Sway me to Use Joomla (over Wordpress)

JAVesey · Post by **JAVesey** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:29 am

Not in an article........ in the URL. An article's number appears in the URL where that article is selected from a category list.

On my own website in sig:

Click on "Association" from the menu and then select an article from list. You will see the article's database reference number in the URL in your browser window.

It doesn't happen for those articles for which there is a direct sub-menu link. For example, hover your mouse over "Where to Ring" on the menu and from the displayed sub-menu select one of the two articles. There is no "article reference number" in the URL.

If you actually click on the "Where to Ring" menu item you will see three articles listed for that category. Click on the article called "About Change Ringing". This does not have a direct link to a sub-menu. Open the article and you will see the article's database reference number in the URL. The other two articles have sub-menu links and there is no number in the URL.

I suspect that this behaviour is what the poster is referring to.

darb · Post by **darb** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:16 am

Thanks that explains more and I solve that differently but you can use JomSef or other SEO/SEF component.

This is free to dl and use com_joomsef4-4.6.2 http://www.artio.net/downloads/joomla/joomsef that would solve your problem..

JAVesey · Post by **JAVesey** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:29 am

Thanks for that. I will look at it on more detail when I have time. It would be nice if one didn't have to use another extension, though.

There is an explanation of the reason for the numbers here:
https://docs.joomla.org/Search_Engine_Friendly_URLs

Interesting reading

darb · Post by **darb** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:35 am

There is a "new" router system that is coming I think in J 3.5 if all goes well. That we all looking forward too also. Agree that this should be in the core of Joomla as well..

Good luck!

ym1 · Post by **ym1** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:31 pm

I read the doc when I was looking for a solution but it doesn't say how to get rid of the numbers.

No numbers in URLs should be a top priority for core team. There is no chance of competing with WP with that as a "search engine friendly" URL structure.

Hackwar · Post by **Hackwar** » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:16 am

Just a quick FYI: I'm working on solving that issue. See http://www.joomlager.de/crowdfunding

BooknookBiz · Post by **BooknookBiz** » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:41 pm

darb wrote:Thanks that explains more and I solve that differently but you can use JomSef or other SEO/SEF component.

This is free to dl and use com_joomsef4-4.6.2 http://www.artio.net/downloads/joomla/joomsef that would solve your problem..

Well, it may well solve the problem, but add more extensions and there is more cost. Not necessarily in terms of $$$, but it terms of page-load speeds and overall site efficiency. I'm fighting with that now--Google site assessment for speed/optimization does NOT like the way Joomla! is structured, in terms of where the javascript(s) is/are called on the homepage, etc., and there's actually very little that any non-coder can do about it (in fact, there's NOTHING a non-coder can do). I'm trying really hard NOT to add any more extensions, if I can avoid it, for this specific reason.

For those thinking about WP versus Joomla, etc.: I'm running a T3 Bootstrap responsive site, that uses Zoo for the blogging platform, etc. The site is quite complex, all-in, and to modify the templates, you have to be able to whack about a bit in PHP, or at least, be able to parse the PHP in order to track down the CSS you want, or whatever. That's not necessarily optimal for the average website owner. (Not saying I'm above average, I'm absolutely NOT, which is why I'm saying this).

I find other Joomla! idiosyncracies really irritating, and if you're coming from ANYTHING else, it will make you nuts, for example, not being able to test something out, in terms of an article/content. On anything else--pure plain HTML or WP, you name it, you can create something, give it a URL, and preview it by simply typing the URL in the browser. NOT on Joomla! On J!, you have to make the article, then make a menu item to display it. If you're trying to test out, say, a Gallery component, and how it appears, that's a real PITA. So, when I'm building a gallery, and I want to see what the layout I've designed will look like, I have to put the gallery IN an article, then put the article ON a menu--just to preview it. This is, to me, really vexing.

Also, in terms of "simple things like not showing an author's name," be aware that the more complex the template becomes (which happens, as you add functionality, because you are adding one module or component or plug-in, etc., after another, mind you), those "simple things" can be overridden. Perfect example? I have a Zoo-created Blog, with 5 subcategories. For the LIFE of me, no matter what settings I choose, I can't seem to get the entire blog to sequence by date. By date within sub-category, yes. I've tried article setting, article category settings, main category settings, AND the menu and sub-menu settings, and it simply won't do it. That type of stuff will make you crazy, or at least, it does me.

Make sure you thoroughly test out the media manager, before you commit. I actually now forget what I don't love about it, but every time I try to use it, during an article, I find it primitive. FWIW. (Oh, I know--the ordering is utterly illogical, inside folders of images, for one thing.)

