Joomla! Is dying !

[khalilghenimi]

Yes, Joomla! Is dying because they has canceled the STS/LTS strategy, and they end of it because they cannot develop a J! X.5 with a high new functionality that make developers wait for it anymore.

IT is dying because they say that Joomla! 3.5 will out in March 2014 and we are now "Monday July 7" and it is not released yet, they say that it will be amazing and full of great functions and more and more...
HOWEVER, there is nothing!

joomla_roadmap.jpg

Peoples has no long confidence on it anymore, developers, designers, customers...

joomla.jpg

Peoples want to trust things, want to trust on what they work, wants to trust on the future of theirs Jobs, familly,... I am a Joomla! Developer, i was a big lover of Joomla! but now I am afraid to continue with it, Joomla! Can easily close the door, then they write an article on their website and we finish, that is ALL.

Look at joomla.org ! "LEADERSHIP BLOG" section you will find that latest post has written on April 15, 2014 ! OFF what “leaders” are they donning there !!

I am really sad of what happen to my Joomla! !!!

[itoctopus]

I don't think it's dying - at the contrary, it is being revived. The STS/LTS strategy was creating a lot of pressure on developers and was the reason why Joomla versions were released half baked and with security flaws. This is no longer the case. The Joomla team can work on ironing issues out on each version, and only focus on one version (right now the Joomla team is working on 2 versions).

There are literally millions of websites using Joomla and the JED is very active - so there is no need to worry about Joomla's future.

I was disappointed when I knew that Joomla canceled the LTS/STS strategy, but I the embraced this announcement as a good thing.

As for the second chart (from Google), I think the drop in interest is because of frustrated clients who used Joomla 1.5.26 and their websites were hacked because Joomla ended its support without releasing a fix for the TinyMCE exploit.

[waarnemer]

Sorry? There was a discussion going on a while ago.. not about the strategy itself but more on how it was made public.

Maybe still there can be pages which raises some questions, but on the joomla.org landing page you can find two links explaining:

http://developer.joomla.org/news/586-jo ... ategy.html
http://developer.joomla.org/news/587-fa ... cycle.html

I think you did not read those..

In short, you can develop as of "many days before yesterday".

The updated strategies will not allow for new features that break compatibility in the Joomla! 3 series.

So if you develop for 3.3 it stays ok in 3.4, 3.5+

You are actually better of compared to the past... and the graphics don't mean any to me without your URL source and query

[RedEye]

Peoples want to trust things, want to trust on what they work, wants to trust on the future of theirs Jobs, familly,... I am a Joomla! Developer, i was a big lover of Joomla! but now I am afraid to continue with it, Joomla! Can easily close the door, then they write an article on their website and we finish, that is ALL.

Pls, don't say that you're a Joomla Developer, you're NOT! You wouldn't post nonsense like this if you are one...

You don't like how it's going? Get involved and help the Joomla Developers!

[khalilghenimi]

Hello,

The STS/LTS strategy was creating a lot of pressure on developers

Joomla versions were released half baked and with security flaws

Exactly! Now people on the world feel that developers cannot make it, and leaders has not make the right strategy from the beginning! (Sorry but many has say’s that they are losers)

As for the second chart (from Google), I think the drop in interest is because of frustrated clients who used Joomla 1.5.26 and their websites were hacked because Joomla ended its support without releasing a fix for the TinyMCE exploit.

Yes, and we can add this:

is-joomla-dying.png

I think you did not read those..

Yes, I have read them all before I write the post... However, so many peoples do not like to change the strategy... It is hard for them to face it !

and the graphics don't mean any to me without your URL source and query

For the first one it has created according to this article:
http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leade ... lease.html

For the second one it is a Google Trends, you can see it by yourself , but no problem I will do it for you :

http://www.google.com/trends/explore?hl=en-US#q=Joomla

In addition, I will add you another chart compared to WordPress and you can see the deference:

http://www.google.com/trends/explore?hl ... ess&cmpt=q (Joomla is that line on blue, and WordPress is the one on red) !

Pls, don't say that you're a Joomla Developer, you're NOT!

Okay, it is not a problem for me if you know me more than I know myself... However, leaders really should face off these things!

You don't like how it's going? Get involved and help the Joomla Developers!

