Criticism on lack of Documentation

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AllenQuinn
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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by AllenQuinn » Mon May 01, 2006 2:26 am

Hello everyone,

I use Joomla because the price is right, not because there is any documentation.  :P  I worked as a Software Engineer for IBM for 11 years.  And folks, IBM does business the same way as the Joomla team except IBM will lie and cheat their customer to satisfy the shareholder.  At least Joomla has the nodules to let you discuss it in the open.  I should also note that IBM Websphere Portal will cost you more than half a million bucks for a lesser product than say Joomla.  So who is the real dummy here?

I think the core developers could do a better job in writing the core documentation.  Afterall, it is they that:
  • Designed the Function
  • Wrote the code
  • Implemented the code into the design
  • Maybe they tested their implementation
So developers, what is a documenation project?  Since you did the aforementioned things to actually write the code, is it not YOU that are the EXPERT in this stuff?  What is the intended use of the product?  What is the stated use of the product?  What are the product's limitations?  What are the product's features?  How do you use the product both from an administrative perspective and a user perspective?  I know that all of you discuss these things with each other and are not out working blind.

So why is it that you SHUN your loyal community? Is it not this band of Joomla loyalist that keep your product viable and are out in the real world trying to leverage your coveted product to the commercial realm?  :o

Shame on all of you for being lazy programmers.    >:(

I am ok with your approach, but it does really say a great deal about the types of people you are.  I like your product and since having learned how to use it and having written 741 how-to documents on how to use it, I hope you are around for a long time.  And don't ask for the documents, they cost me a bizillion hours of work.  I could sell them to you for say $1000.00 each. 

Best Regards, Allen
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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by Jenny » Mon May 01, 2006 2:37 am

What is your evidence that people have been shunned?  Why are you trying to shame anyone? 

Documentation for the 1.5 release is being developed as the release is being developed.  There is a whole team working with the core devs to create this documentation.
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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by stimulus » Mon May 01, 2006 5:03 am

AllenQuinn wrote: I worked as a Software Engineer for IBM for 11 years. 
...
I think the core developers could do a better job in writing the core documentation. 
Programmers don't hold the primary responsibility for documentation at IBM or any other successful software business. Programmers generally provide information about the application to a tech writer, but if a programmer has the complete responsibility to write the documentation, I'd bet that the documentation would be pretty sad. Technical writing is a challenging profession that actually requires education and skill; it's not just something everyone can do well.

It's not a matter of being lazy programmers, it's a matter of them not being technical writers. They can't produce excellent documentation (on their own) any better than I can produce excellent code on my own. The problem is not that they are lazy; the problem is that Joomla (and most open source products) haven't found a way to attract enough great tech writers to their teams.
I like your product and since having learned how to use it and having written 741 how-to documents on how to use it, I hope you are around for a long time.  And don't ask for the documents, they cost me a bizillion hours of work.  I could sell them to you for say $1000.00 each.
Great technical writing is very time consuming. The industry average for a single page of software documentation is 2.9 hours. Considering the amount of time it does take, I think we have to find a way to make writing documentation for Joomla more profitable for the writers. Of course, I know there are tons of people who donate time writing code for Joomla and its add-ons, but many of them also do professional work writing commerical add-ons, configuring sites, and so on. Professional tech writers also have to find some way to profit a little from their efforts, or it becomes difficult to keep them involved and the documentation suffers.
Last edited by stimulus on Mon May 01, 2006 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by Jenny » Mon May 01, 2006 12:17 pm

Here is a link with some information on our Documentation Team.  http://dev.joomla.org/content/view/18/53/

I assure you they working extremely hard to stay on top of the documentation for the 1.5 release.
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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by AllenQuinn » Mon May 01, 2006 2:11 pm

Hi Everyone;

I agree with everyone's post to my message, but that does not make it work. 

Let's summarize for Stimulus.  IBM developers generally do not write their own Information Development Documents except for Readme and Release Notes.  True. 

It was said that the documentation would be very sad if the developer wrote the document.  Ask any Websphere Customer, the documentation is in fact "very sad" because it is not accurate and is not comprehensive.  The documentation is written by IDD people, or technical writers as stated, but the problem here again is that the technical writer does not have an uderstanding of how the individual components function and are designed to operate.  So they do not have the developer's technical information .

