Lets talk about the Joomla Cache

flashgordonweb · Post by **flashgordonweb** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:20 pm

Here is the error I get every once in awhile. Like I said, I just go into Maintenance > Purge Expired Cache and that fixes it.

JCacheStorageFile::_deleteFolderFailed deleting 85c653511c30cf7d5ad3e48e48f8ee4b-cache-com_content-446e3ae113cbaebd5ead1392a706702f.php

wernejo · Post by **wernejo** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:21 am

but the question i have been asking myself for ages is "what is a big site"?

compered to a few years ago a big site was considered anything with more than 15 html pages. these days i build websites with a minimum of 15 pages and anything up to 30 pages or more.

so is a big websites based of the number of pages or the file size and possess its running?

sure you might have 1500 articles but with the cache settings your running you could almost call it a small website cause of its loading speed.

also, when using gzip, is this something you need to activate from the start of the building process or is it something you can activate at any time?

flashgordonweb · Post by **flashgordonweb** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:07 pm

Hi wernejo, I agree, there is no definition of a "big site." Mine has 15,000 articles, not 1,500. The size of the database is 900mb. As for gzip, I activated it around 12,000 articles, when I migrated from 1.5 to 2.5

If you are under 100 articles, then your site should load instantly unless you have large images or tons and tons of modules. But so far Joomla seems pretty good with "larger sites" as long as you don't clog them up with lots of modules.

wernejo · Post by **wernejo** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:58 pm

flashgordonweb wrote:I agree, there is no definition of a "big site."

Hi Flash Gordon,

maybe we are looking at this "big site" definition in the wrong way. when you mentioned the size of the database it occurred to me that its not the ammount of content that is stored on the website but rather how much of the content is viewed and loaded

think about it, if your website has 15,000 articles and people are looking at only a small fraction of that then the website will only need to load and cache a small part of the website thus the speed is faster cause the cache isnt been pushed to the limits.

if the same website was to have the same amount of traffic but people where looking at all the pages rather than a small fraction then the cache would be larger because it would have cached more.

i think the best way to determine if a website is big or small is to judge it by the number of visitors times by the number of page views and divided by the number pages on your website.

I'm not sure if this formula is the correct one but i think something similar to this would let us start a system where we can determine the size of a website. then using this scoring system we can then workout what settings we need to use. if this system dose become effective we can then use it to help others with their cache settings without making the process hard or difficult to understand. i honestly think we can come up with a method of simplifying the cache setup.

LTCreations01 · Post by **LTCreations01** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:13 pm

Wernejo - and others

Thanks, Wernejo, for creating this thread. However, I see it's been nearly a year since anybody has posted.
It's now March 2013 and I've spent the last 4 months developing a directory site (with very few article pages) that has nearly 2,000 categories (including sub-categories). Currently, in order to get all the "bugs" worked out, I've limited the listings to about 1,000. Eventually, I plan on over 20 million listings - no, I'm not kidding.

So, Wernejo, however you want to measure "size of a site", I'm sure I'm going to fit into any definition.

In the last few weeks I've been beating my head against the wall trying to figure out what will speed up a J2.5.9 site. To add a HUGE hurdle to the already complex issue, I have SobiPro (Sparrow 1.0.8 ) installed. I also have Core Design Accordion software, Akeeba Backup and Subscriptions, Xmap, Ace Polls, and JCE.

I'm not currently using any additional cache software beyond the Joomla default. However, reading through all of the posts here, it seems there may be at least 1 extension that may increase my speed.

Here's what I know - after a lot of research...and anybody who has evidence that will correct my findings, please...post it so that we all can know better.

First, for the novice, no cache means everything in the site is generated every time there is a request (i.e. click on pages; images; etc.).
With cache enabled, pages, content, images are all generated 1 time, stored and served when a user request (by clicking on a link to something) from "memory", so to speak, so that it's not newly created from the database every time the user clicks on a page.
If the site pages change every few hours, then cache may not be a wise choice for your site.
If the majority of your site doesn't change but every few weeks, months, or ??, cache is going to serve your pages nearly immediately.

If you don't already know, SobiPro is a memory hog. After months of investigation as to which foundation to use, whether free, paid, open-source or anything else, I concluded that SobiPro is the best option available to date.
It's not a matter of what software you like. It's a matter of what will provide what the public needs, what the site would be capable of producing in the way of results, and the ease of functions for the public.

There are 3 places for cache settings, unless you include the options within those 3:
1. Site > Global Configuration > System (on the right under "Cache Settings")
2. Extensions > Plugin Manager > (filter) System > System Cache
3. Extensions > Module Manager > select the module you want in order to "SEE" if you can turn off cache for that specific module. Usually in the "Advanced Options" you can select "Caching > Use Global" or "No caching".