When they change the strategy they dos not asked us, even a single survey has not be made. I want to help and hold it as much as I can, but this is not a community work...

I am sorry for all this !

[waarnemer]

It is hard for you to meet changes isn't it...?

http://community.joomla.org/blogs/leade ... lease.html is an article written in december 2012. If I'd stick to old news the earth would still be flat. So therefore I try to keep myself updated on the LATEST news.

Your "interest graphs" are graphs about recorded Google searches.. It does not say anything on the reason why it had been searched. could be searched the most because of all the problems and hacking attempts on which WP outnumbers Joomla too..

http://www.google.com/trends/explore?hl ... lem&cmpt=q

And you see Wordpress passed Joomla round 2011 having more problems.

http://www.google.com/trends/explore?hl ... ked&cmpt=q

And again Wordpress did exceed Joomla since 2011 being hacked.

And yes there is some difference between Joomla and Wordpress when it comes to numbers... as the majority of the world tends to use "Wordpress" in the same manner as they use "Aspirin".. the first they mean a "Open Source CMS", the second they mean "pain relief", The searches for "Wordpress" will be more. Added to that.. Joomla users do not need to search for it.. they go to http://joomla.org

Your white board shows you are not very involved in the community or reading any articles wherever... there is no abandoning of support but for announced EOL. (like any app/software/cms.....)
Upgrade does not mean rebuild.. in fact the majority of my extensions from 2.5 still work in 3+. even the ones not mentioning they are compatible with 3+

Least recommended. By you?

Anyway if you thing the structure of Joomla is difficult...... you just don't get it...
Yes when it comes to authoring it is different than most other CMS-es... but if you don't like or grasp that... it is not necessarily bad.

In fact the vast majority of authors I have, I only need to show and explain things for 15 minutes... that is including drinking coffee.... and then they know what to do...

So you say....

I want to help and hold it as much as I can, but this is not a community work...

Well THIS IS COMMUNITY WORK!!!... all people working on this project do this for free... be grateful.

[RedEye]

Okay, it is not a problem for me if you know me more than I know myself...

Oh I don't, but I know that you're not a Joomla Dev... like I wrote: you wouldn't write nonsense like this if you are one...
To be clear: Joomla developer and Joomla extension developer are two (very) different groups in my eyes...

You don't like how it's going? Get involved and help the Joomla Developers!

When they change the strategy they dos not asked us, even a single survey has not be made.

And again: Get involved when you don't like how things go, than you will have a voice on changes like that...

[bumpycase]

I don't agree....and this is so immature.....trolling is not allowed mr. be greatful you are getting it for free.......Joomla has the best community support than any other CMS out there.........I agree that things are a bit slow lately......but I have full confidence in Joomla developer community, just they are taking time to find some space to make a big leap. I guess you don't know much about Joomla, go and watch some Joomla day videos on Joomla's [youtube] channel.....

[michalp]

I use Joomla since 2009. And during these 5 years I've heard voices about death of Joomla quite often (similarly to Wordpress, by the way).
Even on this forum somebody suggested the death of Joomla in about a year ago:
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?t=808473
And even one may find such a prediction from 2007:
http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?t=185924

And you know what? Today I started to develop another Joomla site...

[deleted user]

If Joomla were dying, the project wouldn't be seeing its highest download rates ever. The last 12 months have seen 12 million downloads of the CMS with a very strong trend favoring 3.x over 2.5. See https://twitter.com/mbabker/status/489783046019624960 for a graph.

[FlashRebel]

Joomla is not dying, it is just heavy slowly ''something'' what is not flexibile enough for this time. No brave leaders, no any direction.
The best thing what happens, is that Joomla changed strategy and will have just one release and can focus on one ''edition''.

it is nice, that people meet each other, talk about Joomla, write blogs about it .. it is nice, but not so helpful than spend that energy for code - Joomla.

It is normal now, that I read article how Joomla community meet somewhere, talks about something, how developers will release next version in some date ... but reality is, that when it comes to reality, code is not finished in that time, if yes, changes are focused on ''features'' which nobody need, and old lacking features still does not works well.

Some time ago I read one article how Joomla or OSM (not sure) spend money. I just imagined how Joomla can be great if at least half of that money (energy) is spend to coding Joomla instead of ''events''.