Also, you stated the technical writer would be in contact with the developer to get that information.  Stupid, think about what you said.  We all know you are going to correspond via a bbs, or email with a technical writer.  So you are going to basically have to write the stuff anyway.  See the point?  NOPE!  You want to do things 2 or 3 times, rather than do what needs to be done the first time.  Ok, it is your perogative.  Just not very logical.  It is easy to find the scape goat.  If you are commenting your code you are basically writing the core documentation.  I personally see the standard practice as being lazy.  As a developer I write my own documentation, then have a writer, either technical, or not review what I have written to "unit test" the doc. 

Ok, so we cannot agree.  It is ok, waste no more time with me.

As for the remark about shunning the community.  Thanks MMMedia.  Here is that response.

Place yourself in the potential customer's situation.  If the average end-user/customer cannot easily understand and use the Joomla product, why is the Joomla product being written?  Who will use the product?  Not everyone is a developer, and not everyone is technical guru.

This entire write the code, then the documentation philosophy is likely what prompted Joomla (Mambo) development long ago to create such a product in the first place.  So whom are the developer's serving?  The code, or the potential user of their creation?

So, when you write code and don't write the doc which is how the customer or user will be able to use your product, if you do not include the doc, they customer is shunned. 

Here is the definition for all. 

shun    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (shn)
tr.v. shunned, shun·ning, shuns
To avoid deliberately; keep away from. See Synonyms at escape.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English shunnen, from Old English scunian, to abhor.]


Joomla codewise is a great product and the developers have done a fantastic job.  Bravo Zulu.

The only remaining observation that I have is the it takes a developer that understands their role in this giant industry to realize that developing a product means developing all the facets of their individual components regarless of whether they think it is fun, or a good use of their time.  With all the messages in this forum and elsewhere, it would seem to me that the writing is on the preverbial wall. 

Love you all,  Allen
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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by DanielMD » Mon May 01, 2006 2:15 pm

Hum...

Warning: The opinions posted are my own personal opinions. And do not express official views of the joomla team(s).

Let me tell you guys a little story, I first downloaded joomla about 3 weeks ago, the installation went very smoothly, but i found it a bit hard to use at first, so i asked a few questions in the forums: where i could find tutorials? and documentation? A got a few answers and after one week i was very comfortable with the system, really liked the design, the themes, extensions, and above all the community.

I evaluated many CMS systems and the joomla community was the most helpful and even though the documentation was scattered and some outdated (most valuable information i found was almost always about mambo), I figured out with the help of the community how "stuff" works.

Week 2 i started doing some components, modules, plugins, and guess what? It is really easy, but with all the changes from mambo to joomla and from joomla 1.0 to joomla 1.5 I found the documentation not to be stable enough, if you know your xml, xhtml, css, javascript, php, then all you have to do is look inside of joomla and you can pretty much figure things out, but at the moment joomla documentation is not very newbie friendly, so week 3...

I looked at the joomla SVN repository and I pretty much know the technologies being used, agree with most of the design decisions, and have some time, so what i did was join the documentation team, and i tell you that they are truly the unsung heroes of the joomla community because they are doing such a huge effort but have so few resources (there is simply not enough ppl to document 109 classes and the many methods, proprieties, options, etc...), I joined the documentation team for 3 main reasons:

-To have better documentation, it is clear that the task is huge.
-To have a better understanding of the design decision and contact with the core team,
-To attract new developers, this is an open source project, documentation is important to attract new developers, and more important Enterprise developers that can help the project.

Now what all newcomers to joomla have to understand is that 6 months ago joomla did not exist, another thing you have to understand is that there is a new framework to document. The top priority in the documentation team at the moment is the API documentation, and with your help it could be done much faster, after that is done we can start to write tutorials, and other helper documents that make the newcomer life much easier.

Those that do not have the time or skills to join the documentation effort, should post specific topics (like some ppl did on this thread about installation troubleshooting topic) that you think should exist or should be improved (i know i have my list of documentation that i want to improve in the upcoming months).

So all of you that have the skills and time to document a dozen classes should join the project, you don't have to commit long term, this is Open Source people go and they come, but they can leave a mark, the mark i want to leave is better documentation, I want to make joomla #1 project in CMS documentation.

-Dan
Last edited by DanielMD on Mon May 01, 2006 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-> Documentation is the key to Joomla sucess if you have the time contribute to the Documentation Team
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Clarification of why I am so interested in this topic

Post by AllenQuinn » Mon May 01, 2006 3:31 pm

Hi again everyone;

I just wanted to take a moment and say thanks to everyone that supports the Joomla project.  My intentions are to offer up my time, my money and the results of the work I am doing in early 2007, or sooner depending on when my contributions meet my own quality standards and personal satisfaction.