Plugin cache will break SobiPro. If you are using SobiPro, you won't be able to search but 1 time. Each subsequent search will reveal the results from the first search. Sigsiu, the developers of SobiPro, admit this is a problem with SobiPro and "hope" to have it resolved when SobiPro 1.1 is released..."sometime" perhaps in 2013.
So, you can't turn on plugin cache if you are using SobiPro.

If you do not use SobiPro, there is still a possibility that "something" you have installed may not work if you enable plugin cache.
The reason?
The plugin cache sets the cache for everything in Joomla - it's a global cache setting, if you will. It enables cache in plugins, modules, and everything else.
So if you enable this, it's a matter of using every part of your site the way you intend users will in order to find out if anything will be negatively effected.

With the Global Configuration, you are, basically, setting cache for articles and pages, but not modules and plugins.

The Global Configuration has 3 settings. Cache >
OFF - Caching disabled
ON - Conservative caching = this allows you to go to a specific module and turn off caching. It does not cache as much data as Progrressive.
ON - Progressive caching = sets cache for everything, similar to plugin cache, and will probably hinder the speed performance of a "large" site instead of increasing speed performance.

If you do not have SobiPro installed, then using plugin cache may be a great way for you to do, as long as you "test" everything on the front-end before expecting users to be happy with how the site performs.

In this site using SobiPro, I've turned on "Conservative caching", turned on caching for a plugin that simply displays changing images, turned OFF plugin cache, which is off in Joomla by default, and turned on Site > Global Configuration > Server > GZip page compression.

BUT...there is 1 very important thing that has not been discussed here as it needs because there is a definite correlation with the speed of large sites and...SEF.
With the Joomla 2.5 default SEF enabled, the site suffers horribly. Pages can take upwards of a minute to load.

With the above cache settings mentioned, SEF disabled, the pages in the site now render in less than 3 seconds (if you have been to other pages in the site, or under 5 seconds if not - which is something I'm testing to see if increasing cache time will resolve) - EVEN the slow SobiPro category pages. CityDirectoryOnline.com
Especially when going to "Extended Search" to prepare for searching SobiPro, I'm impressed with the significant increase in speed due to the above settings. SEF was perhaps the most significant change, although the cache settings were "very" significantly noticed in changing the speed of the page render time.

With a Joomla 1.5 site that belongs to one of my clients, she has more than 2,000 pages, includes WordPress linked to Joomla, all default settings in Joomla, no cache settings whatsoever, and her pages render in less than 3 seconds - Support4Change.com - try it and let me know what you find.
I mention this because I think having a Joomla site that is "just articles" is entirely different than a Joomla site that uses a lot of hard-core additional software.
I use Joomla in many sites I own and for clients. The City Directory project is the ONLY site I've ever had to do so much research in order to get the site working fast.

Now here is the unknown, for me at least.
How long should the cache time be set in System > Cache Settings > Cache Time?
The Joomla default is 15 - which is minutes.
According to a test site, http://gtmetrix.com/ (referenced elsewhere in this thread), setting the cache time to at least 1 week is supposed to significantly increase the speed of the site.
I'm still testing that theory.
Any thoughts on that?

Any thoughts on any of this?
I hope it helps those with similar situations, although I don't know that anybody is making a directory site, and certainly not one with more than 20 million listings.

Cheers to all.

Abcplumb · Post by **Abcplumb** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:37 pm

WoW

Here I was thinking I'm finally understanding joomla and now I've come across this cache subject.
I hope all these knowledgeable joomla experts

can help me out here.
I have 2 web site, ones is on 1.5.26 and the other is on 2.5.11
I would like to know what cache setting should I have on these sites.
Both sites are small with not a great amount of visitors a day. I get around 5-10 a day.
Can someone please recommend the setting I should have.
You help is appreciated guys.

LTCreations01 · Post by **LTCreations01** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:56 pm

In MHO....

With small sites, meaning very few pages and very little traffic, cache is of little value. Your pages should load very fast without any cache.

If you have a lot of information that is accessed quite often, and you want that information/page to load as fast as possible, then you could use cache, although I wouldn't recommend that.

Cache is usually reserved for a site that has more than (roughly) 1,500 pages, or has a "lot" of information/data/images in the few pages of the site.

I've got 1 client who has more than 2,000 pages, images, a lot of things going on in her Joomla! 1.5 site, but doesn't even "know" about cache. And yet, her pages and the entire site is very fast loading.
Could she improve the site with cache enabled? Maybe. But if pages load in less than 3 seconds, it's not worth the time to figure out the settings for enabling cache.

Accessing information is fast, unless one completely screws up the workings of a site and how it interacts with a database. I've seen a few of those sites, but they don't have any valuable information anyway.
If your site is working fast, don't mess with the cache.