Bc. of heavy structure with milions of subpages, I m not able to find right articles about that. Same how I m not able to log in in some parts of Joomla sites, bc. for every part I need separate login, milions of captcha pictures and strong passwords, that its so user unfriendly.

Joomla have still enough users, but I m sure, less and less new users, bc. its just not userfriendly in any ways. Many users use Joomla bc. know it and not everybody wanna learn about Wordpress ..

[waarnemer]

@flash... Energy spent on development may just be the part which is done for free? so I don't see why the money should go there.... The meeting and sharing info is the part which is requiring some money investment... i am ok with that..

Being not able to log in to certain parts is indeed somewhat annnoying.. It requires you to subscribe to these parts too.. But once done...

Less new users is not really a good benchmark.... If you have a million people without a bike... You got a good chance you will sell a lot... Soon as every of those million got a bike... Your market dries out... Leaving a replacement market only...

[FlashRebel]

waarnemer I have just idea, that maybe some amount of money could be used for coding, for those who do everything behind what we as community use. That can bring better quality of code I think or at least some ''award'' for those who really change things and not just talk like me

Few days ago I found interesting crowdfunding project by Hannes Papenberg about urls for Joomla. Just got idea, that maybe something similar as crowdfunding could be implemented somewhere in Joomla - oficially somehow with ideas.joomla.org ....

It can be right way how people like me (nonprogrammers with crapy english) can help and support Joomla direct on way how they like.

[dhuelsmann]

I have just idea, that maybe some amount of money could be used for coding, for those who do everything behind what we as community use. That can bring better quality of code I think or at least some ''award'' for those who really change things and not just talk like me

Been down that road - lots of controversy in the Joomla community.http://buytaert.net/the-commercializati ... ce-project

[ozneilau]

Free Joomla hosting courtesy of SiteGround may help turn the situation around: http://www.joomla.org/announcements/gen ... round.html

[waarnemer]

@dhuelsmann.. your link is broken.. but I did find this on the same site:

http://buytaert.net/open-source-and-social-capital

[dhuelsmann]

Thanks @waarnemer. Link worked fine originally. Looks like the forum is changing the link. This was the original link http://[no tiny url]/XXY0ft

[waarnemer]

@dhuelsmann, thanks.. but the controversy is not only joomla.. it is a generic Open Source Projects issue as I read it.

Anyway Dries Buytaart sort of IS Drupal, so I cannot take his post(s) as coming from a community really....

[dhuelsmann]

Anyway Dries Buytaart sort of IS Drupal, so I cannot take his post(s) as coming from a community really....

Don't disagree but there was very little publicized about Joomla paying developers when it was going on - Nothing by OSM at all and the rest by the usual suspects like Amy Stephens and Brian Teeman who always seemed to take the negative view of anything. So, this blog with the subsequent comments, is the closest thing to an actual discussion about the pros and cons of paying developers. (Disclosure: I was the Treasurer cutting the checks to the developers at the time)

[waarnemer]

and it is a discussion from 2010... ?!

[dhuelsmann]

and it is a discussion from 2010... ?!

Yes, I left the board in July, 2010. I can't remember now if the paying of two devs stopped before I left or shortly after.

[sophia wright]

You wouldn't post nonsense like this .

[dhuelsmann]

You wouldn't post nonsense like this .

@Sophia Wright - not to sure what nonsense you are referring to. Can you be more specific about what you are talking about?

[FlashRebel]

dhuelsmann, Joomla is nonsens while one release add new features like redirect plugin, tags, post install msg, another release want take out everything.

Sometimes I read some discussion and many times recognized, if some new idea come from someone new, arriving developer, programmer, always old structure, core veterans put all new ideas down very fast.
If I put negative review on JED to extensions which belong to old contributor, review is rejected, comment in Joomla magazine not published ...
If I post that two updates during two days are horrible experience, then old structure answer me that I have to shut up ...
If I post negative review to component, old structure developer want to proof, that I m noob and stupid and his component is star on sky ...
Joomla is somehow not so open how it looks from forum, what is really active, but just forum ...

Soon we can expect free hosting for Joomla, so many users will come and will enjoy free hosting, free support from forum and developers of quality extensions can die or go to Wordpress and catch milions of customers ...