If you have more than a few extensions, figuring out whether or not you're "okay" to upgrade Joomla is a crapshoot.

So: it's not all roses and daisies. I moved to J! from Expression Engine about 9 months ago, and I thought I'd be a LOT happier with J! than I am. J! has some of the same things that EE did, that I found intolerable (an inability to see an article preview; no easy way to grab the FULL article URL upon creation, etc.) in EE. I probably would have been happier with something else, but every CMS out there has its own limitations. I would never have been happy with Wordpress, which, yes, I tried in detail, several times. There's a happy-happy-joy-joy attitude about almost any FREE (Free! Free! Free!) plugin, because it's, well, free. But I've found that like anything else in life, you get what you pay for, and some plugins (like JSitemap) are so far superior to the free "competition" that you oughtn't waste your time with the free stuff.

Offered FWIW.

BooknookBiz · Post by **BooknookBiz** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:36 am

Oh! I remember, on the media manager: when you're inserting images into an article, you can't search for the particular image you want, in the media manager folder(s). I have thousands of images on my site, at least 1400 of which have to be in the same folder, and that lack of searching capability makes me bonkers.

slavelle · Post by **slavelle** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:02 am

Hey YM - kind of seems like you might have come here for the sake of argument?

No numbers in URLs should be a top priority for core team. There is no chance of competing with WP with that as a "search engine friendly" URL structure.

I did a little searching around about this, believing myself that it is largely unimportant, and I found a TON of support for my thought. I'm sure it's "nice" that the number of the category and/or article will go away at some point (like in the discussed new router engine that's supposedly coming in v3.5 or so), but in the meantime, it seems that from an SEO perspective it makes so little difference as to not be worth the obsessing so many put into it and other such worries.

In the end, if you have normal "pages" that you point to with menu items, you won't have these numbers. If you are using a system like K2 or Zoo for your blogging, you wouldn't need to create a menu item to point to the content to get the better URL. I think there are two things here:

1. It probably makes almost no difference in search ranking.
2. In many cases, you would have links without those numbers in them anyway.

Those things said - such a minor thing as "there are these extra numbers in my URL (even though the rest of the title and my otherwise-keyword-stuffed information is there too)" seems like it would be WAY down the list of things that would make you choose one CMS over another.

Certainly things like

1. Better coding in the form of MVC
2. More flexibility in layout, especially without code changes
3. Plenty of extensions, many (especially paid one) that exceed the quality and continued development of similar Wordpress options
4. A system that was designed with websites in mind and Blogging as an options vs a system that was designed for blogging with websites that came later.

etc.

slavelle · Post by **slavelle** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:06 am

Hey BooknookBiz - for the ordering of Zoo items, have you looked at the config tab for the app you are using?

In my case, you would go to components...zoo...select Blog...go to Config tab...look at the Configuration (Global) section. You will see the option to specify item order. Does this address what you are looking for?

BooknookBiz · Post by **BooknookBiz** » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:24 am

slavelle wrote:Hey BooknookBiz - for the ordering of Zoo items, have you looked at the config tab for the app you are using?

In my case, you would go to components...zoo...select Blog...go to Config tab...look at the Configuration (Global) section. You will see the option to specify item order. Does this address what you are looking for?

Hi:

Well...I don't see that option. Nothing I do, around Zoo, gets me to Blog-->Config. I see a variety of other choices (e.g.,article versus another content type I have), but not "config." I've asked the folks who created the template, but quite honestly, they act like I'm stupid because I can't figure out how to do it via the main Joomla CP (article manager and menu manager and category manager), but those options genuinely don't work. Thanks for the pointer, though--I'll ask them again to tell me how to get to the Config, and give that a go.

slavelle · Post by **slavelle** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:44 am

Hey BooknookBiz - maybe this showrt screencast video will get you to the place you need - at least as I'm understanding what you are looking for!

http://screencast.com/t/SpsisWoGJ

Let me know if this helps.

BooknookBiz · Post by **BooknookBiz** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:11 am

slavelle wrote:Hey BooknookBiz - maybe this showrt screencast video will get you to the place you need - at least as I'm understanding what you are looking for!

http://screencast.com/t/SpsisWoGJ

Let me know if this helps.

