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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:27 am 
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Hi all,

I use Joomla for my websites few years. Long time I was not in this forum, because before I type to much, I was banned, so I stoped writing here.
In this time I feel, that I need write here just some things.
What is wrong with Joomla ? After few years nothing change ! Yes Joomla use newer technology, some new things are inside, but it is necesarry, not feauture, nothing special.

When I m looking now to Joomla at all, it is heavy cms with totally slow perfomance and tons of unnecesarry things - modules, components, plugins and miss some good things there.
Also third part extension are horible, half of them you can not use for good website, other part have many bugs, others stay totaly in past with functions and looking.

Just on starting - registration - name, username ?? for what both ??? Who like fill tons of formulars ? Also third part extension - free, almost everywhere you need register before downloading ... for what ??? They need my email adress or my name + username ? Nobody need it, ok, if they want to do marketing, they can ask for email ... this I understand and I wil unuscribe sure after that, so its only waste of time and database.
Many extensions are for J2,5, some are for 3.0 ...what is it ? We have Joomla 3.0 and I read everywhere no to use it.
It is much better than 2,5, why no use it ? Because third party are not able to make extensions ? Then dont do 3.0 if third party can not do extensions for it.
How can I use 2,5 if 3,0 is better ? This time if I do new site, I will never use 2,5, better change extension which is ready, but never use older Joomla 2.5 because is really outdated.

Please tell which good nice website use ''Newsfeed or Messagings or Weblinks or Wrapper or Who is online ? and other tons of unusefuly outdated toys ?
Also core of Joomla, - contect, articles and tons of toys around it, Who is it ? Who want to have good and nice website need to implement third part extensions for it and then Joomla website start be so heavy, slowly in performance and strange for users ! Strange for admin, Strange for servers and strange for our heavy databases on servers.

Just today I tried to change login form - just module, I tried 6 extensions for 2,5 Joomla, no one work well, not from my ideas, just no one work well how it was mentioned on third party extention's website. Sure I did 6 registration on each site, because I want to download this. What is this ? Strange and terrible.

I really start to dont like Joomla, maybe it is because I tried other cms what are up to date, not so heavy and do the same job with faster loading, more easy working on backend and what is important ... are very familiar and friendly to users. Long time I stay just with Joomla, beacuse I like it and I thinked, that Joomla will go up to date and will improve some things ... Not ! Joomla did nothing, just kicked me to looking for other cms, I did it and checked more cms.
I had 8 Joomla website, already 4 changed to other cms ... I m more satisfied with all 4 new website, much faster, easier and my users feel better on these website.

I need to finish my crying ... just other things, Joomla use phBB forum, it is ok, it is the best open source forum probably, why not ? nothing wrong with it. Also many members of Joomla forum and community use Wordpress for bloging, it is ok, why not, it is much better for bloging than Joomla.
Ok, for what is Joomla better, if the big part of their community is running on non joomla extensions ???
If I like Mercedes, I will make Mercedes and I will write about Mercedes, why I will use BMW ? ... maybe because I starting feel, that my old car is not so good like before and can not fit my requirements.

Really now I dont know why use Joomla instead of other cms, I loved Joomla, but now looking for other solutions for my website, because I see Joomla put energy to wrong place.
- Heavy cms what nobody use without extensions, with extensions ussually so heavy, that you wait long time after every click on website.
I dont konw statistics, but I think, that less peapole use joomla or browse about joomla these days like before ... I think that.

I know that what I write is not world's true about Joomla, it is just my opinion, it is not attack, I dont want to attack to Joomla or Joomla comunity, just today I feel to share this my long story about what I feel long time about Joomla.

Hope nobody will take this my useless words as personal or comunity attack.

Good luck


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:03 am
Posts: 205
Location: Sydney, Australia
Firstly I'd like to point out that unlike some other projects, Joomla is completely community [drive] and all the work is done by volunteers. If there is something you don't like, then put your hand up to volunteer to help make it better. There are many ways to contribute to the project, you don't need to be a programmer.

Now if you are looking for a light weight distribution of Joomla, you might want to take a look at Squareone CMS. Essentially it's the Joomla core with a lot of things taken out, and it's stripped down to the bare minimum.
https://github.com/square-one/square-one-cms

Or if you want even lighter, you can use the Joomla Platform and write applications that run on Joomla code without any of the CMS.
http://api.joomla.org/

If you have issues with individual extension developers, I suggest you write to them with your concerns so that they can improve their product or service.

With regards to Joomla 3.0, as this is the first release in a new series it's only aimed at the early adopters. The mainstream release will be the long term Joomla 3.5 which most people should use. There is nothing wrong with Joomla 3.0, it's got some great new features, but some extension developers have not made their products compatible yet, so people building new sites may have to compromise on the extensions they want to use. Give it a few months and this wont be an issue.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:55 pm
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FlashRebel wrote:
I use Joomla for my websites few years. Long time I was not in this forum, because before I type to much, I was banned, so I stoped writing here.