And, so we're clear, cache is not just a Joomla! issue. It's "across-the-board" with any dynamic site. Sites like Google, with all that information, use many servers working in tandem, have database experts working full-time at how to index the "right" data in the database in order to speed up the system, and they make changes to it all when they have variations of how they are presenting the data.

But sites like yours would be "best" served using no cache. So, that means you don't need to figure out where or how to deal with cache.

You can test the speed of your site here GTMetrix
Unless you feel very comfortable in making htaccess and cache settings changes in Joomla!, you would be well advised to take the test results and consider that you are doing very well. I would bet (with a site as simple as yours) you'll get pretty high marks with a default Joomla! installation.

Again, this is all in MHO...others may feel free to interject.

Cheers.
Thomas

Abcplumb · Post by **Abcplumb** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:00 am

Hi Tomas

Really appreciate your reply.
I've done the test and here are the results:

Page Speed Grade: C (78%)
YSlow Grade: D (67%)
Page load time: 3.32s
Total page size: 1.40MB
Total number of requests: 56

I'm not sure what this means but I would like to get to A grades

Is there anything you can recommend.
Thanks
Al

LTCreations01 · Post by **LTCreations01** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:45 am

Hi Al,

Achieving an "A" grade, in general, means you'll need to know a great deal about how to edit your htaccess, database, as well as the various places of Joomla!

If you are trying to make whatever changes possible in order to get "as-good-as-possible" without the need to go to school for training, or to take the next several months to ingrain yourself in tech books to teach yourself all about database programming and such, then I suggest you stick with a few changes that can easily be done within Joomla!

After you log in to your admin panel, you'll want to enable the cache. In 1.5, that's done by:
Site > Global Configuration > System > Cache Settings
I'd leave it at the default 15 minutes, then select the "Yes" radio button.
Personally I've never used the cache in 1.5 to tell you whether it's worth the time trying. But you can test again after you turn on the cache using the above. Beyond that I wouldn't recommend getting more involved. You'll need to be migrating that site soon anyway.

For Joomla! 2.5:
Log in and go to Site > Global Configuration > System Cache Settings > Cache
Select "ON - Conservative caching"
If you select "ON - Progressive caching" you could run into more trouble. That setting is for very large sites.

There are other places within J2.5 to enable additional cache, but for now, I suggest you use that information, run some new tests, and then see where you are.
If there are very insignificant changes, "do not" go further. That's perhaps the best you'll get.
If you see "significant" improvement, then you may want to consider the other couple of areas in J2.5, but I'll wait to see what you find out first.

Good luck. And, do consider migrating that 1.5 site soon.

Cheers.
Thomas

Abcplumb · Post by **Abcplumb** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:52 pm

Hi Thomas

Thanks again for your help.
I want to migrate the site, but the template I'm using has not been updated for 2.5 yet.
I've been waiting for sometime.

I really hope Joomart sort it out soon.

LTCreations01 · Post by **LTCreations01** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:02 pm

Chances are that they company is waiting to adjust for J3.5 and will bypass 2.5 since the release for 3.5 is so close.
If your template is not overly complicated I might suggest you look for something that is more up-to-date and will allow you to move forward into J3 or 3.5 soon.

Abcplumb · Post by **Abcplumb** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:28 pm

Yes Thomas your right, I'll have to do this soon.
I want to know do you display a feed module on your site?
As I am having trouble displaying a feed. From the research I've done it seems to be a cache problem which people have solved using a 3rd partly plug-in.
It doesn't make sense using a 3rd partly plug-in to solve this issue.
I would like to know what you think.

LTCreations01 · Post by **LTCreations01** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:42 pm

Whether the feed works or not has a lot to do with the template you use. I use a lot of Artisteer templates and often the feed doesn't work.
Most of the newer templates work fine. But it all depends on what you "think" the feed should be doing. That said, there are not very many people using feeds these days. It was something pretty popular before 2010 and has dropped off as something of value since to a point where today, if you don't have a feed, nobody notices...IMHO

nottsjoomla · Post by **nottsjoomla** » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:50 am

Caching can improve page load time on any website.

You can disable or modify cache time for modules in the parameters.

If your template company has skipped updating to 2.5 then assume that updates for your template are dead and move on.

You can enable gzip at any time, it only changes the way the files are sent from your server (compressed for faster download).

Take the htaccess rules from the html5 boilerplate to speed up lots of other things (it enables leverage browser caching for starters).

RSS and atom feeds can be very valuable.

And most importantly - never use artisteer to make a template. It outputs garbage. If you can't create one then buy one from a reputable company which matches your needs.

kauselot · Post by **kauselot** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:38 pm

Indeed there is a lack of documentation on Joomla caching.

On the question of progressive vs. conservative caching - main difference is in the way how modules rendering is cached (or not), this thing takes a large amount of time to process so it gets cached in progressive mode, but it may break some modules that have dynamic features.

