JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby mattbaylor » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:41 am

A bit of an update...

We won't be providing access to an archive as originally planned. Peter took some time today and sorted a quick solution.

http://archive.extensions.joomla.org

Most of everything has been disabled and the intent is only to provide an archive, nothing more.
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby vdrover » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:45 am

That's a good alternative, thanks guys.

Maybe you can comment as to why a separate site is required? I mean I certainly don't mind an extra linkback from J.org, seems like overkill though.
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby mattbaylor » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:23 am

The archive is temporary and will eventually go away. It will have very limited support. What we will support will be posted on the front page once I get some time to sort it out.

One of the bigger benefits is cleaning up the directory and easily getting rid of a lot of broken extensions and listings with broken links and all that fun stuff. Clearing out all that stuff will help when it comes time to export/import everything into the 3.0 system.

It also will free up a lot of our time so we can focus on rolling out bigger and better things.
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby vdrover » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:16 am

Well, thanks for all your work. Seems like it would be easier to simply purge anything with a broken link or no updated in a certain amount of time, but since its your time, who am i to complain :)
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby gsmeanspro » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:03 am

http://archive.extensions.joomla.org/ is a great idea. I wonder if we can set it to read-only mode (no review, comment, new posting, etc.) So the maintenance is minimum and it will last for as long as community needs.

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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby mattbaylor » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:54 am

gsmeanspro wrote:http://archive.extensions.joomla.org/ is a great idea. I wonder if we can set it to read-only mode (no review, comment, new posting, etc.) So the maintenance is minimum and it will last for as long as community needs.


If you look it already has been stripped of those things. :-)
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby gsmeanspro » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:07 am

natselection wrote:
gsmeanspro wrote:http://archive.extensions.joomla.org/ is a great idea. I wonder if we can set it to read-only mode (no review, comment, new posting, etc.) So the maintenance is minimum and it will last for as long as community needs.


If you look it already has been stripped of those things. :-)


Oops, should have made a better look :). So being in this "read-only" mode, I think it can live for pretty long time.

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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby Webdongle » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:18 pm

gsmeanspro wrote:
natselection wrote:... So being in this "read-only" mode, I think it can live for pretty long time.

Does that mean that if a vulnerability is found in a 1.5 extension that it will be removed without the author being able to fix it ? Or will it be left on for people to download the vulnerable extension ?
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby gsmeanspro » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:28 pm

Webdongle wrote:
gsmeanspro wrote:
natselection wrote:... So being in this "read-only" mode, I think it can live for pretty long time.

Or will it be left on for people to download the vulnerable extension ?


I think yes, it's the archive after all. If people want the latest update, they will have to migrate to 2.5 or 3.0. The Joomla 1.5 itself is not updated as well.

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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby Webdongle » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:43 pm

@gsmeanspro
I was asking for an official response, also it was an either or question not a one that required a yes/no answer. Because your answer confuses two issues
gsmeanspro wrote: If people want the latest update, they will have to migrate to 2.5 or 3.0. The Joomla 1.5 itself is not updated as well
We are not speaking of Joomla 1.5 which is not being supported. But 3rd party extensions for 1.5, many developers of 3rd party extensions may wish to produce updates for their 1.5 extensions.

They may want to support and update their 1.5 for one of numerous reasons. And as the JED 1.5 extensions archive is 'read only' then the question still stands.

Does that mean that if a vulnerability is found in a 1.5 extension that it will be removed without the author being able to fix it ? Or will it be left on for people to download the vulnerable extension ?
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby masterchief » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:30 pm

natselection wrote:The archive is temporary and will eventually go away.
So, I think the archive is a reasonable compromise - thanks to those who worked on it. Since it is an archive, I don't really see the need for it to go away (if it's low maintenance, who cares), but if it does, please consult with your stakeholders first if you start making changes again. You have our (listers) email addresses - please use them to communicate with us.
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby Webdongle » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:37 pm

masterchief wrote:... I don't really see the need for it to go away (if it's low maintenance, who cares), but if it does, please consult with your stakeholders first if you start making changes again. You have our (listers) email addresses - please use them to communicate with us.
'stakeholders ' is a general rather than specific business term ?
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby nonumber » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:03 am

The archive will be there for listings that only have a Joomla 1.5 version.
If the dev of such a listing makes it compatible with Joomla 2.5+ (after March 1st), the dev will need to submit the listing for the normal JED. The listing in the archive will then be removed.