Sorry, but that statement is not right. Nobody gets banned at this forum because of too much typing.
It's the kind of typing that might people get banned (continuous violating the forum rules, spam, useless messages to self promote their signature etc).

FlashRebel wrote:
When I m looking now to Joomla at all, it is heavy cms with totally slow perfomance and tons of unnecesarry things - modules, components, plugins and miss some good things there.

I have a feeling (I didn't do performance tests myself) that Joomla 2.5 performs faster then Joomla 1.5 :)
And you don't need all modules and plugins.

btw: Joomla 2.5 got rid of the Polls extension that was in Joomla 1.5 by default.
I have read some complaints about the removal, which also shows that everybody us using Joomla in a different way,
and that the developers have to find an optimum in core features vs 3rd party extension features that can be added later... :)

FlashRebel wrote:
Also third part extension are horible, half of them you can not use for good website, other part have many bugs, others stay totaly in past with functions and looking.

Yes, the quality of the 3rd party extensions varies a lot.
Because Joomla has an open source GPL license, everybody is free to extend it by creating their own extensions.
The advantage is that you have a lot of choice, the disadvantage is that it can be difficult to find the right extensions for your project.

FlashRebel wrote:
Just on starting - registration - name, username ?? for what both ??? Who like fill tons of formulars ?

You can change that yourself.

FlashRebel wrote:
Also third part extension - free, almost everywhere you need register before downloading ... for what ??? They need my email adress or my name + username ? Nobody need it, ok, if they want to do marketing, they can ask for email ... this I understand and I wil unuscribe sure after that, so its only waste of time and database.

I totally understand your feeling!

This is *not* a Joomla related issue, but a marketing related one that you will see at other sites as well.

To give away something for free, some companies want your personal details so that they can send you advertising.
With the extra generated sales from it they can finance the production of new free products,
or the marketing department can justify their expenses on the free product.

I do not like advertising at all so I use a separate email account to register at such sites.
The registration still feels like a waste of time, but at least I won't be bothered by any marketing emails in the future.
I would prefer other methods, e.g. free extensions with paid support, or free extensions with paid addons.

FlashRebel wrote:
Many extensions are for J2,5, some are for 3.0 ...what is it ? We have Joomla 3.0 and I read everywhere no to use it.
It is much better than 2,5, why no use it ? Because third party are not able to make extensions ? Then dont do 3.0 if third party can not do extensions for it.
How can I use 2,5 if 3,0 is better ? This time if I do new site, I will never use 2,5, better change extension which is ready, but never use older Joomla 2.5 because is really outdated.


I would use Joomla 2.5 for my clients because it's more stable (read: less bugs, and it's the current Long Term Support version) and there are more 3rd party extensions available.
I also use Joomla 2.5 on most of my own sites.

At the moment I would only use Joomla 3.0 on sites that need the extra functionality:
e.g. multilanguage sites that need Content Association (2.5 only has Menu Item Association) http://community.joomla.org/blogs/commu ... s-new.html
Or customers that want the nice back-end bootstrap template.

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Peter Martin, Global Moderator
http://www.db8.nl - Joomla specialist, Nijmegen, Nederland
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:55 pm
Posts: 20587
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FlashRebel wrote:
Please tell which good nice website use ''Newsfeed or Messagings or Weblinks or Wrapper or Who is online ? and other tons of unusefuly outdated toys ?
Also core of Joomla, - contect, articles and tons of toys around it, Who is it ? Who want to have good and nice website need to implement third part extensions for it and then Joomla website start be so heavy, slowly in performance and strange for users ! Strange for admin, Strange for servers and strange for our heavy databases on servers.

Joomla is being used by so many different users with so many different backgrounds for so many different kind of websites.
The current selection of Components, Modules, Plugins, Templates, Language files is a choice to give this broad group of users a good starting point to build their own site.

Note that Components, Modules, Templates and Language files that you don't use, and Plugins that are unpublished won't use any of the webservers resources, those only use some disk space...

FlashRebel wrote:
just other things, Joomla use phBB forum, it is ok, it is the best open source forum probably, why not ? nothing wrong with it. Also many members of Joomla forum and community use Wordpress for bloging, it is ok, why not, it is much better for bloging than Joomla.
Ok, for what is Joomla better, if the big part of their community is running on non joomla extensions ???
If I like Mercedes, I will make Mercedes and I will write about Mercedes, why I will use BMW ? ... maybe because I starting feel, that my old car is not so good like before and can not fit my requirements.

