as well?

What I mean with TopMenu / MainMenu items is for setting up new menu items.  Please excuse the capitalisations to follow, but they signify Joomla menu titles etc...where I look at the menu items in the standard/default install of Joomla, all menu items are url links to the items.  When I created my new TopMenu and MainMenu, being a newbie, I didn't know the item id's to link to, so in MENU MANAGER on hitting the NEW item button, I selected COMPONENT and the FRONTPAGE component for my HOME menu item, and for NEWS I used LIST CONTENT SECTION item and steered it to the News Section, etc and so on...

I am assuming that because the menu link is created "via" the catagory/section or component, that it is less likely to be corrupted in future with content add/changes/deletes, than by using a straight URL link to get to the specific content display.  I don't have a great understanding of how the item ID numbers are generated, stored, refreshed, or updated over time such that the internal and external url links stay intact.  ... I could be barking up the wrong tree all together though

Tony - that should be another excellent way of doing it - better, in fact. Truthfully, I was responding to the word "publish" which means something specific in Joomla! - that the item (i.e., content, menu item, etc.) has it's "published" indicator on. So - your way of making certain the menu item is activated but not showing is indeed correct. But, in Joomla!'s terms, it must be published.



Tony - you are not wrong here. Yes, when you create a menu item - and you select a "content category blog" for example, Joomla! will generate an ItemID value, let's say 1, that is used for that menu item. If you delete and rebuild that same menu item, Joomla! will give you a different ItemID, let's say 2.

In the meantime, if you created a menu item with a URL pointing to ItemID = 1 and then forgot to delete it when you recreated it as ItemID 2, then, yes, you will have problems.

The benefit of the direct URL is that you could avoid multiple URLs to the same "page" using this method. Some of the folks in this thread wanted to do that because of perceived SEO issues. (Other people do not believe the SEO issues exist anymore, anyway.)

It gets down to choice. Joomla! offers you choice. One way is automated and you reduce your risk of errors with later modifications. The other way lets you control your URLs and you could avoid the multiple URLs issue to one "unique page."

Tony - it sounds like you are gaining a firm grip on Joomla! and how it operates. Now, all you have to do is get your mainmenu and the first menu item back in place, make certain the ItemID = 1, and keep it from showing on the frontend, and you are good to go.

Added benefit is this - you'll never, ever, ever delete it again. I know this because I will never do it again myself!

take care...Amy 

Thanks ever so much for your help - youre right - I definitely won't delete/unpublish MainMenu again 
- I'll stop hijacking this thread now, and let the discussion about 1.0.12 Item IDs continue.....(with interest)

Understood so far, but with the example site (http://love.mixbeat.com/hype3/index.php ... e&Itemid=1)
click on the 'read more...' link of Example News Iitem 1.
What was possible in 1.0.11 was to put another module on the 'left' because Example News Item 1 is situated in a section/category and there is a Menu Module defined for that)
This module could be assigned via the Page/Imtes. Since the 'read more' link has itemId=1 now, this will not work anymore.
Can anyone tell me how to achieve this in 1.0.12?

GGouweloos -

Please see this post < http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg629195 > where there are several examples of how to acheive that in your template's index.php file.

Thanks! Amy

I've read through this whole thing and I'm still a bit confused. I went to apply the hack mentioned on the first page and found that it was already there, has this been added to the download files now? I installed 112 using Fantastico.

Anyway I still get two different address if I link to an article directly from menu and click on an article from a content table list. I know you say that it's all for the better and this is how item ids work, but why would anyone want more than one address for the same page? Who could possibly be happy with that? Why don't other CMSs create duplicate URLs? Would it not be possible, in the future, to totally rethink the URL thing if this is the way we're heading, one page one address is the only way that makes sense surely?

Maljonic -

Regarding the installation - to my knowledge, the official release from Joomla! does *not* have RobS's hack applied. The rest of your questions appear to be more rhetorical - or at least wistfully posed, and, as such, I am guessing you do not really expect a response.

Take care, Amy

Anyway I can't get the duel id thing to not happen so I have to rethink the whole links thing, which isn't so bad I guess but isn't perfect. I have to make sure I only link to pages from one menu and make sure that all menu links to category tables hide links to other category tables to stop multiple URLs being made.

Maljonic -

If you are going to redesign your links, please consider making the direct link from one menu, as you state, then from other locations, use that URL when you create new menu items. So, if you create a Content Category Table menu item, make that the main set of URLs. From that point on, if you need to link to a specific content item, get the URL, first, through the established menu, and use it for the new menu item.

