Discussion: Joomla and non-code "bugs"

[ewel]

Beat, It looks like you might be barking up the wrong tree.. To quote myself: "I don't think anyone needs a judge". The other time I mentioned a judge was when I described the past of someone who might be the answer to Andrew's question about speaking to somebody with ombudsman experience. And ombudsmen have nothing to do with complications and control but everything with accountability and trust.

[Beat]

Beat, It looks like you might be barking up the wrong tree.. To quote myself: "I don't think anyone needs a judge". The other time I mentioned a judge was when I described the past of someone who might be the answer to Andrew's question about speaking to somebody with ombudsman experience. And ombudsmen have nothing to do with complications and control but everything with accountability and trust.

I'm not barking, just trying to help Joomla to avoid complications, and keep the workload mostly productive...

Fully respecting Ombudsmen and Judges and the role they have to play, specially in private conflicts.

Sorry if you misread my post above as a barking, maybe it was a little short and too straight to the point. When I have time, I try to shorten my text to the maximum, and keep their number small, by courtesy to the reader's time.

So, Not barking, just saying let's try to learn and do better with less complications .

[ewel]

I didn't mean you barked, but that you were probably speed reading and picking on the wrong thing - apologies and I'll add "as the expression goes" next time..

[mlipscomb]

I've been watching this topic and I think the idea of a vote/discussion/dispute resolution process/program is a good idea. I've evaluated redmine and while I think it is a great product, in my opinion, it would be ideal to have something that is "joomla-based". Any thoughts on JoomlArt's JA_Voice? http://www.joomlart.com/addons/componen ... voice.html

I don't know if it would completely work or not, but in the spirit of "eating our own dog food" it would definitely be a step in the right direction.

[Robert_Vining]

I'm pretty sure the platform was already decided here:

http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?p ... 1#p2003741

[Jenny]

What Toni was discussing was an integrated system for the teams to collaborate and communicate more effectively in their roles, keeping the various resources working well for the community, and creating a streamlined environment to ease the use by all of our community members, teams included.

The previous discussion in the OSM forum regarding volunteers and matching them up with action items was discussed by cpaschen and as far as I know he is still involved in trying to put that together. I see his idea of a collaborative place for people to interact and contribute or find ways to contribute the perfect answer to the items brought up in this thread. I think his ideas were very good ones.

The idea of having a place where people can present problems, issues or complaints and have the group's assistance in resolving, can be tied into the ideas that he (cpaschen) had (to be a place to collaborate,contribute ideas and step up to volunteer).

I am hoping to hear more about what he has in mind and how we can tie it into the resources.

[mlipscomb]

The original discussion was twofold - one, how applications for inclusion/approval of TM, etc are tracked/communicated handled. (That's an issue that is being solved with jForce).

The Second was a community dispute resolution/comment/voting platform. That's where my suggestion came from with ja_voice as a possible solution. (the theoretical role of an ombudsman).

I could very well be way off course with this, and in my opinion the forum itself meets many of the needs that any solution could try to fill. Everyone I'm sure has their opinion on that - just really throwing out ideas.

[masterchief]

ombudsmen, judges, that will make community fly away fast imho. Not a good idea imho.

Correct, formal judgements and what not would not be good. The point is to take the "idea" of what those real-world roles do in solving what are usually very tense situations and apply the "principles" here.

[iikozen]

Just FYI we have a new management system in the work for processing TM etc that will be our own dog food, thank you.

Hi,

Would it be possible for us to know what the status of that new management system is?

Thank you!

[Robert_Vining]

What a coincidence Manoel, I was just wondering the same thing since I submitted a domain request last week and have not received even an automated response. It made me thing back to this discussion from several months ago... I thought it was just about ready to roll out back in January.

[Jenny]

Robert you applied for domain registration of Joomstew.com at 11:30AM CST on May 6th. That was just over 3 days, 9 hours, 10 seconds from right this second of posting (give or take a second or 10).

Just making sure the discussion is based on reality and not rhetoric.

Thanks.

[Robert_Vining]

I received a notice in my inbox that there was a reply to this thread... it made me click through to find Manoel's new post above, which reminded me of the thought I had on Thursday about the new submission system proposed in this thread.