One of the freedoms of open source software is the freedom of choice :)

IMHO it's very good that people from the Joomla community use a broad range of other (open source) software,
because we can always learn of the good points of other software... :)

Regarding Joomla forum: For Joomla there is an excellent 3rd party forum extension called Kunena.
But that wasn't available at the start of Joomla forum in 2005, or when we switched to phpBB3 a couple of years later.

FlashRebel wrote:
Really now I dont know why use Joomla instead of other cms, I loved Joomla, but now looking for other solutions for my website, because I see Joomla put energy to wrong place.
- Heavy cms what nobody use without extensions, with extensions ussually so heavy, that you wait long time after every click on website.
I dont konw statistics, but I think, that less peapole use joomla or browse about joomla these days like before ... I think that.

I know that what I write is not world's true about Joomla, it is just my opinion, it is not attack, I dont want to attack to Joomla or Joomla comunity, just today I feel to share this my long story about what I feel long time about Joomla.

Hope nobody will take this my useless words as personal or comunity attack.

There will always be room for improvement!
However, actively helping out with improvements will be more effective
then to only state an opinion about how things should be improved.
Have you thought of a way to contribute your time and efforts within the community in improving Joomla itself?

And if you feel that Joomla is too heavy for your project, then maybe you could follow tuum's suggestion above
and try Squareone CMS: https://github.com/square-one/square-one-cms

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Peter Martin, Global Moderator
http://www.db8.nl - Joomla specialist, Nijmegen, Nederland
Linux Usergroup Nijmegen: http://www.linuxnijmegen.nl


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Quote:
They need my email adress or my name + username ? Nobody need it, ok, if they want to do marketing, they can ask for email ... this I understand and I wil unuscribe sure after that, so its only waste of time and database.

some developers use it to inform you of security updates and other bug fixes (we hope they all would do).

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:47 pm
Posts: 681
pe7er thank you for your replies, I feel, that you underastand me.
I would like to ask ... if I turn off core components, modules, plugins - it will dont use any source ? Nothing from frontend, from browser will try to search for it or try to send some details to it ?
Because when I uninstall some core components or also templates, then sometimes I catch some errors, ussualy during update joomla.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:36 am 
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FlashRebel wrote:
if I turn off core components, modules, plugins - it will dont use any source ? Nothing from frontend, from browser will try to search for it or try to send some details to it ?
Because when I uninstall some core components or also templates, then sometimes I catch some errors, ussualy during update joomla.

I would not remove Joomla's core extensions (components, modules, plugins),
I would only disable (unpublish) those in the back-end.

PS: I don't know the status of the lightweight Joomla distribution "Square One CMS" as mentioned earlier in this topic.
It looks like it hasn't been updated to include the latest Joomla 2.5.9.

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Linux Usergroup Nijmegen: http://www.linuxnijmegen.nl


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Oh, all the time I wanna log into Joomla I need resend password or put captcha or do some things what takes few minutes :(
Anywhere on internet I can choose my password how I want, just on Joomla I need milions account on every section - forum, extensions ...
Sure my password need to have one big letter at least, some number ... I nowhere use it, so I dont remember that, only here so always problems with login.
Make it simply ! This is horrible for users who dont visit Joomla site every day ten times !

Pe7er Yes, you right, I learned, that better unpublish core components than uninstall :) Also I will not use Square One CMS, it looks not updated and I maybe after few months it will die :) small community probbably there.
Oh again nervous bc. try to do something with my Joomla website, but it is almost not possible.
One poor developer of polls ask for registration, he is listed in extension of Joomla. I registered, but after 9 hours I m still not able to download it, bc. I wait for confirm my registration :D omg, this is totaly poor, I will never use any free or paid component from that kind of poor developers. So ok, they checking me, if I m not terorist maybe, but it is taking all day, still waiting, Christmas is close, so maybe they will accept my registration until end of year ... oh
... after that I try to login here, try to make reviews to extension directory of Joomla, but so many problems with login, ... this is really horrible.
Why is it so complicated here in Joomla ? It can be so simply. Oh , really it can be so simply without any trouble, I want download, I want login, why I can not do in Joomla like everywhere ??? Why I have always some trouble here ?
This is way how Joomla is loosing users, I m sure with this complicated way of working Joomla is loosing.

So today I did nothing on my Joomla website, just got idea try to remake it to Wordpress.

Anyways, Joomla 3.0 looks good, better than Joomla 2.5 , but can not use it, almost nothing ready for it, bc. it is short support ... Only few weeks ago Mosets finished new Mosets what support J2.5 :D But 3.0 is out few months, and they just finished component for 2.5, what can I say ? ... nothing ... I need to find solution for my website,

I really hope Joomla will change little bit and make things more simply, more light, more transparent ...
Joomla is now really trouble and complicated for me, I m more than sure, that for new users are totaly unusable.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:56 pm
Posts: 53
tuum wrote:
Firstly I'd like to point out that unlike some other projects, Joomla is completely community [drive] and all the work is done by volunteers. If there is something you don't like, then put your hand up to volunteer to help make it better. There are many ways to contribute to the project, you don't need to be a programmer.