I appreciate the effort (interesting--I have Screencast, Jing, Camtasia studio and Snagit, and that's the first time I've ever seen a video on there I couldn't resize to fit my screen. Hell, I didn't know that they still even promo'ed Jing, I thought that went the way of the dodo)...but that's not what I have. Whatever my template guys did (ThemeHippo), I don't have that. When I click Components-->Zoo, all I see is "Select an App to Create a New Instance," showing "Blog" and "Pages," and that's all. I don't see the menu you have (Items, Categories, etc.), nor config.

But thanks. I really do appreciate it. I've tried to read through Zoo's "stuff" before (if one can call that documentation--I don't), and I've basically given up, as it's utterly incoherent, or at least, I think it is. I've had to ask my guys to make any changes I want.

Thanks again.

slavelle · Post by **slavelle** » Sat May 02, 2015 3:16 am

Hey BooknookBiz - A few things:

I don't know what the heck happened with that Jing video either. I watched it myself and it was odd seeing it that big. I recorded it on my Surface 3 Pro, but I've done other ones on here as well and not seen this happen - whatever - you saw what you needed to see, unfortunately it was something that you don't have!

If you are only seeing that in your Zoo, it seems that you don't have an App setup yet, which is why you wouldn't have those menus. You would first create a Zoo App - the Blog being what I use it for, THEN you would have the option to create the items and then you would be able to order those items. I'm not sure what your template guys have or haven't done, but it should be that hard to use that you have to resort to the Zoo docs - which are "ok", but not for the faint of heart. They are definitely written for a developer, not a user. And even as a dev, I don't really care for them. They are fine for the detail, but not very useful in my opinion either!

Good look with your site.

andrewchen5678 · Post by **andrewchen5678** » Sat May 09, 2015 7:07 am

I have been considering moving my site

Code: Select all

www.thesiliconhub.com

from wordpress to something else also. My site was hacked once before and I feel that for wordpress I need to keep an eye on security updates all the time. I have had some joomla websites before and they never got hacked. I have used joomla long time ago and I just don't know right now how is joomla's content editor conpared to wordpress. For wordpress I needed to use html all the time, which is kinda tedious.

Webdongle · Post by **Webdongle** » Sat May 09, 2015 11:17 am

The editor in Joomla is quite good. But many users install http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions ... ditors/jce . Suggest you install Joomla and test JCE ... if you don't try it then you can't decide if you like it.

darb · Post by **darb** » Sat May 09, 2015 2:06 pm

Slavelle.

I did a little searching around about this, believing myself that it is largely unimportant, and I found a TON of support for my thought. I'm sure it's "nice" that the number of the category and/or article will go away at some point (like in the discussed new router engine that's supposedly coming in v3.5 or so), but in the meantime, it seems that from an SEO perspective it makes so little difference as to not be worth the obsessing so many put into it and other such worries.

This is the only thing I cant understand with Joomla or put it in another way some Joomla people doesnt understand h o w this should be.

I have argumented with Joomla people since Joomla 1.0 with the total unnecessary Section/Categories/Menu structure but failed to convince Joomla core influencers that this is wrong thinking. People have done sooo much extra work just to have a site structure and also people writing articles with a lot of mess in many Joomla sites. Here is one later post http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=575&t=826464

I want to merge menus into categories and that you should be able to directly write an article to the visiable menu in the menu category tree similar like Typo3 and Carsten Engels Pages and Items structure http://www.pages-and-items.com/extensio ... -and-items

About Preview you have preview in JCE editor and you can also set up different profile types with many settings..

darb · Post by **darb** » Mon May 11, 2015 1:34 pm

Time to wake up Joomla team people and understand this is really important focus areas until Joomla is dead..

http://www.themexpert.com/blog/meet-jis ... la-plugins

The Joomla market is getting smaller compared to WordPress. What's your thought to improve this situation?

To be honest, I’m not a marketer and I don’t keep a close eye on statistics - I’m mainly into Joomla for the fun. The fact is that WordPress is the most popular CMS and Joomla only comes second. I think the main focus should be on making Joomla simpler to use. That’s exactly where WordPress has won ground.

For instance, there are various tasks that are very simple in WordPress. While with Joomla that same task requires multiple steps - like writing an article and adding it to the menu.

There are multiple Joomla extensions that solve those issues already. Either those extensions need to become part of the core, or we need to be heading to some kind of distribution-like model where hosting providers or implementors can easily roll out their own type of Joomla (core plus preferred extensions).

Simply by copying the things that WordPress excels in could make Joomla win ground again. Joomla still offers a far better architecture and code base, so I trust that when users are looking for something more advanced, Joomla still wins.