Here you can find some more detailed explanation http://www.bzzzz.biz/blog/joomla/joomla ... ries.bzzzz and http://www.bzzzz.biz/blog/joomla/joomla ... es-2.bzzzz - second link is more developer oriented.

simit · Post by **simit** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:48 pm

Hi
Before I change the format of the site without having to enable the Joomla Cache for the second time that I visit the site had been loaded earlier
But now I changed the format of the site is the same as the cache was enabled (without altering storage time) but had no effect!
What should I do?

ionamartin123 · Post by **ionamartin123** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:41 am

I believe that.The problem is to be occur the front end and back end suddenly changed.The speed is to be differ.

Chamira Athauda · Post by **Chamira Athauda** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:44 am

This is an invaluable thread, hopefully someone can use this information to update the Joomla documentation on caching which is completely useless.

The most up-to-date explanation I found so far is this page: http://www.cloudaccess.net/joomla-3-0/1 ... ching.html

Let's keep talking about this topic, it is increasingly becoming important now that everyone is going mobile.

teichfeld · Post by **teichfeld** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:03 pm

This forum is OK for talking about how cache and other options speeds up the site, what it does not address, is that the Joomla 2.5 cache is broken. I have a custom module, implemented the advanced param fields for the cache and have set my cache option from 'use global', to 'no cache'.

My modules code does not even get called when the page loads, all modules are rendered from the cache.

My module is a rotator, that needs to serve up different content from the database on every page load.

How do I fix this?

Slackervaara · Post by **Slackervaara** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:40 pm

I read this thread to get opinions of JotCache that is the community choice of extensions. Is it worth to install this and will it speed up my site? As it is community choice is should be better than the regular cache.
http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions ... ache/13155

uaintgotthisid · Post by **uaintgotthisid** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:47 pm

Guys thanks for all of the valuable information, this is the most I've felt like I understand Joomla! cache. Some really useful articles. Having read the Jotcache reviews I'm definitely going to give that a try. It'd be really nice to have one of the top Joomla! contributors opinions on this too though.

I've always found that cache broke my system, but I really need to give it a try. For the record, just using Chrome and using the inspect element feature, along with the console I found that using Akeeba Admin Tools .htaccess compression worked better than using the Joomla Gzip compression, and combining both made things worse.

I would love to do a full study on this, but I'm not 100% sure on the testing process, however, there are some great links I could use to facilitate this. Cheers all.

Milkoviz · Post by **Milkoviz** » Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:01 pm

Maybe it's just me but I've never found cache that important with any of my sites. My sites aren't the biggest in business though. I've tried to play around with it and used cache cleaner but I really didn't notice any major improvement. My pages load fast without it.

roadwarrior · Post by **roadwarrior** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:46 am

Great post. I Spend days working on cache.

System plugin & progressive cache doesn't work for me. Most of my site is dynamic.

kardinol · Post by **kardinol** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:23 pm

Cache: http://docs.joomla.org/Cache

tenbartek · Post by **tenbartek** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:48 am

I am just confused cause of cache related to Joomla!
No matter if there is on/off set in the setting there is allways cache to be clean in tools after you provide some modification in a article.

Slackervaara · Post by **Slackervaara** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:02 pm

Remember your web browser have a cache too. If you hit the F5 key you can by pass the browser cache.

wernejo · Post by **wernejo** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:43 am

F5 only refreshes the page you're on. if you press Ctrl+F5 then you delete the browser cache and refreshes the page.

the apprentice · Post by **the apprentice** » Mon May 04, 2015 4:36 pm

duanemitchell wrote: To "Leverage Browser Caching" I added this code to my htaccess file:
Code: Select all
<IfModule mod_headers.c>
Header unset ETag
Header unset Last-Modified
</IfModule>
FileETag None
<FilesMatch "\.(ico|gz|JPG|jpg|jpeg|png|gif|js|css|swf)$">
Header unset Cache-control
Header set Expires "access plus 1 month"
</FilesMatch>
The above seems to work with every site and has gotten good results.

I've added this code at the end of my .htaccess but ti doesn't seem to make much difference, maybe I'm doing something wrong or the newest Joomla! versions don't need these codes anymore?

wernejo · Post by **wernejo** » Mon May 04, 2015 11:41 pm

What version of Joomla are you running?

When I started this conversation Joomla 2.5 was the current version but now with 3.4.1 been out we should probably start talking about what's new in that version.

As far as I can tell nothing has changed but could someone confirm that please?

the apprentice · Post by **the apprentice** » Tue May 05, 2015 3:04 am

I'm running 3.4.1 too. I just didn't want to start a new thread as it's probably still relevant in current Joomla!.
Maybe I was a bit rushy to say it didn't make much difference, Google insight test now gives me slightly better results (74/100 for mobile and 53/100 for desktop), not great but a bit better than before.

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