To avoid another URL on the frontpage, you could create "teaser" articles which copy the introductory text and insert a fake "read more" as a direct URL. Pain? Sure, but you, too, *can* avoid multiple URLs.

All of this gets lots of discussion - nearly everyone agrees getting permalinks will be important in the future. (and pretty URLs, SEF URLs, all of it!) This is currently not Joomla!'s area of strength.

According to Vanessa Fox from Google, there will be no penalty for having duplicate content (that is: having many URLs pointing to the same page)." < http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,121073.0.html >. To me, though, the multiple URLs to the same content item creates confusion when sharing links externally. That's more important than the SEF issue, especially in the world of Digg and Delicious and social bookmarking.

All the best...Amy

Thanks Amy.

I am concerned about search engines, and I do use SEF URLs. I'm more worried that someone will link to a page using a bad address that I later delete after I notice it. Say for instance I have dogs.htm but somewhere along the line my Joomla set up has also created dogs2.htm for the same page and someone links to that in the time it takes me to notice it, when I do notice it I will get rid of it if I can but then I will be creating 404 errors, which is not good for search engines and not good for people.

That makes sense in terms of search engine impact. Good point. Thanks...Amy

Hello friends,

Just so you know I love Joomla and I really appreciate all the work folks making this the #1 CMS.  Unfortunately with the template I'm using [ Rocket Theme's Sporticus - Jan07]  the hack doesn't work.  This is a problem for me since it greatly limits how I intended to use the template. 

The hack doesn't work for me either. I don't get multiple URL problems though on my content if I use Opensef, and I'm working with someone to get Joomsef to work this way too.

Amy,

I tried the hack that Rob posted and it didn't fix this for me.  I saw your $option code but am unclear as to where in the template to place it.  I assume you mean the template's index.php file.  Where in the file would this code go?

I am having the same problem with the modules that are assigned ONLY to the Home menu item appearing on content articles when clicking Read More off of the front page.  Please let me know what exactly to do with that code you posted. Thanks

Please see this post for that type of problem: < http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg629195 >. If you need help with template's index.php file, go ahead and post in that thread.

Thanks!
Amy

@Maljonic - good luck!

@MJelliott -

Please see this post, too < http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg629195 > to help you with the template changes needed. I also posted in RocketTheme asking Andy about changes to the template. It might be a good idea to also seek help there. He might want to repackage the templates given this change.

But - that post should help you get started. If you have questions - please ask in that thread.

Good luck!
Amy

I upgraded late, and this issue got me in the middle of the night. Ugh.

But THANK YOU, Rob, for the fix. *whew*

/c.

another 'thank you" to Rob. Updated yesterday, this morning the change in itemid came to my attention and made me think "oww, not again". As far as i know, did i have problems with changes in the itemid implementation in 1.0.11 en 1.0.10 releases also. Seems to become a reoccuring task after upgrading 

Hi,

I just wanted to suggest an alternative. I read this thread while trying to solve a different problem related to ItemID, and have not yet done the update to 1.0.12 on my primary site but this explains the differences I'm seeing in two other sites I'm working on.

It does sound like com_frontpage is, unfortunately, broken by this change. I agree that the ItemId changes are much needed, and it's been a bad situation.

However, here's a workaround (possible improvement?) I haven't seen mentioned yet. The OpenSEF component. I know it's been under a bit of development and may have even changed its name, but it can handle all this very well.

OpenSEF basically generates Search-engine friendly URLs based on the name of each content item. I have it mapped on my site to a URL structure of /category/title_alias. Whatever ItemId is used to pull up a content item, OpenSEF goes through a couple steps. First it rewrites it to the friendly URL. Then it rewrites the friendly URL back to an ID/ItemId combination. You can control which ItemId it uses through the administrative interface.

In other words, this component (combined with Apache mod_rewrite) has a clean way of addressing this issue, so that when you go to a particular content item, you always get the same modules, and can control which ItemId is used for the rewrite.

It's a very tricky component to use, but it can solve all of the issues raised in this thread. Haven't tried it yet for Joomla 1.5.

Cheers
John Locke

I tired this patch and it fixed some of the module Itemids but, not all of them. Still one of the modules is showing 1 for the Itemid instead of 54 like it should. The other 3 modules that were showing 1 for the Itemid now are the 'correct' Itemid.

The biggest problem that I have with this change is that now when I click on the Read More link from the frontpage, the page that it displays does not have the correct pathway/breadcrumb, only Home is shown in the pathway field instead of the correct path.

I could use the template 'fix' instead of the patching of content.html.php if I could get the pathway to show the correct path instead of just showing Home.

Anyone 'fixed' the pathway problem?