HRADigital · Post by **HRADigital** » Mon May 11, 2015 2:12 pm

Hi!!!!!
I've "lost" a bit of my time reading this topic, trying to see if I had misunderstood Joomla for the past few months, just to find out that it was a completely wast of time!!!

In Joomla's defense, it is described as an OS for your web application, so, what it really is, is a platform where your "programs" (extensions) will run, and will be managed. That's it, and nothing else.
In that regard, Joomla does it job greatly. It manages your users and user groups, their ACL's for every extension, internal messaging, and it manages your extensions updates/installs very easily.
You can update a component, module, plug-in, template or even language with a mouse-click, without even looking to a single line of code. This is BRILLIANT...

Joomla's problems start, when you start to talk about the extensions themselves, and the way Joomla processes them, starting with the core ones (menu, categories, articles, media manager), or when you want to develop your owns...
Not even gonna mention the lack of documentation and support in Joomla...

Joomla's MVC pattern is a joke!!! It's not even MVC, is more a MTVLCsC pattern that makes no sense, and makes it even harder for people to get into it, even with years of experience coding, meaning that, the fact that Joomla's extension count numbers are the lowest compared to its direct competitors it's not a fluke.

Core component outputs aren't even clean, and their functionality is buggy... Not to mention that, you end up having to do all the work yourself, taking 5 times the time it would take if you weren't using Joomla in the first place...

Is SEO important to you?!?! Is multi-lingual/culture a factor to you?! Do you want a RAD environment for your web based software?! Then I only have one advice to you. DROP JOOMLA!!!!

If you think you can manage your site, with simple text-based pages, and the "default" functionality that one might expect from that, then stick to Wordpress... Why over-kill with something else?!
If you want something that you can use, to develop complex/bespoken software on top of, try Drupal instead...

I wrote this post, with some regret, and a lot of frustration, partially because Joomla is just "inches" away from becoming a strong contender to becoming the GREATEST and most popular CMS.... But it will never be...

darb · Post by **darb** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:20 am

Ok I didnt answer these questions...my personal comments

See first this blog post that also comment to learn more about Joomla compared to Drupal if you want something more powerful, flexible and easy than Wordpress: http://www.prototaph.com/protoblog/86-j ... comparison

ym1 wrote:Currently I use Wordpress for the majority of my sites. Lately I've been considering using Joomla for a few sites so I thought I'd post here to see if the Joomla community might sway me to use Joomla over Wordpress.

I'm planning on launching a new community site for a specific niche. While WP is great, it has some limitations in terms of being a non-blogging platform. For instance there is no way to remove dates in posts without going into the theme files and manually taking out the code or setting up a child theme. Post dates are still in metadata and I find it extremely frustrating.

For this site I just want to write undated articles as I will only update sporadically. I want it kind of feel like a "news blog" on the frontpage but the articles must be undated. Is Joomla ideal for this? Here it looks easy;

/Removing_author_name,_creation_date_or_update_date_from_an_article

WP plugins I like to use currently are;

PrettyLinkPro - For cloaking affiliate links
NextScripts - For automatic social sharing
Yoast SEO - For doing SEO
Ultimate Nofollow - Allows you to put in nofollow attribute for links
Broken Link Checker - Check for broken links
Redirection - Helps manage 301 redirects

I'm wondering what equivalent extensions/modules are there for Joomla?

This is not a problem if you want to use a proffessional bloging tool for Joomla like EasyBlog. http://stackideas.com/easyblog

I've considered using Buddypress and bbPress for this community site. I know Kunena is good forum software and is actively supported.

Kunena.org

There is Community Builder but it seems to get full functionality you need to spend the $400+ a year on the subscription. Is there a good free alternative for Joomla like Buddypress for Wordpress? The other plugin I'd use for this community site if I went with WP is S2member. Is there something like this for Joomla? What about WooCommerce or WPecommerce Joomla equivalent extension?

Well you can use the whole package of proffessional tools for Joomla like EasySocial, EasyBlog, Komento, EasyDiscuss if you want a total integration. http://stackideas.com/easysocial see others there but there are other solutions as well that are doing the same and are free so its up to you! But use Kuena is a good choice and is integrate with the above too

What about integrating RSS feeds from other sources? Is Feedgator the best extension?

http://extensions.joomla.org/extension/feedgator

Editing the backend of WP is great. I know natively most people don't' like Joomla so I guess most people install K2?

Well you can use Joomla very powerful ACL and make its easy viable with this extension if you have the need ? https://www.aclmanager.net/https://docs.joomla.org/Access_Control_List

Any other editing Joomla extensions that make editing articles easier?