I didn't come here beating a drum on Thursday, I just replied to a topic today that I was automatically subscribed to because I was a part of said conversation.

I guess there's a silver lining in all things, you at least acknowledged my submission. Bonus!

Now, any word on that new system yet Jennifer?



Note: Edited unneeded statement from my post.

[masterchief]

Hi Robert. I think it's wise to avoid calling people paranoid. Pretty easy to take the wrong way, even if you meant it in good faith.

[Robert_Vining]

Edit: Removed off-topic statement.

On-Topic: In the same breath... 2 leadership team members, one from the TM approval dept. and the lead developer for the project have both stopped by to reply to my post... but only to imply my post was rhetoric, or to correct what I said.

I've come to the forum in earnest to ask a status update on a question that was posed 4 months ago in regard to trademark submissions and how they are handled because I am currently going through that process myself.

During the process of submitting a domain name request 4 days ago (duly noted above), I received no automated response or confirmation of acceptance, yet am picked apart for stating so in the proper thread using the proper channel.

This very discussion thread proposed a new system that has been in development for the past year. Since no update was given here in the past 4 months and I happened to get a notice in my mailbox about a reply, I clicked through to see the post. I then added my own inquiry on the status of this great new system that will improve the process, user experience (mine in this case) and communication between you and I during said process.

Nothing more or nothing less was, is or will be intended by me here today.

Does anyone here within the Joomla! Leadership have information about, leading up to or within a 10 mile radius of, anything that remotely involves addressing the direct question posed above?

Or, is that something that I should follow up with another channel of communication within the project? A form I might need to fill out? Someone's back I did not scratch properly?

If that is the case, then please do not reply to the topic without a respectful answer to the original question, or one of the many questions posed in the previous paragraph with directions on how to proceed.

Let me be very clear here... I'm not asking for a fight, to offend or degenerate any of you.

I promise.

I just asked a simple question.

Any takers?

[masterchief]

HI Robert. I stopped by because, like you, I'm subscribed to this topic - mainly because I was sort of responsible for it's inception. If you post in a thread I'm not subscribed to, I'll likely not notice it.

I am probably wrong on this but I believe it's on Louis's long list of things to make some changes to CiviCRM. When we compared lists sometime in the week before last we made an executive decision to park anything not on the critical path for 1.6 for the immediate future (even then, the remainder was still daunting). Lousy answer I know but it's the best one I've got.

It should be noted backscratching is against company policy. However, bugs fixed, in lots of a dozen or more, are highly regarded and will be taken into consideration

Just on this topic, it's possibly worth dissecting it and people running with sub-ideas in the Ideas Forum. Just a thought.

[JacquesR]

off-topic:
Jenny & Robert_Vining, I feel you are both over-reacting to each other's post in this thread, and being unnecessarily confrontational.

@ Robert: the added sarcasm is also not needed to get a reply.

on-topic:
This situation is exactly where it would be very useful to have an integrated software system that can keep everyone up-to-date regarding something like a TM application.

I must also have been reading iikozen's mind, about the software system that was last mentioned, since I was about to post the same question to a different thread.
(It's perhaps what some would call Synchronicity! )

Andrew: as far as I'm aware, it was the customization of JForce that was under way, and I also recall seeing it mentioned in a recent community blog too. (can't remember where now)

I'll undertake to check in with those who are involved with this, what the status is, and post feedback here.
(within the next day or two as time allows)

Being able to track various types of correspondence and applications, will greatly help to resolve some minor issues turning into public spats.

[brian]

Jacques thank you for keeping on top of this

[mcsmom]

Just FYI we have a new management system in the work for processing TM etc that will be our own dog food, thank you.

Hi,

Would it be possible for us to know what the status of that new management system is?

Thank you!

It's a complicated system but progress is being made. The people working in the sand box are making progress, but like all software development I've seen, the implementation is more challenging an slower than the theory.

[JacquesR]

It's a complicated system but progress is being made. The people working in the sand box are making progress, but like all software development I've seen, the implementation is more challenging an slower than the theory.

Thank you for the update.

