The Joomla! Forum ™

How is Bangla spoken/written in Bangladesh is different from Bangls spoken/written in India?

EDIT: In relation to Joomla Language Files.

I am asking because if it is not different, I want to host the demo on IndicJoomla as well, ofcourse with your permission....

_________________
--Vish "Still Learning"

Hi Vish
There are differeneces in many ways, let me tell a few

1. In spellings. Most newspaper, government publications, textbooks have adopted a standard for spellings. The standard includes foreign words, words with different spellings etc. As most of the Bangaldeshis are Muslim, there is a huge number of Arabic/Fersi words used in Bangla, not to mention ubiqutios English. Conterparts in Kolkata use different things. Anandabazar group has it's own set of standards!

2. The way of expressing something in many ways is different. Let me give an example: Apni ke? (Who are you?) will be spoken as "Apni ke hon?" in Kolkata and that is very hilarious in Bangladesh.

3. Cultural or clloqual difference:
We use Taka, instead of Rupee, vai instead of dada, apa instead of didi, fupa instead of meso and lot others. The best would be to look at a novel by Humayun Ahmed (famous in BD) released in Bangladesh and in Kolkata as a different version. Unless you know either one of them well, it is hard for you to comprehend.

4. About including Bangla under the Indic umbrella:
I have said enough about this in the past. The Bangla I speak and have translated the Joomla in, is Bangladeshi Bangla. If you wish to use it or host it for download I should not have any problem. Make sure you point to the latest version. On the other side as per the Translation Charter, Joomla wont ratify any translation as Official and it is more than possible to have multiple translations in a given language. And lastly, let me remind you that, translating just doesnt mean translation of the user view; about 20,000 lines of help document is also included in there.

regards

alamgir

_________________
www.apona-bd.com Bangla OCR and other software.
www.joomla.org.bd Bangla Joomla Site

Alamgir

Well, I wasn't expecting that verbose reply but I think I get your point. Thanks for taking time to write back.

I did not actually mean to start a dialogue on differences between the actual language and stuff, but I was meaning to learn how that difference related to "Joomla Language File" . I think we would be digressing if we start a conversation on what might be hillarious in Bangladesh v/s in Kolkata and thier respective religious inclinations, with due respect. Instead I would like to know how ~500 lines of strings in Bangladeshi Bangla relates to Indic Bangla in your opinion?

Again, I would like to clarify I do not intend/wish/hope/dream to bring Banladeshi Bangla under Indic umbrella or anything of that sort. But It cannot be denied that there is a language called Bangla(Bengali)  in India. For this translation, I want to start with Bangladeshi Bangla language file; Similar to as you and I started with English language file. I hope I made myself clear.


By the way when can I see/downlaod Bangla Documentation?

Thanks
--Vish

_________________
--Vish "Still Learning"

Hi Vish
1. My reply wa based on your posting before the editing! As your posting has changed, the reply should also:)

2. From joomla point of view:
There is no difference in characters or any other techincal things. In the mere 500 lines I did find the theme that may differ in Bangladesh and in Kolkata. I gave you an example. Most joomla prompt and expressions are wrtten on cultural perspective. One more concrete example is: We in bangladesh use 'apni' (ap in hindi) to address someone unkown, whereas in Kolkata it is mostly 'tumi' (tum in Hindi) unless in very rare case. In joomla texts you would find many of them.

3. As Joomla and its all translations are OpenSource and released under GNU/GPL, you always can modify and release it.

4. As UNICODE is mainly a Microsoft thing now, and Microsoft now recognizes the difference between Bangladeshi bangla and Indian Bangla, there is indeed a "Bengali(Bangladesh)" language or whatever you call. We exprect that to be clear in future.

5. As I said, there is about 20k lines of document, I am working on it. You may expect in them in 2/3 months unless joomla keeps changing.

regards

alamgir

_________________
www.apona-bd.com Bangla OCR and other software.
www.joomla.org.bd Bangla Joomla Site

Alamgir

The statement that we in kolkata mostly use "tumi" (tum) instead of "aapni" (aap) is totally untrue,
I think you have got no idea of how Bengali is used in Kolkata,

Sorry for being a little rude but I can't help it seeing your post,

"Are Baba" Why the hell would we use tumi to address someone whom we do not know at all????
In kolkata if we would try to address someone as tumi in the middle of the road they would give a rude glance and think that I have some other fishy business and walk away,

It's Ok to use use "tumi" if the person is a lot younger than you or you simply might know a little bit about him/her,
"tui"(tu) can be used to address some one much, I mean much younger that you or to whom you are very close to.