Now if you are looking for a light weight distribution of Joomla, you might want to take a look at Squareone CMS. Essentially it's the Joomla core with a lot of things taken out, and it's stripped down to the bare minimum.
https://github.com/square-one/square-one-cms

Or if you want even lighter, you can use the Joomla Platform and write applications that run on Joomla code without any of the CMS.
http://api.joomla.org/

If you have issues with individual extension developers, I suggest you write to them with your concerns so that they can improve their product or service.

With regards to Joomla 3.0, as this is the first release in a new series it's only aimed at the early adopters. The mainstream release will be the long term Joomla 3.5 which most people should use. There is nothing wrong with Joomla 3.0, it's got some great new features, but some extension developers have not made their products compatible yet, so people building new sites may have to compromise on the extensions they want to use. Give it a few months and this wont be an issue.


How often do you need to update square one? I just installed it on my local system- it is Joomla! 2.5.7. is it safe to use it?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:03 am
Posts: 205
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un10cked wrote:
How often do you need to update square one? I just installed it on my local system- it is Joomla! 2.5.7. is it safe to use it?


Unfortunately Jeremy made the decision to discontinue Square One, you can read about why here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... YjoQ8d4oV4

No it is not safe to use Joomla 2.5.7, you should upgrade to the current version 2.5.17 as there have been some security issues fixed in the more recent versions.

The good news is that Andrew Eddie is forming a distributions working group to look at how Joomla can make various distributions of the CMS, and there is talk of a "Joomla Lite" distribution which would be similar to Square One. I encourage you to get involved:
http://developer.joomla.org/news/569-jo ... group.html

regards

Tim

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:03 am 
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FlashRebel wrote:
Hi all,

Long time I was not in this forum, because before I type to much, I was banned, so I stoped writing here.



I remember you. Several hundred posts per day, one word replies that contributed nothing to the topic. It was obvious that you were posting for forum rank. Didn't anyone tell you that only Webdongle gets away with that? (it had to be said, and he does contribute greatly - but he posts a lot)

Regarding your rant/post, there are many third party extensions that address the things you bring up. Eliminating username (in favor of email) is possible with 2 different extensions in the JED, one commercial and one non-commercial.

2.5 vs 3.x - easy, 3.x is the future. It's for those who want to be on the cutting edge. The problem with the cutting edge is that it's sharp - as a developer of 2.5 and 3.x extensions - I get cut by changes in 3.x way more often than I do with 2.5 extensions. The framework changes occasionally and it requires work to keep extensions up to date. If you want stability and support in the long term, you go 2.5. If you want to be a rock star on the raggety edge - you go 3.x. It's relatively simple.

There are a lot of people using the articles feature in the Joomla CMS. There are also a lot of newbies who want to have every extension under the sun installed and they're the ones that end up with ugly sites that are too busy. One of the nice things about Joomla is that there's something for everyone. Some people want it all, and eventually they regret that decision.

Whatever you were trying to say about the login module was incoherent. Some 3rd party extension didn't work? Why complain here? You'd be better served by talking to the person who wrote the 3rd party extension.

You are right about one important point - Joomla is getting heavy. Too heavy for high availability, for sure. Even the JED went down twice this past weekend. Even Rochen can't keep it running under a heavy load and they're supposedly experts.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:08 pm 
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@FlashRebel Lets help change that ! What are the 5 things you want to change about Joomla ? A lot of the change is happening..

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:11 am 
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A quicker way of login in is to use a 3pd for login with Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter accounts etc so then you don't need the reg process for your site.

What I would like Joomla to do is to make a sso Wordpress system so we also automate easy blogging with Joomla and get a larger user base that can master Joomla blogging. Joomla community or some private initiative like Rochen?

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2014/04/15/ ... 0-million/

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:47 pm
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Joomla is still going wrong way ...
in Joomla 3.3 as news are
Quote:
The 3.3 release introduces new features into the CMS such as improved password hashing and microdata and optimizes the code with performance improvements to the routing system and the continued conversion of MooTools based JavaScript to jQuery.


So now my users have beter hashed password, some microdata somewhere hidden ... but canonical turned off, bc. does not works well. So google will send me less visitors - less users, but that small amount of users have great hashed password ... this it no way how can Joomla stay alive.

Also - new feature ''Cloud storage'' ... what part of website developers will use it ? do you think more than 5% of website builder who using Joomla ?

Why coders in Joomla are focused on these ''features'' instead of repair or rebuild some core functions which works not so well ?

Also always promoted ACL ... its nice, but what part of builders use it ? Is it really so imporant for majority of Joomla builders to have different permisions for users/admins ?

