Karma in this fórum

Do you have an idea for the Joomla community that you can help implement? Discuss in here.
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Karma in this fórum

Post by Muneo » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:02 pm

I would suggest the implementation of karma in this forum.

1) People will better help to achieve better karma.
2) This will avoid harsh response.

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by SimonHayter » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:00 pm

Karma does not scale as good as PHPBB, and phpbb has a wider community and is much better supported in general. I don't recommend any large enterprises to use Karma for a Forum.

The problem with the forums here is the template it uses and long with no extra perks like social networking icons.

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by MrBennets » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:39 pm

I like the idea. But I also agree with polo. Maybe the admins can think of something smart? :)

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by Cas87 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:28 pm

+1 for perks like social networking icons...

Possibly 'rep' or 'like' which would encourage high quality posts..

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by AppD » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:48 pm

Yeah, a rep system would work great. Karma is more of a [red dit] thing.
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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by MrBennets » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:32 am

How did it go? Anything new?

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by SunNadimpalli » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:19 am

Even a Thank You button which accumulates and shows the total number of "Thank You"s received may be good too.
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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by popacostin4 » Wed May 01, 2013 11:48 am

which are the best methods for the application of Karma? ???

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by TheCellarRoom » Wed May 01, 2013 12:42 pm

+1 for a simple thank you button/star to accumulate for users @SunNadimpalli

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by ahmad » Thu May 02, 2013 7:49 am

If you want Karma head to StackOverflow.com ... Here is a place to help people, not to get fame

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by TheCellarRoom » Thu May 02, 2013 8:46 am

it's not about fame, it's about saying thank you to users who have helped.

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by mandville » Thu May 02, 2013 2:18 pm

TheCellarRoom wrote: not about fame, it's about saying thank you to users who have helped.
which doesnt happen often enough be it via karma, post or saying [solved]
issues i see with karma.
people who arent the OP marking thanks so raising the karma level falsely
people using karma as their ranking., look my one post has 50000 thank yous as compared to your 50000 posts with only one thank you..
some people exist on this forum without helping end users.
karma flagging may not bring the post to the attntion of the helper so they wont know the topic is over.

summary - if you are going to click a small button saying +1 or whatever, then take the time to write "that solved it - thanks" its more visible and from the heart.
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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by ahmad » Thu May 02, 2013 2:20 pm

Kudos mandville!

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by TheCellarRoom » Tue May 14, 2013 1:42 pm

I think that solved it - thanks.

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by SEMaster » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:26 pm

Thank you or +1 buttons? That would be definitely nice. It only shows that one user who has many thank you's or +1s has a good reputation in this forum community. That way, new users in this forum would also know that that particular user only offers great insights.

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by drobertson123 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:21 am

The idea to promote helpful responses is a good one. To put it bluntly I haven't found this community to be overly helpful or that friendly at times.

As I was going through the newbie phase of using Joomla I would often post a question and get no response at all. Sometimes I would just get a snarky response. It was extremely frustrating and almost put me off from using Joomla at all.

As I was learning it was very common to get a response from the Joomla community of "You should have Googled it better!". It is very hard to Google something when you don't even understand the basic terms. I had watched videos and read tutorials, but it was still hard. All I needed was a bit of guidance. In the same time it took for people to be jerks they could have said "just look over here". The responses were rude. It wasn't all specifically from this forum, but Joomla sites in general. This forum should set the standard and tone for the whole community.

Joomla grows by increasing and improving its community. Every user who gets driven away is another person who won't be there to help someone in the future or who will not create an extension or fix a bug.

You can be critical of StackOverflow if you want, but I have gotten more help on Joomla questions there than I have here. That is just sad.

Even in this suggestion it seems people are more inclined to rip apart the suggestion than to add good ideas that would improve the situation.

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by stutteringp0et » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:15 am

I often read the forum unanswered posts link - and answer quite a few questions.

Looking at your unanswered questions - you have exactly 2 unanswered (which doesn't equal "often"), one of which I'm going to answer now. The other doesn't really have an answer - every developer does settings their own way.
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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by drobertson123 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:30 pm

I appreciate your answers. The one about login redirect may be very helpful. Thank you.

Aside from your help, I do stand behind my comments about the Joomla community in general having a bad attitude and being less friendly. I rarely get an answer in a reasonable amount of time (5-10 days) and also rarely get a useful answer. The posts I did get an answer for often didn't see a reply for a month or more, at which point I had to move on.

In a few of my posted questions I eventually found the answer and posted back some information on my own question so others could benefit from what I found. I find it very rare to actually get helpful advice in these forums.

As I browsed other posts for answers a was amazed at the large number of antagonistic replies people got. For a new person asking a basic question a nasty reply was the rule rather than the exception. These are the exact people we should be welcoming and giving a little guidance to get started. In most of the situations where a new user got a snide remark it would have been much less effort to just say go look here and you should find what you need.