Very much similar to how colloquial Hindi is used,

On a personal note I have been to Dhaka two times as my father is the GM of an Australian Airlines for eastern India and Bangladesh and both my parents families are immigrants to Kolkata from Bangladesh (noakhali & dhaka, bikrampur) after the partion, and these factors have certainly contributed to my understanding of Bangladeshi Bangla, 

In my opinion there are a very few differences in the actual language but how the language is spoken, Giving some examples we use "korchhe" while in bangladesh they use "korse" for explaining (hindi:-"kar rahe hain" english:-"doing"), i.e. bangladeshi's are leaving out the pressure points in the word and making the pronounciation easier. I take note upon the various farsi influences in Bangladeshi bangla, and many differences in the name of relations like apa,vai & fupa, but the name of relations have no importance in the translation of Joomla,
About the "apni ke hon" It is also untrue as we use "apni ke" or "dada, apni ke hon"

On that note I would like to tell you that I have made a Indian Bangla translation in collaboration with Vish and It should be released very soon, currently we are working on the demo site, will give you a notice as soon as it is out, you will notice that a lot of the messages are completely new or rigourously edited,
I must thank you for releasing the Bangladeshi Bangla translation, as it was the base upon which I started my work.

Please feel free to correct me if you find errors in my explanation of the Bangladeshi Bangla or about any other issue.

Romit

_________________
Romit Chatterjee
× Joomla! Web Developer - http://www.RomitChat.com
× IndicJoomla! Translation Coordinator - http://www.JoomlaIndia.org/bengali/

রমিত
আপনার পোস্টের জন্য ধন্যবাদ। কোলকাতার বাংলা সম্পর্কে আমার ১০০ ভাগ ধারণা থাকার কথা না, এমন দাবী আমি করেছি বলে মনেও পড়ে না। ভিশ বাংলা জানেনা কিন্তু বারবার বাংলাদেশী বাংলা ও কোলকাতার বাংলার পার্থক্য জানতে চাচ্ছিল। যে উদাহরণটি আমি দিয়েছি এবং যেটিকে আপনার সঠিক মনে হয়নি তার সাথে আমি পুরোপুরি একমত নই। আমি আজ অবধি ডজন খানেক সমবয়সী কোলকাতার লোকের সাথে মিশেছি যারা সবাই প্রথম পরিচয় শুরু করেছে তুমি দিয়ে। আর উচ্চারণের পার্থক্যের কথা টানছি না। কোলকাতার লিখিত বাংলার অভিজ্ঞতা আমার ওখানকার পত্রিকা পড়ে। তবে আপনারা যে মেনে নিয়েছেন পার্থক্য আছি সেটা আপনাদের বোঝানোর কৃতিত্বটুকু আমি দাবী করতে পারি।
আরও দুটি উদাহরণ দিই:
১. আপনি কথন আসলেন?  আপনি কথন এলেন?
২. ফাইলটা মুছে দাও।  ফাইলটা উড়িয়ে দাও!


রমিল, এবার আপনার প্রশংসা করতেই হয় যে আমাকে একটু কৃতিত্ব দিয়েছেন আমার অনুবাদের জন্য। আপনি মাস কয়েক আগে আমাকে প্রাইভেট মেসেজ দিয়ে ট্রান্সলেশন সংশ্লিণ্ট বিভিন্ন জিনিশ জানতে চেয়েছিলেন। আমি একাধিক মেসেজে বিস্তারিত বলেছি। একটা ধন্যবাদ দিয়েছেন বলে মনে পড়ে না। সে যা হোক, অনুবাদ ভাল হোক, শুভেচ্ছা রইল।

আলমগীর

_________________
www.apona-bd.com Bangla OCR and other software.
www.joomla.org.bd Bangla Joomla Site

Can some one please translate this for me please !!!

_________________
--Vish "Still Learning"

Translation:
Romit
Thanks for your post. I should not have 100% idea about the Bangla in Kolkata, and I cant remember I have made such claim. Vish was insisting on the difference between the Kolkatan and Bangladeshi version of Bangla, though he does not know bangla. That's why I have picked the simple 'tumi' and 'apni' example that you did not agree with. Yet I do not assent with you. I have met a dozen of persons from Kolkata of my age and all them started the conversation addressing me 'tumi'. I am not discussing about the accent. What I know about the Kolkatan written Bangla is from reading the magazines from there. But at the end, thanks that you have agreed that there is some difference, and I can claim that credit.
Two more examples now in mind:
1. apni kokhon ashlen? (BD)  apni kokhon elen? (KOL)
2. file ta muse dao. (BD) file ta uria dao. (KOL)

Romil, I must praise you on this occasion that you gave me some credit. Few months bank, you sent me few private messages asking to know about the technical details of translation. I have replied those with a lot of information, yet never been thanked  for them. Anyway, good luck in translation.

alamgir

_________________
www.apona-bd.com Bangla OCR and other software.
www.joomla.org.bd Bangla Joomla Site

Dear Romit
I do not have the tendency to be rude for something that I just dont agree. About 'tumi' and 'apni' I am quoting the FIRST message that you have sent me once:

Hello Alamgir bhai, kemon acho?

