Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

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Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby ChiefGoFor » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:13 pm

For discussion of Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby Beat » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:31 pm

Wohohoo... That's very good news... ACL happening for real, and looks nice :)

What's the svn url for the 1.6 trunk ?

We can start looking into the implications for the extensions and start helping stabilizing. :)
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby LDA » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:44 pm

Yeah cool, we will began to make our update from 1.0 to 1.6 and we will definitly have to make a lot of new extensions for it :D

*Happy*

BTW will you give out a API page like for 1.5 for the Alpha?

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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby 2ninerniner2 » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:58 pm

Bonjour,

Looking good! :) However, as someone with a US Patent on a software process, I have a couple of "items" that totally confound me, and those are:

1) Global Configuration > Permissions: ??? huh? oh boy, that grid confuses ME :)
2) Extension Manager > Options: same thing :)

Yes, this is still "Alpha" and I am certain a lot will happen before a stable release, but I cannot imagine sending this out to a client as it is. If I can (or could) come up with something "better" I will most definitely send it along for perusal :) Great work and I can't wait for "the real McCoy" :)

Cheers!
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby ianmac » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:16 pm

Beat wrote:Wohohoo... That's very good news... ACL happening for real, and looks nice :)

What's the svn url for the 1.6 trunk ?

We can start looking into the implications for the extensions and start helping stabilizing. :)

http://joomlacode.org/svn/joomla/development/trunk

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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby Beat » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:39 pm

Thanks Ian 8)

I guess alpha means "call for feedbacks and bug reports" ;)

So here my first one:

First of all, ACL is definitely on a very nice track overall, congrats :)

Here a hands-on-no-manuals-around "novice" view on ACL backend ui:

When editing an article, in "Access Rules" accordion there is no "View" access rule, but very fine grained "edit", "edit state" and "Delete" which comes first... "Delete" isn't very positive as first item btw, and imho should come last logically.

Imho those 3 existing rules could be one by default, someone who can edit an article can zero it down to empty or change its content, which has same consequences as delete imho. Specially if there is only review by publisher at first article publishing, and not for revised versions. But "View" rights should be there

Ok, now i saw the "Access level" which is on the left side, which is I guess for the read/"View"-access. (I'm on purpose NOT editing my feedback above, as it shows where i was looking for that and not finding it).

That confused me for a while, and still seems confusing to me. Why is that intermediate "abstraction" level there only for "View" and not for all other rights ("Edit", "Edit state" and "Delete") ? or maybe why is it there at all ? Maybe "View" could follow same principles than "Edit" ? or maybe "Edit", "Edit stat" and "Delete" could also just use an "Access level" drop-down setting too each instead of those grids, avoiding the nice but complex (and thus hard to review/audit) grids at all ?

I guess you're looking for such testing feedbacks: Not sure if you want each of those on a tracker: if yes, which tracker (url) ? ;)

Editing article:

Code: Select all

Notice: Undefined index: articletext in /Sites/1.6/libraries/joomla/database/table/content.php on line 286 Notice: Undefined index: articletext in /Sites/1.6/libraries/joomla/database/table/content.php on line 290

Creating user with existing email address of another user:

Code: Select all

Fatal error: Call to undefined method JTableUser::getErrorMsg() in /Sites/1.6/administrator/components/com_users/models/user.php on line 287


If this thread is not the right place for feedbacks, just tell me where the place is, and i will move them and post others there, as time permits ;)

Again overall, very nice job 8)
Last edited by Beat on Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Yes - Great!!

Postby oldbrit » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:12 pm

I'm interested in a couple of items that have likely been asked elsewhere, but it seems appropriate to ask them again at this time and in this place - to get the latest thoughts on these items and to have them in this location.

The thrust of these questions is so that I can put together a road-map for moving our existing 1.5 websites to 1.6.

1. What's the general time frame for release of 1.6? I'm guessing 2 to 4 months??

2. What's the extent of compatibility for existing 1.5 components, plugins, and modules?

3. Is there a location where the status of component, plugin, and module updates for 1.6 will be posted? (If not, that would be handy!)

4. What about theme compatibility? Are there any changes to the templating system between 1.5 and 1.6?

5. Anyone want to contribute further questions in aid of understanding what will be involved in upgrading sites from 1.5 to 1.6?

Liz

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Re: Yes - Great!!

Postby Hackwar » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:24 pm

to 1.: We are going to release when its done. Not a day before that, not a day after.

to 2.: We will tell you, when we know.

to 3.: no

to 4.: Joomla 1.6 will be "table free" (e.g. tables will only be used where semantically correct) Otherwise there are not template changes.
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby Hackwar » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:27 pm

To Beat: The view access level is seperate, because everybody will be able to edit view access rights, but very few will be able to edit the general access settings. The view access level are also set up in a different location compared to the normale access settings and they are something completely different if you look under the hood.
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby Beat » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:39 pm

Hackwar wrote:To Beat: The view access level is seperate, because everybody will be able to edit view access rights, but very few will be able to edit the general access settings. The view access level are also set up in a different location compared to the normale access settings and they are something completely different if you look under the hood.