Joomla have a lot of different options for CCK alike extra extensions. You can test and check a least 6-7 different one with a little bit different approach how to make web building solutions. Check this one that is quite complex but you can achieve almost anything you like http://www.seblod.com/ used by large companies mainly France.

For editor you can install free JCE editor where you can set up user profiles with different posting features allowed etc this is an old [youtube] video showing a little what is possible https://youtu.be/eAJZ9In8drk

I like in WP updates are a breeze (most of the time). From what I've read generally updating Joomla is not as easy. If you are used to WP updates how hard is it to update Joomla?

Well where have you "heard" that??? Joomla is a one click update and you set up a Joomla site in a few seconds from a Akeeba kickstarter copy from one site to another so you can have different "Joomla copies" that you can manage very very quickly a n d easy. https://www.akeebabackup.com/products/a ... ackup.html we also now did this for Wordpress so you can have a backup system that not sukcs..

Any opinions or advice about using Joomla vs Wordpress would be appreciated.

Dont forget to have a good host for your Joomla site that is secure and use the htaccess master Joomla file to prevent hackers, speed up Joomla https://docs.joomla.org/Htaccess_exampl ... ecurity%29 ( you need some knowledget to fix this one ) or just install Akeeba Admin Tools proffessional to create one for your site https://www.akeebabackup.com/products/admin-tools.html Also check this addons Advance Module Mangager that is great from Peter https://www.nonumber.nl/forum/advancedmodulemanager

Ok have to stop now when I dont know your requirements bcs there are so many high quality Joomla extensions out there...

T h e s e are facts about Joomla - not what y o u have heard. You also have some small plugins etc for enhance SEFs and SEO easy...marketing automation integration mautic.org (Joomla people doing this project) , Email automation https://www.acyba.com/ etc etc

Joomla is n o t owned by any one private person - we the community (OSM) owns Joomla and can not be sold to a proprietary owner like Wordpress and Drupal can

Some links
http://magazine.joomla.org/issues/issue ... t-features
http://www.pulsar-informatique.com/actu ... e-a-drupal

Bikerdave · Post by **Bikerdave** » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:47 pm

I have just read this thread with great interest as it is helpful and insightful with links to relevant resources, thank you all for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences.

toddgarrigus · Post by **toddgarrigus** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:40 pm

I've been using WP for the last 6 or 7 years and prefer it. Just started using Joomla and can say that it is definitely different! This forum has been huge in understanding it. I still haven't found a Getting Started tutorial, though. That would be helpful.

sozzled · Post by **sozzled** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:56 pm

toddgarrigus wrote:I still haven't found a Getting Started tutorial, though. That would be helpful.

We all learn in different ways: some people (like me, for instance) prefer to read books—other people would probably label me a dinosaur for my preference in using paper-based learning material; some people prefer the more visual approach (e.g. online videos). In the end, however, if people use Google and search for "Joomla tutorials" they will discover a wealth of information about Joomla and how to use it.

A good place for getting started with Joomla is here: https://docs.joomla.org/Portal:Beginners

Ultimately, people will find what they're looking for if their need is important enough. For example, I've never found a "getting started" tutorial for Wordpress (or Drupal, SharePoint, ColdFusion or any other CMS) for the simple reason that I've never had a reason to look for one.

toddgarrigus · Post by **toddgarrigus** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:00 pm

Thank you, sozzled! Been bumping around looking for something like this for awhile. Much appreciated!

Webdongle · Post by **Webdongle** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:34 pm

My approach is to use pen and paper to plan a site then get the Categories and Articles sorted. Then the menus. Then decide what affects/layouts I want and search for how to make Joomla achieve my needs. I find that much easier than trying to learn 'parrot fashion'.

ankurgupta87 · Post by **ankurgupta87** » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:25 pm

Hi Team,

I got this thread while exploring how to move from WP to joomla and found it a perfect place for my query.
I have some WP websites. Now I want to start my new project with joomla. Please guide me to move my site [ redacted ] I have purcahsed hosting from inmotion.
Please help...

Bikerdave · Post by **Bikerdave** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:58 pm

This thread was about how people feel about using Wordpress or Joomla not about how to move a site.

If you have WP sites that you want to move to Joomla I suggest that you do a Google search, there are lost of resources available already.

One important point to consider is that there are differences between WP and Joomla that mean you might find it easier to copy content only, page by page, and build a Joomla site from scratch, as from what I have seen there is no simple way to move a site from WP to Joomla (or vice versa).

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