This attitude is not just in the Joomla forum, it is also found extensively in the support forums of template and extension providers. I had one extension provider that is extremely popular berate me with about 5 posts in his forum for asking what he felt was a stupid question. A two line answer would have been all I needed and I would have felt very satisfied. I have seen this same attitude in multiple locations and it all reflects badly on the Joomla community.

I have programed in many other systems and languages (regrettably little PHP) and during that time I have been active on several support forums. Most of the time people were very supportive and helpful. They understood that helping new people improved to community in the long run and were willing to put in the small effort to make people feel welcome.

Earlier in this post stackoverflow.com was derided because it used Karma to get people to be helpful to each other. They said that this was a location to help people and not collect Karma. The problem with that is that stackoverflow is actually a better place to get help on Joomla issues than Joomla's own forums are. We should learn from them and make this better. This forum doesn't even have an easy system for marking a question as solved. That just seems like a basic place to start and there is a lot of room to go from there.

I am really not trying to be rude about this, but I am worried where the Joomla system is heading. I want Joomla to succeed and it will take a strong community and lots of new faces to make that happen. The adoption numbers of Joomla vs Wordpress and Drupal are pretty bad and unless something is done they will just get worse. The community is the first place to start and everyone can help out just by being a little friendlier and more welcoming.

As I improve my skills I will do my part by helping answer questions and being a friendly voice. It would be good if more people would do the same.

-Doug

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by stutteringp0et » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:47 pm

I understand what you're saying, and I've experienced the same thing. At one point, I determined that I likely knew more than the people I was asking - so on the rare occasion that I have a question, I'll post it, followed by my research, and finally my resolution. I have started and finished several threads with no input (or no helpful input, sometimes antagonism) from others.

One of my favorite threads is one I started regarding overriding core classes without altering core files. I was met with criticism for even contemplating such a thing, then skepticism that any such thing was possible, afterwards I was made to feel silly for even trying. Of course, the thread ended with my description of how I accomplished it.

As far as antagonistic responses, I've seen those too - and usually they're a result of a question that's been asked countless times.

Don't forget, this isn't just the Joomla forum - it's the Internet, the wild wild west where you're as likely to meet a like-minded individual as a venom spewing sociopath. Everyone wears a mask to depict the person they want you to believe they are - a helpful traveler, or an all-powerful code sorcerer.

Back to the idea of a karma system - if such a system were in place, people would arise to game that system.
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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by drobertson123 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:58 am

I agree that we live within the internet and anything can come from that. There is no control over who shows up. That can be both good and bad. You are also right that a karma system will be gamed by people who want to play those games. Even with those issues we shouldn't give up on improving things.

It seems like ideas to start fixing problems are shot down instead of tried. No one seems willing to accept that there is a problem with this community or that anything should be done to make things better. The hard facts are that less people want to use Joomla every month. The trends show Joomla failing over the long run. If the community diminishes too far we won't have volunteers to add features, create extensions, fix bugs and stay up with the current level of technology needed by users.

I really do like the Joomla platform and don't want to see that happen. Joomla can be a bit flimsy at times but at its core it is very good. It is better than wordpress in so many ways. None of that matters if we drive away new users by being rude and disrespectful.

Maybe a Karma system isn't the perfect solution, but it would at least be a place to start. Right now there is no feedback system at all. There should be something in place that tells people who are being rude that their attitudes are not wanted and says we appreciate people who are helpful. These are basic tools that help a community regulate itself.

There are things that should be done beyond that. If there are questions that are frustrating due to the frequency they get asked then those would be great subjects to turn into a solid FAQ. Everyone should be able to give a polite link to those resources when a newbie asks the question.

Comprehensive and clear documentation should also be a priority. Joomla's documentation is honestly a mess. It is almost impossible to figure out if the document you are looking at was written about your version or only applied to a version 4 releases ago. Another good resource would be a suggestion box that does a search of documentation based on what is being written in the forum post. This is very possible to do these days and would cut down on frivolous questions considerably.

Just the ability to mark a question as solved would be a major change. You mentioned that you look at unanswered questions and try to be helpful. But in many cases I get a second post that says they are looking far an answer also. My problem isn't even close to getting solved, but there are replies so it doesn't come up as unanswered. Helpful people should be able to find unsolved issue to help people with.

I could go on, but my point is that there are many opportunities to improve and if we don't Joomla will eventually not have a strong enough user base to survive. Maybe not tomorrow, but it won't take as long as you may think. The internet is littered with dead CMS systems.

If there are enough people who feel this way I am willing to volunteer some time.

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by Chamira Athauda » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:41 am

@drobertson123 - I think you are being a bit pessimistic about the survival chances of Joomla, but on the whole your points are very valid and I have been thinking about them for sometime.

Of the several things that is getting Joomla some bad press, one is the helpfulness of this forum. I have seen it discussed in LinkedIn, where the prevailing view was that they can get their problems answered better there than here. This is because there is an incentive on LinkedIn to promote yourself/company and even offer commercial help. It is a social network for business and they allow monetisation/promotion.