Hi Hannes, :)
Hm...if "everyone" can change the access-level of articles/categories, then you probably need an admin rule on who has rights to to change that "access level" setting...and which access levels/rights he has right to give... LOL :D

Yes, I can easily see in user-interface too that they are very different paradigms.
That was exactly my question: do they need to be different ?
Edit-rules could use access-levels in same way. That would simplify the learning-curve, the code, and the settings too.
Just a thought/feedback, constructively.

Discovering further...Very nice work!
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby Hackwar » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:48 pm

Yes, they need to be different. And the rules that you are talking about are already in there.
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Re: Yes - Great!!

Postby oldbrit » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:50 pm

Hackwar wrote:to 1.: We are going to release when its done. Not a day before that, not a day after.

to 2.: We will tell you, when we know.

to 3.: no

to 4.: Joomla 1.6 will be "table free" (e.g. tables will only be used where semantically correct) Otherwise there are not template changes.
Hackwar, your nasty attitude is not appropriate. We peons who merely implement Joomla websites made Joomla a popular
CMS. Without us, Joomla development would be a total waste of time.

1. Snotty response which contains no information at all.

2. If Joomla 1.6 is in Alpha 2 testing, then the developers already know whether the component, plugin, and module architecture have radically changed, had minor changes, or no changes - and the expected level of compatibility. Your answer indicates that you are ignorant of the situation and gave a flippant retort because you are too arrogant to admit your lack of information.

4. Thank you for a straight answer to one of the questions. It sounds like templates which use tables may still work, but the intent is for the templates to eliminate tables for best results, except as you noted.

Hackwar, I would appreciate it if you would not respond further to my questions and leave it to someone with more definitive information and a better attitude.

Thanks,

Liz

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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby masterchief » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:55 pm

2ninerniner2 wrote:1) Global Configuration > Permissions: ??? huh? oh boy, that grid confuses ME :)
2) Extension Manager > Options: same thing :)

Yes, this is still "Alpha" and I am certain a lot will happen before a stable release, but I cannot imagine sending this out to a client as it is.


Hi Lyle.

This version is certainly not ready for any clients. It's for people that are familiar with Joomla to look over and critique and developers to start looking under the hood. With regarding to deciphering the new permissions system, there are two good articles about them. See the following pages:

http://docs.joomla.org/ACL_Tutorial_for_Joomla_1.6
http://www.theartofjoomla.com/home/5-co ... la-16.html

Mark's wiki doc goes through the new user group and levels and my article concentrates on the theory behind the permissions system and the defaults out-of-the-box. The UI at the Global Configuration level is probably final, but we think the Component Options level can be made simpler (more in line with what you see when you edit a category).
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby Beat » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:00 pm

Hackwar wrote:Yes, they need to be different. And the rules that you are talking about are already in there.


That was still my question: why do they need to be different ?

I see exactly same settings in "access levels" as in "Edit", so they could be the same.

Also looking further for extensions, having a single, performant Rules-interface for all types of accesses and actions would help make the interface not only in core joomla, but also in extensions way simpler for the user (and for the software-engineer too, but user simplicity is more important here).

I guess Andrew had a good reason. ;) maybe it's simply that it's wip. :)
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby masterchief » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:08 pm

Hi Liz

oldbrit wrote:1. What's the general time frame for release of 1.6? I'm guessing 2 to 4 months??
I think that's a reasonable guess (more like 4 though), but anything can happen to change that.

oldbrit wrote:2. What's the extent of compatibility for existing 1.5 components, plugins, and modules?
If a dev is doing things the right way, and is truly running on the native 1.5 API then they will be in a good place and have the least amount of change. Devs that still run on legacy mode will not work at all. Devs that are in the middle and do things their own way are (unfortunately) on their own. I've yet to look at my own extension but as soon as I do I'll have a good idea what advice to give to Devs. JXtended (my extensions company) will be using like a forward compatibility plugin and we'll make that available for anyone that wants to use it.

oldbrit wrote:3. Is there a location where the status of component, plugin, and module updates for 1.6 will be posted? (If not, that would be handy!)
I would assume the JED will include a version 1.6 label at the appropriate time. It's too early for that yet though.

oldbrit wrote:4. What about theme compatibility? Are there any changes to the templating system between 1.5 and 1.6?
I gave a talk a while back about that and other compatibility issues here: http://www.vimeo.com/5516584 That might help. The biggest issue is that out-of-the-box the CSS and structure will change (tableless, semantic, etc). 1.6 will have an impact on templates but there should be workarounds (to what degree I'm not sure) available.

oldbrit wrote:5. Anyone want to contribute further questions in aid of understanding what will be involved in upgrading sites from 1.5 to 1.6?
We don't know what that will entail yet. I started a thread on the developer list to as for people interested in writing an automated updater. Can't tell you any more than that sorry.
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby masterchief » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:14 pm

Beat wrote:That was still my question: why do they need to be different ?