Since leaving IBM I have not wanted to be put in the deadline, ship date grinder.  That is the only reason I have not made a single tangible contribution to the Joomla project.

I write my code and my own documentation as part of my philosophy that developing products is not simply writing code, but writing everything that relates to understanding and using what it is I have written.  That is my only agenda. I will do my utmost to give what I create for Joomla, to the Joomla community when I have the work completed.

So, again, thanks for allowing me to vent my frustration about the industry's general development philosophy, my development philosophy and why I think it is important to the end-user. 

I will share what I have learned with the intention of paying Joomla.org back for a great product, offered at a unbeatable price.

Sincerely,

Allen Quinn
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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by Jenny » Mon May 01, 2006 3:45 pm

AllenQuinn wrote: I will share what I have learned with the intention of paying Joomla.org back for a great product, offered at a unbeatable price.

Sincerely,

Allen Quinn
AllenQuinn wrote:
Shame on all of you for being lazy programmers.    >:(

I am ok with your approach, but it does really say a great deal about the types of people you are.  I like your product and since having learned how to use it and having written 741 how-to documents on how to use it, I hope you are around for a long time.  And don't ask for the documents, they cost me a bizillion hours of work.  I could sell them to you for say $1000.00 each. 

Best Regards, Allen

You have 741 documents at this time on how to use Joomla but you feel that you will not share them with the community at this time but in 2007, or sell them for $1000 each?

I don't quite understand what it is you are trying to say because it is quite contradictory.  As this is a volunteer effort, you would be under no deadline, you contribute as you can.  If you already have so many documents available why are you not sharing them?
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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by stimulus » Tue May 02, 2006 8:34 am

AllenQuinn wrote: Let's summarize for Stimulus.
Let's try not to be condescending.
IBM developers generally do not write their own Information Development Documents except for Readme and Release Notes.  True. 

It was said that the documentation would be very sad if the developer wrote the document.  Ask any Websphere Customer, the documentation is in fact "very sad" because it is not accurate and is not comprehensive.  The documentation is written by IDD people, or technical writers as stated, but the problem here again is that the technical writer does not have an uderstanding of how the individual components function and are designed to operate.  So they do not have the developer's technical information .
I don't know what an Information Development Document is, but from what you've written, it sounds like your talking about documentation that is intended for technical users. It's documentation that is geared for a technical audience, most of whom are developers themselves. Is that correct?

If that's the type of document that you're talking about, then I agree that developers have to have a greater role in writing the docs.

That said, docs for developers isn't the only type of documentation that most companies and projects need. For instance, IBM has lots of support docs on its Web site. This article describes how to troubleshoot common Bluetooth problems. You don't have to be the software or hardware engineer who developed something in order to write end-user docs like this. You may disagree, but IMO, these types of end user docs are better when they are written by technical writers than when they are written by developers. Developers tend to get too technical, use lots of jargon, and don't know much about audience analysis, information design, cognitive processing, and so on.
Also, you stated the technical writer would be in contact with the developer to get that information.
I said that tech writers at successful companies are in contact with developers and designers to get key information. The amount of information provided by a subject matter expert varies greatly, depending on the company and the project. The more technical the product and audience, the more information the developer has to provide. However, I wouldn't need anything from the developers to be able to create a fairly comprehensive "How to build a Web site in Joomla" tutorial that would show an end-user how to use Joomla to accomplish a wide variety of goals. While writing the tutorial, I could seek feedback from developers in order to cover more aspects of Joomla I overlooked, but it isn't necessary to creating a great resource for end-users. For instance, the author of "Windows XP for Dummies" likely didn't have any contact with anyone who actually wrote any of the core code of Windows XP.
Stupid, think about what you said.  We all know you are going to correspond via a bbs, or email with a technical writer.  So you are going to basically have to write the stuff anyway.  See the point?  NOPE!
 