Drupal have probably smaller community than Joomla but still it looks more alive, bc. it have own niche, its different on its own way.
Wordpress is really far from all other cms, dont need discus about it. With so huge community of developers and plugins, themes ...

and Joomla ... still looking for own place on Earth ... hope will find it soon, bc. later will be too late

Just check joomla.org majority of announcements and news are about events, meetings everywhere, but nothing about plugins, extensions, function, code, plans, ideas ...

[dhuelsmann]

@FlashRebel:
Some of your observations do seem to be representative of the current state. For instance, some leaders of the Joomla community seem to get immediately defensive when asked innocuous questions and tend to attack the messenger. There does seem to be somewhat an incestuous relationship quality in many of the teams: If you aren't an inside member you never will be kind of vibe.

However, those are primarily interpersonal issues and do not reflect on the quality and appeal of the Joomla CMS. So forecasting it's demise is very much premature in my opinion.

[waarnemer]

@flash..

..maybe it is in your choice of words?? I never had the experience of being rejected or 'mocked' by anyone. Not in the magazine, not in the ideaslist.. even when addressing the issue of the certification. My comment got posted.(opposed as I see certification as a way of creating an elite, and elites are bad for communities. It will create a rift)
I do have my doubts sometimes but never got bashed or treated in a non constructive way...

@dave..

..being an activist against the board of course is not gonna help anyone.. you were an inside member and apparently very disappointed...

The comparisons made with Wordpress and Drupal?
The communities being vibrant yes or no? Based on what announcements you see on a landing page? Well I just checked the landing pages of the three... they all tell me the same but for the name and the colors used... for all plugins and stuff I just check JED...

Well you can compare on quality and features.. you can also compare them as an organization? Community?

Well ok..let's try

Wordpres is backed by Automattic. Automattic being Matt Mullenweg (Matt in AutoMATTic), also Wordpress.org has got its success from offering wordpress.com to the wold being their best advertisement since.
Anyway as a 'community' it is weak as there is no real community driven leadership... that is AutoMattic..
It will allow wordpress the advantage not to rely entirely on volunteered contributions to their project...

Drupal.org or drupal.com? The trademark drupal is owned by Dries Buytaert, not the community... And there is a financial statement, yes there is... showing the got lot more money..
The can spend a million dollars on salary, fees and expenses in 2013... Wow!
https://assoc.drupal.org/blog/hollyross ... ssociation

Compare it to Joomla!
Joomla is a trademark of OSM and OSM is a non profit org not owned by a person or corporation like the above....
http://www.opensourcematters.org/polici ... ports.html
The difference in resources money wise and how it is spent is huge...

In that respect Joomla is the only real community driven project of the three...

Conclusion: You can fairly compare Joomla/WP/Drupal on quality/features/i-like-most.. but any comparison on organization, financials and resources would be unfair..


Joomla being the real community here will also have its disadvantages when it comes to governing this... all are volunteers.. and it is like governing a country.. people living in that country with different ideas, wishes, demands, cultural and lingual background... to please them all is some objective...
Leaders of countries are loved, tolerated and sometimes even hated by the people living in that country... As humans, leaders will make mistakes, do things wrong, or just don't do what I want...
Will I be disappointed? Maybe.. but the country I live in is my preferred country so I accept this.
The good thing about this community not being a real country is that I can leave whenever I like... I can move in whenever I like....nobody shoots me.. I don't pay membership fees so I cannot hold any one responsible for anything nor has the "government" any obligation towards me...

Frankly I don't care much about all of that.. I am happy I am able to use a CMS which suits me best with a community which gives me better support than the average proprietary heavily licensed stuff out there for which I do pay..

And no, I am in no way connected or do I know anyone in whatever function in the board, magazine...... nor am I involved in any... but offering my assistance in the forum where I am able, to any user in need of some help... any user.. that is what a community is about..

[dhuelsmann]

@dave..

..being an activist against the board of course is not gonna help anyone.. you were an inside member and apparently very disappointed...

@waarnemer
Interesting observation drawn from what exactly?

[waarnemer]

Well you are not hiding it really: http://www.joomlaleaks.com/ and the tone of voice in the published articles.........

[dhuelsmann]

Sorry, I don't discuss the pros and cons of that blog on these forums. Tends to give certain people heartburn...

[waarnemer]

...you should build. Not break...