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I just realize that this quote is true



All my confidence in testing multilingual native is COMPLETLY DOWN — This is unacceptable,,,


I’m really close to abandon Joomla all together.... This is ridiculous — Tell me it’s a bug , anything....

HELP!

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God help us!

Have you tried the menu associations? This feature allows you to associate menu items across various content languages.

Once you enable the option Menu Associations in the plug-in "System - Language Filter", you would see a tab/slide in the menu items to associate menu items of other languages.

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- Ilagnayeru (MIG) Manickam
http://www.eegan.org - helping the poor and underprivileged
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Support the poor and underprivileged

Also read the wiki and tutorials.
It is explained everywhere:
"Joomla 1.6-1.7-2.5 include a basic way to implement a multi-language site. This feature does not work as an association-type display where each content, whatever it is, has an equivalent in another language. it does not replace other multi-lingual extensions managers [...] "
http://docs.joomla.org/Language_Switche ... Joomla_1.6

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Jean-Marie Simonet / infograf · http://www.info-graf.fr
Multilanguage in 2.5: http://help.joomla.org/files/EN-GB_multilang_tutorial.pdf
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Joomla Translation Coordination Team • Joomla! Production Working Group

This is great! Tell me if I’m wrong....

I’m trying to grasp what exactly happening here!.

Just a note here:
I think that any CMS today (more than ever) need a perfect multilingual motor. Without a solid multilingual ability any CMS will extremely rapidly fall to oblivion... The world is a now a multilingual place.
Joomla 1.5 and Joomfish bring together the success of the entire Joomla platform.
Joomla without Joomfish will be long gone to history.

I don’t want to be pessimistic here but look at those Google Trends
—> http://www.google.com/trends/?q=Drupal,+Joomla,+Wordpress
and look at the nice sharp drop for Joomla.... (Just a thought...)


Back to the subject...
Ok, In that Joomla.org page about the Language Switcher at http://docs.joomla.org/Language_Switcher_Tutorial_for_Joomla_1.6

I can read clearly (about the Language Switcher)


Question 1— My first question will be (as I’m confused by the menu association abilities) With only the native Joomla multi-language abilities can you have a multilingual site that will behave as it should in the front end... Meaning in any part of the site, if you switch languages you will see that part in the chosen language without coming back to the Home page?
A simple Yes or No is good here...



If Yes, I will start to change color from a livid pale gray to something a little bit more rosy.

If No it mean that the onboard native multilingual of Joomla 2.5 is useless as it completely defy the logic of a frontend user to switch any part of a site in his preferred language without falling back on the Home page.

I think No CMS in the world do that...
More..., this behavior kill completely the frontend edition as it will make totally frustrating for any editor to jump around trying to frontend edit even a small site with multilingual content.


I take a brake here... (if the answer is No and without bringing third party extension)
Let’s be frank here.... What bring native Joomla 2.5 in multilingual ability? I will say absolutely nothing...
Strike 1 — impossible to make a professional modern ergonomic multilingual site and present a ridiculous scheme to edit that site in frontend

Strike 2 — The ridiculously complex mechanic of editing and managing any multilingual content in the backend is completely opposite of how a CMS should behave.



If I’m right, and tell me if I’m please... All that mean that the onboard multilingual motor in Joomla is TOTALLY useless?




Step 2 of the equation... this one is almost funny — >

The same article say:


Joomla cannot choose better wording as Joomfish is not even usable for 2.5 and still far to be ready for production site and seem in an uncertain future.



I can tell you right now what the only possibilities for a multilingual Joomla are.

You got 2 class:
And they are all relatively new components that need lot of refinement to propels any serious solution...

SOLUTION 1— One that use the onboard native Joomla multilingual with 2 extensions

• Josetta — 1.2.4.350 (last update on Jun 27, 2012)
by a serious Joomla player — Anything Digital (I have to test it more...)
http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/languages/multi-lingual-content/20136
Good:
- Help a lot to centralize the native Joomla mess
Not Good:
- Commercial only
- No backend translation, No stats
- Probably carry the same frontend switching flaws as the native Joomal do (anyway my test site does, I will look to it..)
– Seem Slow to upgrades, small changes
- Support somewhat rude and fast to close tickets, but The Dev’s seem responsive and open
- Not really ready for a pro site (bugs and all)
- No real components/module support yet (Only k2, but on the good side simple xml way)

• KMFasTrans 1.3.1 (last update on Aug 31, 2012)
http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/languages/multi-lingual-content/20640
Good: (I have to test it more...)
- Help a lot to centralize the native Joomla mess
- Fantastic concept of translation sets that regroup set of Joomla content that are related at the translation level
- Really responsive and pro support and welcome to suggestion
- Upgrade regularly
- Don’t carry the same frontend switching flaws as the native Joomal do - I have to investigate
Not Good:
- This is the only joomla component those guys have (maybe a good thing???)
- No frontend translation, No stats
- Not really ready for a pro site (bugs and all)
- No real components/module support yet ( They working on it)

2— One that mostly bypass the onboard system[/b (that appear useless anyway...]