I'm not a member of the core Joomla development team, so I don't write code for Joomla. Moreover, I'm not a programmer at all. I am a technical writer. I have my Bachelor's degree in technical writing, and I'm a self-employed tech writer, information architect, and usability consultant. I've studied enough computer science to equate to a computer science minor, but my programming skills are limited to HTML and CSS (and a little PHP and XML).
As a developer I write my own documentation, then have a writer, either technical, or not review what I have written to "unit test" the doc. 
Back to Jakob Nielsen's article that I referenced earlier - your perspective is a combo of his stages 2 and 3 in the importance placed on maturity. In stage 2, the design team relies on its own intuition about what constitutes good usability:
Sooner or later, most companies realize the value of making designs easier for humans to use. At this point, the most obvious (but erroneous) approach is for the design team to rely on its own intuition about what constitutes good usability.

After all, the team members are human beings, and they use computers and websites. Surely they know whether something is easy to use or not. The existing team members also have one huge benefit: they're already onboard and participate in every project meeting, where they're not shy about sharing their design opinions.

This approach works reasonably well for one class of design problem: developing tools, such as Web servers, for developers or other geeks. Open-source projects like Perl, Linux, and Apache have had great success with developer-centered design. But even these projects could have been better with more systematic usability input from people outside the design team. Programmers who work on Apache's guts have a deeper understanding of it than other technical experts who only want to use Apache, not hack it.

For projects targeting non-geek audiences, it's disastrous to rely on the design team's understanding of what's easy. Anyone working on a project knows much too much about it to represent outside users.

Luckily, the difference between a team member's conceptual model and that of average users is easy to explain. It's also an easy pill for team members to swallow, because you're basically telling them that they're too smart and knowledgeable to stand in for the average user.
His comments focus on the interface of software programs and Web sites, but I think his points apply equally well to documentation. The next two stages of usability maturity reflect your practice of having a writer "unit test" your docs after you've written them. Nielsen writes that at this stage, usability is viewed
as a magic potion that's sprinkled sparsely over a user interface to shine it up. The main usability method is user testing, which is invariably conducted late in the development process after the user interface has been at least partially implemented.
When a user interface is teste dlate in the develop process - or a doc is tested late in the writing process - all a writer or usability consultant can do is spruce it up a bit. It helps, but it could have helped a lot more if usability (of software interfaces or documentation) was considered, researched, and tested much earlier.
Ok, so we cannot agree.  It is ok, waste no more time with me.
Just to reiterate - I do agree that developers have a role on documentation projects. If the document is intended for technical users, developers have an even greater role to play. The point where we disagree though is the role the developer should have in writing docs for end-users. Some developers can write excellent docs for end-users, but because they know too much about the product, they often struggle to keep the right perspective when writing for end-users. Moreover, most developers just plain lack the knowledge and skills necessary to write great software documentation. Most don't know how to analyze an audience, perform usability tests, or design information so it can be easily understood.

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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by AllenQuinn » Wed May 03, 2006 1:32 am

HI MMMedia and Stimulus;

This conversation makes my stomach turn.  My  reasons for leaving the "mainstream" technology sector were many, but the main reason was this overall lack of focus on sound, usable documentation by software architects, designers and developers.  OK, we cannot agree.  I am going to keep reading the boards, but will certainly not add anything further. 

My focus is to provide my customer with a comprehensive portal solution that empowers them to add/modify/archive/delete web content of multiple uses.  This could be eCommerce, a General Blog, Supply Chain Management, Bookings and Reservations, Real Estate Listings or any type of product, or service. 

I guess what makes me sick, is the fact that no one wants to step up to the plate early in the game and get hit with a pitch, or hit in the head with the ball as they approach first base.  What generally happens is that the development stream moves forward in constant motion, the sales team is out selling a product that is great, but is not ready to be GA.  The support stream conversely is constantly caught in the middle trying to explain to the customer how the product is generally suppose to work. So, the question of warranty cost is where I am headed.

Is it more cost effective to hire a support staff to basically answer questions that are generally configuration related, customization related, or general how-to's?  Or is it more cost effective to write the necessary documentation and reuse that documentation over and over again to alleviate the need for a large support staff? 

The greatest benefit of using OOP is that many code segments are reusable without modification.  So, the fact that many of the code segments are reusable without modification creates less dependency on having to write everything from scratch, everytime.  Now, of course some things are not reusable, because of limitations in programming ability, design restrictions, or limitations, but mostly the code is reusable.  This saves development cost and makes the programmer more effective.

The problem lies in this lack of understanding, or unwillingness to treat the documentation in the same manner.  I do sincerely apologize for coming off as condescending.  Having mined everything off the forums back in November of last year and having read at least 80% of it, I chose not to contribute because of the conversation we are having today.