It is 2014 ... Joomla need to change mind ... Its not the same like 10 years before, that someone build website as blog and had other contributors, some administrators, some publishers ... This almost does not exist today. Website on internet does not work this way, why Joomla always keep this things and some really imporant functions miss ?

Still think login with username and name is totaly oldies, useles function for 90% website developers.

If Joomla want to stay alive need to be more progressive, really progressive and forgot about core component as - Messaging, Banners, Newsfeeds, Weblinks ... Which serious popular website use these ? If even find someone who wanna use it, maybe good idea to keep this work for 3rd party extions ...

Joomla developers please take a small look at the best - Wordpress and think about it, why it is the best, why milions of users take Wordpress instead of Joomla.

Edit: one small thing what make me nervous every day - who invent, (when I log out from administration and click on bottom right on link which brings me to my frontend website) that is opened in new window ? Also I would like to know, why this person made it like that ?


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 9:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:55 pm
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FlashRebel wrote:
Also always promoted ACL ... its nice, but what part of builders use it ? Is it really so imporant for majority of Joomla builders to have different permisions for users/admins ?

I have quite a few clients who use Joomla as Inter/Intranet website. It was one of the most sought after features in Joomla 1.5. The other were Multilanguage functionality & Tags. Both have been available in Joomla 2.5 (Tags in J3) and both have been improved in the most recent Joomla 3.3.0.

FlashRebel wrote:
It is 2014 ... Joomla need to change mind ... Its not the same like 10 years before, that someone build website as blog and had other contributors, some administrators, some publishers ... This almost does not exist today. Website on internet does not work this way, why Joomla always keep this things and some really imporant functions miss ?

What really important functions does Joomla 3.x miss?

You can add functions yourself by installing 3rd party extensions.
And if you want to improve Joomla, then please help developing some code at https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms
or help with testing patches:
http://docs.joomla.org/Category:Bug_Squad
http://docs.joomla.org/Component_Patcht ... or_Testers

FlashRebel wrote:
If Joomla want to stay alive need to be more progressive, really progressive and forgot about core component as - Messaging, Banners, Newsfeeds, Weblinks ... Which serious popular website use these ? If even find someone who wanna use it, maybe good idea to keep this work for 3rd party extions ...

Yes, you are right. Some core components are probably not used much and might better be removed & available as external core extensions (uninstallable via Joomla install from web installer).

I use Banners quite often because my clients request banners on their site.
Sometimes I use Joomla's default Banners, other times I prefer 3rd party banner extensions.

The core Weblinks component will be removed soon, see "Decouple Weblinks" http://developer.joomla.org/news/583-an ... s-3-4.html

FlashRebel wrote:
Joomla developers please take a small look at the best - Wordpress and think about it, why it is the best, why milions of users take Wordpress instead of Joomla.

Actually, do you have much experience with WordPress?
If so, I can use your help! http://magazine.joomla.org/issues/issue ... umentation

FlashRebel wrote:
Edit: one small thing what make me nervous every day - who invent, (when I log out from administration and click on bottom right on link which brings me to my frontend website) that is opened in new window ? Also I would like to know, why this person made it like that ?

You can report it as bug and/or submit a patch for it at github.

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Peter Martin, Global Moderator
http://www.db8.nl - Joomla specialist, Nijmegen, Nederland
Linux Usergroup Nijmegen: http://www.linuxnijmegen.nl


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:27 pm 
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It looks good http://developer.joomla.org/cms/roadmap.html

Quote:
Remove additional components and all associated pieces. (com_newsfeeds, com_banners, com_contacts, com_search, com_finder, com_redirect, com_messages). Remove sample data from installation; place in post install.


I think its right decision to take these extension out of core Joomla


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:47 pm
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Just some interesting facts

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q= ... mla,Drupal

http://w3techs.com/technologies/overvie ... gement/all

It looks like we are dying :(

Wordpress and Drupal have target - niche ... while Joomla want to do everything :D its not possible these days. Ussually who want to do everything for everybody, do nothing for noobody on the end.

Maybe some ''titan'' inside Joomla can take resposibility and give ''goal'' for Joomla ... otherwise we will balance balance and then follow down.

Sometimes when I work with worpdress i really imagining how it could be great if some amazing themes/plugins for wordpress are fited to Joomla ...

Joomla is still so powerfull compared to Wordpress and can do much much more than Wordpres ... but in the most of case Joomla fails - ussualy bc. SEF, bugs and slowly updates, which only follow what happens in past, scare to make own standards, trends which others will follow.

Also its good to compare these two documents
http://developer.joomla.org/news/586-joomla-development-strategy.html
vs
http://wordpress.org/about/philosophy/

Also we can see how SEF url looks and how shouldn't , how many normal users can read one and how many another document.