[b]• Falang
Good: (I have to test it more...)
- Help a lot to centralize the native Joomla mess
- more like a 2.5 Joomfish
- Upgrade regularly
- don’t carry the same frontend switching flaws as the native Joomal do
Not Good:
- Seem to be a single man operation
- Kind of dry support (not super nice) with a small contact form and a Joomla org discussion board
- No forum
- Not really ready for a pro site (bugs and all)
- No real components/module support yet



Now, You Masters of Joomla what will be your suggestions, at this point I’m so tired to try to find to put together a multilingual professional 2.5 solution and unsure of what 3.0 will bring

Question 2: What will be the direction to Go, bypass the onboard useless system or go with it....

I don’t need a clear answer but some direction will be helpful....


Just ranting!
After many years doing Joomla sites this is the firs time I really doubt in a bright future for the platform, mostly because the developers seem completely unaware of what Joomla is and what it’s use for. Everything is business and if Joomla loose interest as a business platform for web developer and user alike it will disappear.

So far what I can see, is a recipe for disasters:
• Lost of support for the entire bulk of joomla 1.5 sites around the world...
• Rapid succession of difficult to upgrade versions with very short life-span making building Joomla site today not appealing to business and web builders.
• Disregard of lost of main capabilities to propels serious professional solutions without keeping support for the solid base 1.5.

Please Give me Hope...

_________________
God help us!

Thanks you for your comments.
Joomla is made by volunteers.
You are welcome to propose a working solution for that issue.

_________________
Jean-Marie Simonet / infograf · http://www.info-graf.fr
Multilanguage in 2.5: http://help.joomla.org/files/EN-GB_multilang_tutorial.pdf
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Joomla Translation Coordination Team • Joomla! Production Working Group

I’m more than confuse.

I remember yesterday that my association was off on my menus in my 2.5 testing site (yes still in testing) because I was testing Josetta.

I put my menu association On and bingo, it work perfect....

If you look at this page —>
http://multilingual-joomla-demo.cloudaccess.net/multi-lingual-steps-by-steps/39-new-in-1-7-associated-menu-items.html

you get this


It state clearly here that menu association fix the (Back to Home) Syndrome and it work on my test site — I don’t know what to say.


I’m sorry for my comments infograf, that was exhaustion to be able to continue feeding my family everyday and trying to present Joomla as a viable CMS to my clients.

I understand the “Volunteers” part of it but, this is where we see Joomla differently. Joomla became one of the most use CMS in the world. More than 50 millions of Companies and organization build there sites with it and trust their own image to this system. A multitude of Developers and Web builders present that system to their clients everyday or build commercial add-ons and components feeding their own family doing so. Joomla become a huge community build on that simple CMS.
Those “Volunteers” each decisions have a direct impact on that community. They should have in mind that influence before taking any decision and be in touch with the same community to help tracing a clear safe path for Joomla.
If the same Volunteers are not willing to do so and just act on their own, they should say so.

I will take one example that I have in mind to illustrate.

The decision to abandon the only solid stable version of Joomla (1.5) upgrade and security to leave that same community in the void of 2.5, 3.0 is an absolute mistake. I will take the analogy of a company that build a perfect car adopted by more than 50 millions of customers and decide that they will not build anymore spare parts or even service them to go back to prototyping and expect that when that prototype will be ready, everybody and even the 50 millions people left out come back and get their new car. I don’t think so....

_________________
God help us!

People are trying to solve the Items Associations.
See http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/joomla ... m_id=27373

_________________
Jean-Marie Simonet / infograf · http://www.info-graf.fr
Multilanguage in 2.5: http://help.joomla.org/files/EN-GB_multilang_tutorial.pdf
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Joomla Translation Coordination Team • Joomla! Production Working Group

It work perfectly on my test site, do you think it’s because Josetta is install?

After associating the menus, if yo are in an article, switching language work as it should bringing you in the same article with the new language.
It is working or not???
I just try again and look at the URL if I see something strange

Default submenu URL (english)
http://localhost:8888/xxxxxxxxxxx/index ... bmenu-2-en

After switch

http://localhost:8888/xxxxxxxxxxx/index ... bmenu-2-fr

For the french menu an additional —> /index.php/fr/ — The fr is added because I tell in the language plugins to left out the default language code (en) if I remember well...