Please let us know if any help is needed with testing.

There are many priorities competing for time and attention, but I think this system will greatly reduce the current admin burden on volunteers, as well as reduce the level of tension due to miss-communication (or false expectations).

Perhaps Andrew in his tongue-in-cheek comment correctly hinted at how this system could also be finished sooner: by more people helping out fixing bugs on 1.6 (since that is where most resources are currently directed).

[mcsmom]

Yes it could. Right now we are mainly focused on back end work flow but when the front end is ready for testing you can be sure there will be a call for help.

[Jenny]

The new system will most definitely reduce the amount of duplicated work that is done by the various teams, and also streamline communications with both team members working on all of resources offered to the community and community members wanting to register use of the trademarks, and register to use the resources.

Unfortunately as with everything, it is dependent on prioritizing time and resources to the tasks at hand. And as Jacques noted, the resources at this time are being directed to 1.6.

The last testing I was involved with was the ticketing system which just needed some minor tweaking, but was working really well. The next step in my involvement will be organizing the information and screen flows to make it easier for people to navigate the trademark registration processes. I am just waiting for the entire system to be a bit more complete before I start entering that content. It has been challenging for the makers of JForce and for the group heading up the implementation simply because of the scope of what we are asking the system to do. I have made specific requests regarding functionality in terms of an integrated whois query and capture system, and integrated screen capture system, which is a bit tricky to implement, along with a system to organize that information.

[Robert_Vining]

Jennifer, let me first apologize for my previous response to you, it was unwarranted and over the top and I have edited my post to remove the statement. Thank you for taking the time to respond here with the information you provided. I think it's great you're working so hard to make the upgrade to the new system even better.

@Jacques, you're correct, and I appreciate you taking the middle road to diffuse the situation.

Thank you all as well for your kind and informational responses, sounds like a lot of work is being done to improve the system now in place.

Andrew, noted on the backscratching and I will reply to your email directly.

Thanks, and looking forward to the new TM approval system from a user's perspective.

[Jenny]

@Jacques - Toni mentioned a little bit of an update on the new CRM on this blog post http://community.joomla.org/blogs/commu ... cklog.html - that internal testing was happening. She also answered some of the questions that were posed regarding it in the comments to the blog itself.

I just wanted to note that also there are not just the requests I have made in terms of integrated wish list items (whois and screen capture for me) but requests for functionality by other teams I am sure.

Another wish list item for me is full legal translations of our trademark documents and forms so that we are offering English, Russian, German, Spanish, Chinese, Arabic and French, in the hopes to cover the broadest scope of the community, while keeping all of the documents manageable.

All of it takes time, resources, people and some of it takes money. I have no doubt that when it all comes together it is going to be fantastic.

[iikozen]

...
on-topic:
This situation is exactly where it would be very useful to have an integrated software system that can keep everyone up-to-date regarding something like a TM application.

I must also have been reading iikozen's mind, about the software system that was last mentioned, since I was about to post the same question to a different thread.
(It's perhaps what some would call Synchronicity! )

Jacques,

I surely hope for plenty of Synchronicity between us all so the community can, not only be sustained but, evolve As a Whole, taking us along to higher ground.

It is wonderful to find some of the many, much needed, asnwers that our community wants and deserves.

Whether you're reading my mind or simply taking in consideration what has been written, I wish the idea that started this thread was given a second chance for as long as the new software is not implemented.

Thank you!

@ Robert; @ Jenny; @ Andrew; @ Brian; @ mcsmom - Thank you for your co-laboration!

Best regards,

Manoel


PS if my wish is not granted, that's OK, because I too sometimes thank God for unanswered prayers.

[brian]

Just wondering if there had been any progress on this - it sure could have come in handy in recent weeks.

[mlipscomb]

Yes actually.... A lot of forward progress is being made. The new Ticket System is coming within a month or two. Currently it's being built out and teams are being added. Will do a blog post when it's ready for beta launch. The system will eventually tie in with the directories as well, so it's pretty exciting.

See: http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-l ... 0fc71f8200

And: http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-w ... 8b3a3657f3

And: http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-w ... afd686abd3