I read Joomla roundmap , good plan there, but paintfull is that for SEF urls without bugs I need wait minimum 1 more year. Instead of SEF urls, what need everyone who install Joomla, there is higher multi-language support improvements, what use minority of users ... I think.

Why Joomla first improve minority requests than majority core ?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:54 pm
Posts: 50
Location: Slovenia
pe7er wrote:
You can add functions yourself by installing 3rd party extensions.
And if you want to improve Joomla, then please help developing some code at https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms
or help with testing patches:
http://docs.joomla.org/Category:Bug_Squad
http://docs.joomla.org/Component_Patcht ... or_Testers


Sure you can. What about all those features, which should be 100% top by default?
-top wysiwyg editor - Joomla tiny in those years still isnt capable to embed simple [youtube] and media manager is pain in the a..
-top SEO - Joomla still have problems with basic seo
-top update system - at Joomla you never know what you gonna get (who need updated osm banner?)
...

First resolve major issues with core, then suggest 3rd party.

BTW...this forum is today damn slow and almost unusable ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:56 am 
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Well I have two contributions on this which I think valid.

First, I went through a great deal of effort to create a free plugin with features not available elsewhere, and after it was automatically approved on the Joomla extensions site, an administrator there wrote 'title too long' and unpublished it. By this time it had already been sent out on the feeds so lots of interested people got 404 errors. I was very annoyed. Then I went back to see if it had been published yet. It hadnt. So I updated the description, and after I pressed the publish button, the site generated an HTTP 102 error and I cannot see the site at all. Frankly I did not even know there is such a thing as a 102 error, and it only leads me to believe someone is selling something (that I wanted to give away for free) who is also an extensions administrator and so has intentionally destroyed my work. And there seems to be nothing I can do about it at all.

Second, I went through an enormous amount of effort to get my site fast. It required disabling all the mootools, jquery, and bootstrap scripts, rewriting all the template code, and replacing all the scripts with my own on the front end, which are <10KB and do exactly the same thing. What was astonishing was how difficult it was to stop these scripts from loading, there are hooks trying to load them in all kinds of odd places, so I ended up having to write template overrides for every single component, module, and plugin I am using.

It seems to me there should be a template in the standard distribution which does not need 300KB of script files to load before it can display anything. So I would like to share a free template, but I looked around, and there is nowhere providing reliable free templates. But there are lots of people asking for money for everything.

This has made me rather cynical, which Id rather not be, but there isnt really anything i can do about it that is in any way significant any more, except to say, the core is really good. The templates and extensions REALLY SUCK. And where once there was lots of free things, now everyone wants money.
Now I want to give something away for free, and I cant even see the extensions site anymore.

So what else am I meant to think? Thank you for blowing off months of my work I was willing to give away for free?

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Ernest Meyer

http://www.yofiel.com


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:57 pm
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Location: Stockholm Sweden
Hi Ernest Meyer

hope you sort this out and can raise a question to responsible JED manager(s).

Maybe contact them here this should be the people..Maybe Hugh Douglas-Smith ? http://extensions.joomla.org/about-jed/ ... pport-team

Support Team

Processes submitted listings.
Communicates with developers when necessary to assist with listing approval.
Reviews extensions for GPL and documented "best practice" compliance.
Processes reports on extensions.
Works closely with end-users and developers to resolve reports.
Investigates copyright infringement.
Processes reviews.
Communicates with developers and end-users when issues with reviews arise.


Here is term of service for JED listings that you should comply too http://extensions.joomla.org/about-jed/terms-of-service and the checklist https://docs.joomla.org/JED_Entries_Sub ... _Checklist and name rules https://docs.joomla.org/Extensions_name

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Success in the long run Its not about the code its about the people and community that's make it!
Its not what you say its what you do that matters!

Darb - aka ssnobben


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:37 am
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But I couldn't access the extensions site at all because of the 102 error, so I could not contact the administrators. But today someone fixed it. I am only sorry I had to make so much noise on the forums.

The title of my listing passed all tests and met all requirements.I would have bene glad to change it, and there was no need to unpublish my listing because someone decided it was no good anyway. The point is, I am surely not the only person who has had such experience, but I am one of the people at least articulate enough to express the problem.

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Ernest Meyer

http://www.yofiel.com


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:05 am 
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Well good everything working and everything sorted out im the end. I mean we are all volountears from different part of the world with different mundset and communication skills. Glad you solved the problem.

Happy Eastern!

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Success in the long run Its not about the code its about the people and community that's make it!
Its not what you say its what you do that matters!

Darb - aka ssnobben


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:37 am
Posts: 296
Well today I am sad to say, I tried updating a description on a Joomla extension and it again locked me out with a 102 error. As Ive now had the problem twice, and the plugin is published, it seems clear the problem is with the Joomla server.