What’s to solve....

_________________
God help us!

This is a MENU item association, not ANY item association.

Example of menu item association:
http://multilingual-joomla-demo.cloudac ... steps.html
Then click on French in switcher
You will get
http://multilingual-joomla-demo.cloudac ... angue.html
and reciprocally

But if you click on an article in that category list, changing language will redirect to the original associated menu item (links above)

For the association to work for these articles, one would need hidden menus with one menu item per article, associated to menu items loading similar articles in each language.

_________________
Jean-Marie Simonet / infograf · http://www.info-graf.fr
Multilanguage in 2.5: http://help.joomla.org/files/EN-GB_multilang_tutorial.pdf
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Joomla Translation Coordination Team • Joomla! Production Working Group

Ok I see

http:// multilingual-joomla-demo.cloudaccess.net/fr/instructions-multilangue.html

http:// multilingual-joomla-demo.cloudaccess.net/multi-lingual-steps-by-steps.html

Those function correctly (they make sure that the template change to make thing more confusing)

I click on the Article list —> Create menu module
and go to

http:// multilingual-joomla-demo.cloudaccess.net/multi-lingual-steps-by-steps/21-create-menu-modules.html

Switch to French
and go to
http:// multilingual-joomla-demo.cloudaccess.net/fr/instructions-multilangue.html

What the heck is that?

I guess this isTHE ITEM ASSOCIATION BUG

Is that mean that each time an article is not call by a menu you will have that problem (if you switch language)?

What do you think?
Yes this is bug or more a hole in the code, but I wonder in what circumstances it will be really problematic???
• For the front end edition — Yes, this is bad
Otherwise I don’t see somebody having fun switching language constantly... ?

Do you see other serious problem, I mean on a production site that can arise from that?



I look carefully at the processes on Joomla Code to tackle this http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/joomla/tracker/?action=TrackerItemEdit&tracker_item_id=27373

I like one of the Dev saying: - at least somebody is aware that it’s serious business... Maybe a litle bit more cautious than me for the formulation...



I don’t think I see any resolution of this problem (s) in that discussion — The last post was last month —

do you have any new information about it?

My gloom is back... Great... Up and Down.....

_________________
God help us!

Once again, it is NOT a bug, it is a limited functionality as was described from 1.6 release on.
Ranting will not bring anything new. We need people to propose code to extend the functionality.

_________________
Jean-Marie Simonet / infograf · http://www.info-graf.fr
Multilanguage in 2.5: http://help.joomla.org/files/EN-GB_multilang_tutorial.pdf
---------------------------------
Joomla Translation Coordination Team • Joomla! Production Working Group

You Right, do you think that Items Association will be implanted soon... I didn’t find the Dev’s really clear on the subject?

Maybe you have some inside!

My big dilemma here is to choose a 3rd party translation helper.

I personally prefer a component that work in tandem with Joomla internal architecture — But any flaws or shortcoming from the native motor is carry in.

Or I go with a complete bypass of the system?

Can you advise? What you really think about it?

Thanks

_________________
God help us!

NEWS NEWS NEWS — Seem to be fix
Great work, it was so important for me...

http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/joomla ... m_id=27373



What do you mean by - How do I implement the patch for 2.5 up ?

_________________
God help us!

This feature is not implemented in 2.5 and will not be as 2.5.x is feature-frozen.
It was committed in master and will be available in next 3.x.x release

_________________
Jean-Marie Simonet / infograf · http://www.info-graf.fr
Multilanguage in 2.5: http://help.joomla.org/files/EN-GB_multilang_tutorial.pdf
---------------------------------
Joomla Translation Coordination Team • Joomla! Production Working Group

I need to produce 2.5 sites and implement this.
Many of my main extensions are not 3 ready...

I download the patch —> multi-assoc-jm.sql.gz —> item_association7.patch

Do you have any hint how to implement on 2.5?

_________________
God help us!

Ok, I look at the patch and it should be relatively easy to implement manually... Now my question is if it will work with a 2.5 site?

_________________
God help us!

Chacapamac, did you get this to work in 2.5? I am in a similar situation.

And does anyone know if the current 3.0.2 has this feature? Very excited to start using it.

Just to be clear - this allows for item associations (like articles) rather than just menu associations, is that right?

I’m not sure, I didn’t try and I HOPE it’s implemented in the current — We didn’t have any answer here - That leave me in the doubt....One thing you can do it’s to look if the patch code is present...

infograf said not 2.5 but 3 and up....

Sadly we don’t know, even if we implement manually, if it will work in 2.5?????

The question remain

_________________
God help us!