I am not saying it should be followed here, but it is something to take note.

Of course, small communities built around specific purposes can offer better support - or at least user can feel they are being listened to - which is a huge psychological boost.

On a large community board like this standard 'newbie' questions do get ignored. The simplest way would be to have several moderators monitor just these types of questions and point the users to posts/threads/documentation where these questions have been answered.

It would also help to ask from every person that is making some use, especially making money, out of using Joomla to contribute a few hours a week or month to go on the forums and help.

I would suggest this as a regular campaign through Joomla Community Magazine and User Groups - encourage it as the most basic way to give something back to the community - people can start as soon as they have figured out how to change a banner on a stock template, because it is question that gets asked a lot!

Make people realise it is that easy to give something back and become a part of an open source tech community.

Another major issue that will have an long term effect on how Joomla is perceived in the outside world is that currently Joomla is very much a free lunch for many unskilled freelancers - they feel that can charge a premium rate for what think Joomla is about: installing a free template and doing a bit of cut & paste.

I see this happening all the time - clients pay significantly more for a shoddy Joomla site than a half decent Wordpress site and they are left with something they don't understand how to maintain, and the original 'developer' didn't really either.

So, if you trawl through freelancing sites, there are exponentially more jobs for converting a Joomla site to Wordpress than the other way around.

This will kill Joomla off quicker than anything else.

And the only way to combat it is to really fast track the Joomla site-builder/developer/admin certifications that have been discussed for many months.

There is an attitude in the Joomla community leaders that everyone using Joomla are as self-less as they are, and it simply isn't true. People have egos and motivations other than community altruism and it is time to address that.

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by drobertson123 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:48 am

@Coruja

I am glad to hear another voice saying this, thank you for that. Maybe if enough people start discussing the issues something may change.

You bring up a good point about LinkedIn. Help doesn't have to be noble, it just has to be useful. I wouldn't mind at all if there was some incentive for people to be helpful on here. It would be sad if this turned into a pit of spam, but giving freelancers and extension writers the ability to put up a logo and link to a web page for their services would be a perfectly fine trade off if that meant people got better and faster help. I think being helpful and demonstrating their skills would be an outstanding way to promote their services and help the community at the same time.

The certification program also sounds like a solid idea that should be implemented as soon as possible. Every open source project that gets to a certain critical mass needs to start organizing and policing itself at some point. There needs to be someone maintaining order in what would otherwise be an unruly mob. I really don't think Joomla has taken that step yet.

One thing that has always bothered me is the chaotic way extensions fit in with the Joomla system. When I install an extension I always have to figure out how to configure it, how it will affect other extensions and the main system. Did the programmers overwrite some core component, making it a mess to do upgrades, etc... This is another area where new users can get extremely frustrated and go away from Joomla. A set of standards and certifications would be very handy in this area also.

I like the idea you have of pushing community support. If the Joomla community leaders would step up and start communicating what is needed I think they would get people behind them. It really wouldn't take much effort to change things.

As for my doom and gloom prediction for Joomla. I may or may not be right, but the overall trends are dismal. WordPress is going strong and even Drupal is seeing interest pick up. Joomla on the other hand is on a strong path down. Obviously this isn't the whole story, but the Google Trends analysis lately is interesting;

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q= ... C%20drupal

The thing I worry about is the new site adoption rate dropping to a point where the main extension providers start giving up. Combine this with fewer people contributing to the coding and community efforts. The result would be a collapse of the Joomla ecosystem and a large migration to other platforms. WordPress is currently getting the money, community support and coding efforts due to their rising popularity and that is really hard to beat. My rough estimate is 3-5 years for this to happen unless something significant changes. Joomla would still exist at that point, but it would be a shell of what it is now.

I am not saying this because I want it to happen. I want Joomla to thrive and be successful, but I think it is what will happen unless something is changed. Joomla's popularity is now at the lowest level it has seen since Feb 2006 and they just released a new version. That should be a wake up call.

If anyone else has some ideas it would be great to hear them.

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by bunina » Thu May 08, 2014 6:02 pm

One of my favorite threads is one I started regarding overriding core classes without altering core files. I was met with criticism for even contemplating such a thing, then skepticism that any such thing was possible, afterwards I was made to feel silly for even trying. Of course, the thread ended with my description of how I accomplished it.

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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by stutteringp0et » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:43 am

@bunina

If you're going to quote me without attributing to me, don't do it in the thread you're quoting me from.
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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by toivo » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:20 am

There are users or bots that just copy sections from previous posts, unfortunately, and then probably start spamming.
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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by stutteringp0et » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:01 pm

That makes sense...
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Re: Karma in this fórum

Post by kdaniel171 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:26 pm

Karma? I prefer to hit the "Thanks" button if someone contributed valuable information in the forum.


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