If a listing gets removed from the archive for some reason (broken links, vulnerability issues, etc), then it is gone for good.
If people still want to find the listing, they can use Google search and go directly to the website of the developer.

If developers want to keep their listings in the spotlight the JED attracts, then they'll have to keep it up-to-date and make it Joomla 2.5 compatible. Then it can appear on the normal JED site.

As for the archive, it will be on there for reference. Once it causes headaches for anyone (visitors of the archive and/or JED members), then it is off.
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby jkwebdesign » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:16 am

First i didn´t like the idea of having any kind of archive but now i think it is a good idea.

First i didn´t think every use cases for those.. Now i need Joomla 1.5 extension:) I´m migrating my client site from 1.0 to 2.5 and i need few extensions for 1.5 that i can go to 2.5. So i think it is good to have those 1.5 extensions somewhere.. Ofcourse Google helps but still it is easier to find from Joomla site.
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby sourcecoast » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:13 am

I hate to chime in with negativity here, but I think the archive as it stands is a really bad idea. To summarize, the only extensions shown there are:
* Ones that *only* had the Joomla 1.5 tag
* No reviews/ratings are shown
Those two things combine to basically have:
* Some of the worst, most unsupported extensions being the only ones listed
* Anyone viewing the archive won't realize how bad some of those extensions are

Simply because an extension supports Joomla 2.5+, doesn't mean it shouldn't be listed in the 1.5 archive. Generally speaking (masterchief's specific example of his backported 1.6 redirect extension and Flexicontent possibly being *the* exceptions that proves the rule), the 1.5-only extensions are likely un/under-supported and likely fully abandoned. The extensions that still support J1.5: K2, Community Builder, our stuff, and many more are specifically excluded.. which means, if you want, for example, a social community, the options are pretty paltry or in some cases (if you're familiar with them), comical:
http://archive.extensions.joomla.org/ex ... ommunities

Now, I know that people shouldn't really be looking for 1.5 Community extensions, but if for some reason they are, and that's what they're presented with, it's going to be bad. I'm not the biggest fan of Community Builder, but it is still fully supported on J1.5 and would be a good recommendation for someone needing a community extension, especially over some of the ones now 'promoted' on the archive.

In the scheme of things though, this will be the best method to get people to want to upgrade to J2.5+

To avoid being only negative, my suggestion would probably be to show all extensions that support 1.5, regardless of whether they have 2.5+ support. That way, users can at least see everything that is 'likely' still available for J1.5, not just the stuff that never made it off the 1.5-train.

Just my opinion. For disclosure, we do still support our users on Joomla 1.5 with the last version we released for J1.5 (at the end of 2012), but our newest releases are 2.5+. So, we're in a limbo-y territory of supporting/bug-fixing as necessary, but not developing. Our extensions would be included if my suggestion above was taken, but my reasoning above is still sound (imo at least).

Definitely appreciate all the hard work and thought that has gone into this, and thanks for listening to all the feedback,
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby masterchief » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:17 am

nonumber wrote:If developers want to keep their listings in the spotlight the JED attracts, then they'll have to keep it up-to-date and make it Joomla 2.5 compatible. Then it can appear on the normal JED site.
I have no issue with that. I just don't see why the 1.5's can't just be browsable and searchable in the current directory.
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby uglykidjoe » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:55 pm

The main thing that springs to mind now is do I have to go cap in hand to to all my customers I have built 1.5.X sites for and ask them to pay for the time to upgrade?