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Ernest Meyer

http://www.yofiel.com


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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:50 pm
Posts: 23
emeyer wrote:
Second, I went through an enormous amount of effort to get my site fast. It required disabling all the mootools, jquery, and bootstrap scripts, rewriting all the template code, and replacing all the scripts with my own on the front end, which are <10KB and do exactly the same thing. What was astonishing was how difficult it was to stop these scripts from loading, there are hooks trying to load them in all kinds of odd places, so I ended up having to write template overrides for every single component, module, and plugin I am using.

It seems to me there should be a template in the standard distribution which does not need 300KB of script files to load before it can display anything.


Wait until you see what Joomla's development community has in store....

Check point 8:
http://developer.joomla.org/cms/roadmap/11-cms/62-roadmap-archive.html

Apparently, the back-office is going to disappear!!! Everything will be managed in the front-end, meaning that, you will be stuck with all those dependencies.

Seams like Joomla is compromising scalability and customization, for user/developer laziness...


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 6:52 am 
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Joomla have come a long way and is a great stable secure CMS system with a lot of engagement from people world wide and with so many powerful 3pds extensions that make Joomla a great publishing tool for many solutions. The technical work flow for development process and guidance thinking is a huge step forward since the start 2005.

But my concern is the problem of future direction visions with the importance of the control and guidance of Joomla rapid development so it have a fit into any market(s) where is more and more competition from everywhere.

This guidance and control is different than how Wordpress and Drupal doing where control is mainly from the founder(s) that have the main influence why,how, when, where things should be done, prioritized and communicated for development. Example the UX interface project many year ago for the Wordpress project and the importance of that for making it easy to use for end users in every aspect.

Bcs Joomlas myriad Titanic dev structure and not prioritized method(s) for good and bad its more difficult to change direction, focus and easier to be out of control and synced with new market conditions and a better new future vision to be the leading Cloud Publishing platform. Of course It should be fun and exited to dev for Joomla but you must know why you are doing things and why its important. The two converses doesn't exclude each other.

Compare the development strategy of today ie the roadmap where Joomla heading http://developer.joomla.org/cms/roadmap.html

This is the dev strategy before. So how much of this have been achieved and if not why? If this not working why do this happened that Joomla can not achieve its goals and why have they changed and how was responsible for that and where is the analysis for that decision?

http://developer.joomla.org/cms/roadmap/11-cms/62-roadmap-archive.html

Roadmap [Archive]


Joomla has great plans for the future of the CMS. Below are a few of the ideas which have been raised for upcoming releases. These ideas are in no specific order.
1. Reconcile Joomla! Platform code.

Given the plans to distribute the Joomla Framework (formerly Joomla Platform) via Composer and Packagist.org, the Joomla! CMS will merge the existing platform code back under the oversight of the CMS and continue maintenance and improvements directly solely for the benefit of the CMS.

This will reduce the double handling experienced by the Joomla! Bug Squad (JBS) in fixing issues. There is also scope for the CMS to add individual Framework packages as the need arises and as CMS maintainers become more comfortable with namespaced code.
2. Roll back MVC Legacy Classes

The Joomla! CMS will roll back the JModel, JView, JController interfaces (the new MVC classes will remain if people choose to use them). This will reduce confusion and restore a well-known, familiar code structure to simplify new code development for the foreseeable future. This will require a pull request made against the existing CMS to rollback these changes. A small temporary team will be necessary to oversee this process and ensure no core functionality is broken or lost in the process and backwards compatibility is maintained.
3. Embrace Rapid Application Development

We need a team to look at ways to make extension development easier and faster and with less code by researching rapid application development principles. This will include looking at ways to consolidate code that is often repeated, through to the creation of tools to help developers write and maintain extensions.

The Joomla! CMS will create a Rapid Application Development (RAD) library to be included in the core libraries folder. This new library will provide a set of classes and functions that will enable extension developers to quickly release new code by taking advantage of a common set of code standards. This library will consist of standard utilities as can be found in existing libraries such as Framework on Framework, or other yet-to-be-determined libraries. This will require a team of volunteers that understand the required elements of a RAD library and the pros and cons of existing libraries. A new library will be created that meets the needs of the CMS as determined by this team but will not include entire libraries simply for convenience. Excess functions, legacy code and other non-essential classes and/or functions will not be included in this library in order to create the best, streamlined library with no extraneous or deprecated features.
4. Merge legacy library and Joomla! library folders

The Joomla! CMS will undertake the process of merging the legacy folder with the Joomla! library folder to ensure a single, unified library of classes and functions. This merged library will constitute the Joomla! Platform as it relates to the CMS project. This effort will require a team of volunteers committed to the process of merging files and functions with minimal backwards compatibility issues. The future of the CMS mandates that this merge be undertaken. During this process a pre-upgrade check routine will be added to the library.
5. Increase Joomla! library unit test coverage