Well, my name is Romil Javed, I'm from New Delhi, India, and it's been 2 years with Mambo....................

Please note the word in red. That is the verb in 'tumi' form not in 'apni' and by the way, we didnt know each other before the message.

Thanks.

alamgir

_________________
www.apona-bd.com Bangla OCR and other software.
www.joomla.org.bd Bangla Joomla Site

Alamgir,

Please take note that I am romi"T" Profile:- http://forum.joomla.org/index.php?action=profile;u=12838 

and not Romi"L", Profile:- http://forum.joomla.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2503

I am Romit Chatterjee from Kolkata and that guy is Romil Javed

Alamgir could you please properly read who has made the post before quoting, lamenting etc
that Romil has not thanked you about your repond to his PM's


Anyway
See Alamgir, I think you are missing out the point here,

As I have already said in my last post,



Even though I did'nt PM you or anything like that
Romil said kemon achho  because he knows that you were in Mambo and he was in Mambo too for 2 years,
i.e. he knows something about you and he is also telling something about himself i.e. He was with mambo for 2 years,

Then the situation tells that He calls you as "Tumi" and not "apni" (Because he knows a little bit about You)
and also your avatar tells about your age a bit,
I figure that he may be the same age so he may call you Tumi,
Anyway it is he who used it, why should I give কৈফিয়ত for it.

About the
১. আপনি কথন আসলেন?   আপনি কথন এলেন?
We in Kolkata use both,

About
২. ফাইলটা মুছে দাও।   ফাইলটা উড়িয়ে দাও!

File ta muchhe dao is used in majority of the time, while the other is used, but not very frequently

Lastly,
Alamgir let me remind you that we are here to Translate Joomla! and not fight over petty things such as the
difference in language in two countries,
and think of the future of the Joomla community.

Vish
had thought the IndicJoomla joomla project include all the indian languages that included Bengali
so he had asked for the differences between the two,
Since you had an objection about that
and I openly acknoledge that there is difference between Bangladeshi Bengali and Indian Bengali

The Bengali IndicJoomla project was formed and an IndianBengali translation made,

I think you will understand it in the right way and not take it otherwise

The Indian bengali translation release is just round the corner, a lot of work has gone into it
just as the Bangladeshi Bengali release must have taken.
If you see the release you will understand more about the difference between the languages,

So in my opinion there is no point Ranting, about an issue that has already been solved,

Let me also remind you that this topic was posted before the translation to Indian Bengali

RomiT

_________________
Romit Chatterjee
× Joomla! Web Developer - http://www.RomitChat.com
× IndicJoomla! Translation Coordinator - http://www.JoomlaIndia.org/bengali/

Alamgir,

Thanks for translatiing it for me (and others...)


Well, I do not see it that way, I think I was "curious" to know and learn about the differences as it relates to Joomla. I can now see that it was misinterpretted. I can see the differences at the level that has been described....same as punjabi would be different in Pakistan Panjab v/s India Punjab...!! I guess...and that is well understood.

Well, rest of all is addressed by RomiT...

_________________
--Vish "Still Learning"

There are no problems providing Core translations INI files for language variants in Joomal! 1.1.
I remind you that borders do not exist for Joomla! Just languages.

In the case of Bangla, the prefix would be:

ben_BD for Bangla as used in Bangladesh

ben_IN for Bangla as used in India

The locale tab is another matter altogether as it deals with the kind of OS/server on which the install is done.

@Alamgir: I suggest to close this thread to keep our serenity.
Please open another thread for technical matters if necessary.

--------------------------------
References:
This is where you will find the correct ISO settings for your languages:
Language codes (3 letters)
http://www.id3.org/iso639-2.html

Country codes (2 letters)
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-service ... t-en1.html

_________________
Jean-Marie Simonet / infograf · http://www.info-graf.fr
Multilanguage in 2.5: http://help.joomla.org/files/EN-GB_multilang_tutorial.pdf
---------------------------------
Joomla Translation Coordination Team • Joomla! Production Working Group

Thanks every one.
We had enough.

So, the thread is closed.

alamgir

_________________
www.apona-bd.com Bangla OCR and other software.
www.joomla.org.bd Bangla Joomla Site