Also there are loads of components out there that are only 1.5.X

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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby Webdongle » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:34 pm

uglykidjoe wrote:The main thing that springs to mind now is do I have to go cap in hand to to all my customers I have built 1.5.X sites for and ask them to pay for the time to upgrade?...
That would depend on your contract with them and if you charged for maintaining the site as well as building it would it not ? Also although 1.5 is not supported any longer all that means is that there will be no updates for it. There is no reason why they should need to migrate to 2.5 or 3.0. They can choose to revamp their site if they choose but that is just a matter of choice. In any case most website developers would have used 2.5 to create a site rather than use 1.5 when it was near the end of support yes ?


uglykidjoe wrote:...
Also there are loads of components out there that are only 1.5.X
And one of the reasons for that is because 2.5 and 3.0 have more functions built in and therefore don't need 3rd party extensions to perform specific tasks.
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby masterchief » Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:33 pm

None of that matters now. The change has been made. There are still a few crucial things missing:

1. An announcement on www.joomla.org of the change and that "archive" exists.
2. extensions.joomla.org needs a link to "Archive" in the top menu bar (after "Advanced Search").
3. A dedicated article in JCM (too late now for this month)
4. Promotion external to the Joomla web site (tech sites, JUG's, events).

If you need help with that, please ask your listers. We are reasonable people but we need to know how and when we can help. On that note, I don't know what the definitive communication channel is supposed to be for the JED so it would be helpful to know where I need to subscribe to be able to pay attention to future JED developments. To be honest, you guys have my email - I'm happy for you to use it to contact me in a mail blast. In my view, this should be done at least each time you amend the TOS, but also for any other subtle change that is made to the site that affects our listings.

Thanks in advance for your understanding.
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby KrystalTech » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:39 pm

None of that matters now? How Arrogant?!!?

All I wanted to do today was add a facebook slider to a site. A five minute job... Instead I now worry that each of my 100+ J1.5 sites will now be totally impossible for me to support in the future! I don't care that Joomla 1.5 is unsupported. What right do you have to remove the support of other companies/individuals though? I will always still want to have the latest extensions for my sites, even if I can't upgrade the site itself!

You've given me the choice, either spend thousands of hours upgrading all my sites (for free!) or tell my customers they can't have what they want anymore.

There was zero harm in leaving the 1.0/1.5 extensions in place, even if you didn't allow new ones. And what about your commitment to security!? As new vulnerabilities are found in older extensions, you've made it impossible for developers to get the fix to us. You are effectively introducing issues where there were none before.

I have to question now whether I can ever build another site in Joomla again. How do I know that in a few years I will have another hundred sites that are unsupportable? Joomla is now unreliable. Not in technical terms, but in terms of future supportability.

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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby uglykidjoe » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:44 pm

This might help, KrystalTech

http://archive.extensions.joomla.org/

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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby eyemot » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:29 pm

Okay, thank goodness. it looks like there is a link to the repository. Below was a note about our feelings about this issue.

Thank you Joomla Community!!!!
***** Manual signatures are NOT allowed *****

Our company has ~150 1.5 sites installed and we don't have the manpower to convert all of those to 2.5. And our clients aren't willing to pay for a new site just yet.

Think of it like this, according to the quote below, you guys say you don't have the manpower to create a repository, well, consider us!

There have been some requests of creating a repository for 1.5 listings. With our current workload and projects on the horizon we do not have the manpower to create a repository at this time.


I was just looking today for a contact us form that needs to be switched out for a 1.5 site, and then realized there were no 1.5 extensions anymore.

Please be realistic about this, RATHER THAN IDEALISTIC.

EyeMotion

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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby alikon » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:04 pm

eyemot you just forget a little detail
the jed team is made by people that give an hand on their free time and for free
despite we are not a company the jed for joomla 1.5 is available at http://archive.extensions.joomla.org

http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=262&t=793026

p.s
the progress can be stopped cause lack of paid manpower ?
in the free and open source world no in my opinion
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Re: JED 1.5 Version Support Ends

Postby masterchief » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:26 pm

KrystalTech wrote:None of that matters now? How Arrogant?!!?
I think my comment was "lost in translation" for you. I'm speaking as a lister and the tone was "defeatist" and "arrogance".

I received an email yesterday, directly to me, from the Events team (because they have my email in their system). It said it was that time again (you all get the ICAN mails don't you?) to check your JUG details. If you don't log in by a certain date, you risked having your listing considered to be stale and unpublished. I thought that was an excellent way to handle it because I have complete control over what happens next.

@eyemot, where's the link to the archive?
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