Having read so much and seeing the curt remarks in every forum by the core development team; I made the decision to hold my documents out until "I am completely satisfied with them."  When it is all said and done, I will likely have consolodated the 700+ documents down to the 300 range.  I have had to painstakingly try and follow each of these forum documents and make the required changes to the content complete with screenshots and the all the baby steps for the Mac, Windows, KDE, Gnome and the various browser behaviors on each.  So to say that I am going to give them away to an organization that obviously thinks they do not have the time to do them is ludicrous.

I will give some basic documents to the team when I am ready to do so, not before.  But as far as the detailed documents on everything from developing using the API to the many interactions, forget about those, they have become proprietary to what I need them for.  Thank God for the GPL.

I sincerley wish you all the best.  I will use Joomla until such time that I have what I need to further my own vision.  Thanks for all the hard work on the code, it really is very well done!  I cannot even begin to tell you how valuable the code is to me personally. 

Ciao,  Allen
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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by stimulus » Wed May 03, 2006 4:11 am

AllenQuinn wrote: This conversation makes my stomach turn.  My  reasons for leaving the "mainstream" technology sector were many, but the main reason was this overall lack of focus on sound, usable documentation by software architects, designers and developers.  OK, we cannot agree.  I am going to keep reading the boards, but will certainly not add anything further. 

My focus is to provide my customer with a comprehensive portal solution that empowers them to add/modify/archive/delete web content of multiple uses.  This could be eCommerce, a General Blog, Supply Chain Management, Bookings and Reservations, Real Estate Listings or any type of product, or service. 

Is it more cost effective to hire a support staff to basically answer questions that are generally configuration related, customization related, or general how-to's?  Or is it more cost effective to write the necessary documentation and reuse that documentation over and over again to alleviate the need for a large support staff? 
Allen,
I actually agree with you on many points. I, too, think a software application is only finished when the documentation is ready and useful to real users. I am, after all, a technical writer. When it comes to the importance of documentation, you're preaching to the choir with me!  ;)

I wouldn't work for a company that released a product without adequate documentation because it would reflect poorly on me as a tech writer, and it would indicate the importance they place on my job and skills. However, open source is different. For instance, it's unreasonable to expect that Joomla 1.5 won't be released as even an alpha version until the documentation is finished. Open source products get developed and documented by people using them, which requires that people have access to the product before it's finished. In a very real way, it's never finished; it's always a work in progress.

I understand that you want to profit some from your work. You don't have to tell me how many hours it takes to write documentation. I write a decent amount of Joomla help materials for clients showing them how to do specific tasks in their site, and, until I tell them, clients often how no idea how long it can take to write a doc.

That said, I don't understand why you're upset that the "organization" doesn't give away both the code and the kind of documentation you want, when you're not willing to do it either. The organization is also just a bunch of volunteers, giving their time. They shouldn't be expected to give 100 hours a week. Ultimately, they too have to work on something that pays, and I just don't think it's fair to criticize them for not being able to do everything.

Since we're not going to agree, this will be my final word. I just wanted you to know that I agree with you in regards to the need and importance of better documentation (and I'm looking forward to seeing what the doc team is up to!) However, I disagree with your criticisms of the core developers, as I don't think they are lazy or the lack of excellent official documentation is their fault.

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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by Michelle Bisson » Thu May 11, 2006 4:03 am

stimulus,
I write a decent amount of Joomla help materials for clients showing them how to do specific tasks in their site, and, until I tell them, clients often how no idea how long it can take to write a doc.
- stimulus
Have you considered helping out on the doc project?  Please get back to me if the answer is yes.
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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by stimulus » Thu May 11, 2006 4:09 am

Michelle,
We exchanged PMs recently about the doc team. You were going to have Richard contact me about the Help screens, but I haven't heard anything. I would try to contact him, but I don't know who he is.

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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by Michelle Bisson » Thu May 11, 2006 4:12 am

stimulus,

Thanks for responding.  Richard did not have time last week to contact you and is away this week.  I will send you a pm.
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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by severdia » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:16 pm

As a fairly new Joomla user, I'm not a stranger to PHP, HTML, CSS or similiar aspects. But learning Joomla has been VERY difficult for me even after reading the various pieces of documentation, buying the book and asking a few questions.