The Joomla! CMS will undertake the ongoing process of providing unit test coverage to the Joomla! library and CMS files. This process will continue to aid in the stability of the released CMS versions and continued code improvements being made. This stage will require a dedicated team of volunteers familiar with unit testing as well as live testing of the CMS and Joomla! library.
6. Create distributions for CMS packages

The Joomla! CMS seeks to create a variety of distributions of the CMS to address a variety of common niche markets. This process will require a newly formed team to analyze and recommend specific distributions. These organized distributions of the CMS will continue to improve the packability and aid in the process of forming separate packages of the CMS. These distros will require a lead maintainer and/or volunteers to keep the base libraries current with the core Joomla! library updates as they are released. Understanding the time and effort associated with managing and maintaining multiple distributions this step will be taken with extreme discretion and all necessary precautions.
Sample distributions may include: a Barebones, or light CMS (e.g. minimal ACL) distribution, a Developer distribution, and a Standard distribution.

Information about the working group for this goal can be found at github.com/joomla-cms/start-here.
7. Unified Content Model

The Joomla CMS plans to unify all content types under a single, consistent model (sometimes called CCK or Content Construction Kit). The idea is that articles, web links, contacts and so on, are all variations of content. There is usually a common base object, and extended data that can be customised for each different type of content. This project involves determining the best API and database schema to support the content object themselves. It also requires a team to mock up how the user interface would work from content type definition, content publishing, through to the final display. This endeavor should also examine ancillary content features like content versioning and must take multi-lingual support into account. It can also lead to new niches like the ability to share content types and/or content packs.
8. Unified Page Model

The Joomla CMS will move towards having a unified approach to content pages. This would involve seamlessly integrating the menu system and the content it refers to, eliminating the middleman of having to create content and then attaching that content to the navigation. This initiative would also seek to move all content maintenance to the frontend where it can be edited in-situ ( in other words, you create the navigation and then start creating the content directly in the page).
9. Unified Site Administration

The Joomla CMS seeks to eventually remove the need for two applications: one to run the frontend and one to run the backend. All administrative functions will progressively be moved to new frontend control panels and landing pages. This single interface will build upon the unified page model described previously. All existing administrative functions would be fully access controlled as they are in the current architecture from the singular frontend interface. Existing functionality and other third party extensions would still be available.
10. New Feature Implementation

The Joomla! CMS will improve the Joomla! Ideas website ( http://ideas.joomla.org ), incorporating and encouraging new features and develop better ways to connect those ideas most supported by the community with contributors for code development. Several ideas currently being reviewed by contributors include: content tagging, extension installation direct from Joomla! Extension Directory (JED), multi-lingual extension, improved media manager, content versioning, mobile-friendly WYSIWYG editor.
11. UX and Accessibility

New features will extend beyond development aspects to also include both design and accessibility standards as well. The user experience, particularly from an accessibility perspective, will continue to be refined and improved with new administrator templates which take full advantage of the Bootstrap features of Joomla! 3.
12. Internationalisation

The Joomla CMS acknowledges the global nature of the Joomla! project and the necessity for an increased effort to improve the internationalisation of the Joomla! CMS. Joomla! will build upon the UCM and the Unified Page Model (listed above) to provide a multilingual opportunity available to extension developers and core extensions of the CMS. This internationalisation effort will provide a central location for associations and translations can be stored and implemented throughout the content.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: So why is the current development decision process good then if we can not achieve our goals and why are we out of sync with previous strategy and why?

Many coders, mostly the people in their comfort zones in an old PLT role, now protest about changes about the new development process strategies.

We need also PLT coders to communicate and have a structured way of decision making involving more control and help to take good decisions. Example before Joomla took the decision to choosing Mootools over JQuery but didnt explain the logic behind that decision more than from a technical point of view and its not always that the coders that know the best way forward for a project, organization or company even for a very important technical decision like that if you dont see know the arguments.

This decision at that time was like comparing to choose between BetaMax and VHS video system and everybody else understood what was good to choose except the few people that took that decision in Joomla world to use Mootools! Now after many years of frustration from the rest of the Joomla community Joomla have changed. How much pain did that cost Joomla users? So many decisions is not about choosing the most hip complexity solutions ( that only 1 % use) and a lot of OO functions. Its about marketing conditions how the market expect things to work on all levels for Joomla users - not only coders for coders.

My advice would be that Joomla would focus on understanding of future needs, functions, business models and future market for publishing platforms!

And this is not about the code to create a document that Joomla should fit into with that market future conditions direction and then start coding for achieving it with the ground platform Joomla already have.

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Success in the long run Its not about the code its about the people and community that's make it!
Its not what you say its what you do that matters!

Darb - aka ssnobben


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