I don't think there's a lack of documentation, just a lack of good documentation. Let me elaborate on that before I get chastised by the hardworking documentation team...

All the documentation I've seen goes through the menus and explains each of the items one by one. That's helpful as a reference manual but of little use to someone trying to build a site in Joomla. I might as well be reading the phone book. I've seen the word "tutorial" tossed around but haven't really seen much in the way of real tutorials showing specific tasks most users might want to accomplish. The documentation is often very "techie" and doesn't always logically explain things (like the differences between components, mambots and modules), though things in Joomla itself aren't always logically structured.

Just like there are Real World Photoshop/Illustrator books that show real life examples, Joomla could use something like this. Create a ficituous website and explain step-by-step how it would be put together (add and customize an RSS feed, forum integration, installing components, etc.). This doesn't haven't to be a complex Flash animation or anything like that--just a list of steps (maybe with a few screenshots?).
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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by Michelle Bisson » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:07 pm

That's helpful as a reference manual
Our mandate of the General Documentation team is to write the User manual and Administrator manual.  They are in fact reference manual.  We don't have the personal manpower to go beyond that at this time.

We do encourage those in the community to write tutorials, especially newbie tutorials.  There have been some already written, just do a search on the forums and you should find some of them.

Maybe some others can point you in the right direction for these manuals.
Michelle Bisson, POPcliQ, http://www.popcliq.com
Joomla / OSM Trademarks Team Member

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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation - Wiki?

Post by roger_jg » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:08 am

This thread is getting long mabe i missed this but.. Why not having a Joomla wiki?

I would be happy to contribute to a Wiki each time I sort out one of my MANY problems... For instance I just find out that is is not enough to publish a Poll on all pages to see it but that the options should ALSO be published on all pages*. That's nowhere in the Joomla e-book and I did not find it here.

It would also avoid a lot of redundancy posting from newbies and encourage the people to develop a core documentation.

Best
~R

* I just wanted to add as an aside that it is rather strange to want to publish the "poll" on a specific page but not the question or the  anwer .... ???
Last edited by roger_jg on Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

AmyStephen

Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by AmyStephen » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:04 am

roger_jg wrote: * I just wanted to add as an aside that it is rather strange to want to publish the "poll" on a specific page but not the question or the  anwer .... ???
Took me a few minutes to understand...or at least think I understand...

Are you talking about Joomla!'s poll capability where you have to go to a different page for the poll results after voting? If so, and you really want to try to influence the behavior of the poll, there is a wish list you should use to describe - in as much detail as possible -- maybe attach pictures - of what you would prefer.

Thanks Roger! Amy

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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by roger_jg » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:48 am

a bit off topic but he...

No, i meant that if you want to have your poll on the home page and on another page lets say latest news, you have to publish the poll modul on both page (home and Latest news) and then edit your poll and make sure that the questions and options are also published on both page.

If you don't do that you end up with just  teh title of teh poll being published on some page but not the options.

That the answer are published on a different page is okay.

~R

AmyStephen

Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by AmyStephen » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:25 am

Got it - I'll look at that later and PM with you - thanks Roger!

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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by roger_jg » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:41 am

Is this thread dead?

So why not a Wiki where all of us would be able to contribute?

~R

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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by eyezberg » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:33 am

roger_jg wrote: a bit off topic but he...

No, i meant that if you want to have your poll on the home page and on another page lets say latest news, you have to publish the poll modul on both page (home and Latest news) and then edit your poll and make sure that the questions and options are also published on both page.

If you don't do that you end up with just  teh title of teh poll being published on some page but not the options.

That the answer are published on a different page is okay.

~R
I'd consider this a bug, haven't had this experience yet as I don't use polls much, but you should report this in Q&T for 1.0
Sometimes one pays most for the things one gets for nothing.
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. AE
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Re: Criticism on lack of Documentation

Post by roger_jg » Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:10 am

eyezberg wrote:
roger_jg wrote: a bit off topic but he...

No, i meant that if you want to have your poll on the home page and on another page lets say latest news, you have to publish the poll modul on both page (home and Latest news) and then edit your poll and make sure that the questions and options are also published on both page.

If you don't do that you end up with just  teh title of teh poll being published on some page but not the options.

That the answer are published on a different page is okay.

~R
I'd consider this a bug, haven't had this experience yet as I don't use polls much, but you should report this in Q&T for 1.0
You are a bit hard  ;)  it's a bad design issue  :P

~R.


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