I guess Andrew had a good reason. ;) maybe it's simply that it's wip. :)
The short answer is "trust me" :) The view access levels in 1.5 work really, really well. They are simple to follow and simple to understand (though not flexible). In 1.6 we wanted to keep that simple formula so people didn't have to relearn things. Most people will want to play with the access levels - they won't be managing the permissions much.

The way we've done it is also the most efficient from a schema and API level. Given that there are several years of collective knowledge from Hannes, Louis, myself and others, it's hard to summarise in a few lines. I suggest you try to get to New York in December and we can pull it apart further. Really, the best thing is to start looking at the code. Yes, there are different ways to do things but each change that improves one thing, is a disadvantage elsewhere. It's been a delicate dance to balance a lot of competing wishes AND keep it simply to use.

Edit: typos
Last edited by masterchief on Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby masterchief » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:20 pm

Beat wrote:If this thread is not the right place for feedbacks, just tell me where the place is, and i will move them and post others there, as time permits ;)
The right tracker is this one:

http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/joomla ... er_id=8103

I would encourage you (and capable others) to actually go hunting for the bug, not just listing it, and submit a patch (it really, really saves me a lot of time). It will be good experience for you to start learning the ropes. It's going to be really important the 3rd party devs look at this because the core is going to be able to do some fancy things and you user communities are going to be asking you "why" it doesn't work like that in your components (layout overrides is a good example in 1.5 - many have embraced that properly yet).

Obviously, any technical queries can go to the CMS or possibly Framework development lists.
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby masterchief » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:25 pm

LDA wrote:BTW will you give out a API page like for 1.5 for the Alpha?
The developer.joomla.org site is under reconstruction and the API references will form part of that (just got a few too many things on the go at the moment, hehe). That will also be the place where I and other will be posting information on how developers can take advantage of the new goodies we've got. Of course, the best thing would be try to make it to New York in December :) http://opensourcematters.org/devconfere ... ation.html
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby webrp » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:46 pm

hi, that looks nice. Two questions:

-whats "Park Rangers" on ACL?
-Are you improving the user profile without an Avatar feature?

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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby masterchief » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:51 pm

webrp wrote:-whats "Park Rangers" on ACL?

That's just a test group. Whether is remains I'm not sure. The idea was to have sample content that relates to places in the world to visit and the Park Rangers knew about secret habitat locations using the demo "Confidential" access level.

webrp wrote:-Are you improving the user profile without an Avatar feature?
No. But we've made it easier for the social scene extensions to do that and the Comments system will have Gravatar support.
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby SFGolfer » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:37 am

Add New User - receiving an error in IE8 non-compatibility mode when adding a new user:

User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729)
Timestamp: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:17:22 UTC


Message: Number expected
Line: 16
Char: 89
Code: 0
URI: /media/system/js/mootools-core.js

Add New User blank screen - switched to IE8 compatibility mode and the resulting (blank) screen shows fields in duplicate (see attached screenshot).

Add New User - same add new user function in FF with the same email address as another user:

Fatal error: Call to undefined method JTableUser::getErrorMsg() in /home/account/public_html/joomla16/administrator/components/com_users/models/user.php on line 287
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby masterchief » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:52 am

IE8 still has a lot of known issues *sigh*.
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby webrp » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:07 am

is that ACL function be easy to disable?

I mean it seems a little bit complicated, does it have a disable or reset button?

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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby masterchief » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:15 am

webrp wrote:is that ACL function be easy to disable?

I mean it seems a little bit complicated, does it have a disable or reset button?
Out of the box it functions almost identically to Joomla 1.5. You don't need to touch anything if you don't want you. You don't have to go deeper than Global Configuration permissions if you don't want to.
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby AmyStephen » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:24 am

Image

Thanks Joomla! Devs! Love that Article Access Rules widget. Wow, is that slick.

@webrp - Of course it seems a little bit complicated for those of us who have been around awhile. We'll get it all figured out and end up wondering how we built sites without it. Let's expect a little fear and confusion, followed by glee. ;-)

Great job! Thanks!

Mark Dexter's Documentation on the Joomla! 1.6 ACL

Edit: Added documentation link
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby SFGolfer » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:27 am

Playing around with the ACL (using FF) and assigning a new user to various permissions.

Logging in as the user resulted in blank screens with only the top header bar and no menus or content. Closed the browser and logged in as the Super User. The new user is logged in according to the Control Panel Logged In Users. Clicking on the red logout X does not log out the user (they still appear as being logged in).

Further when attempting to disable the user in the User Manager and clicking on the green arrow under the Enabled column results in this error:

Fatal error: Uncaught exception 'JException' with message 'INVALID CONTROLLER' in /joomla16/libraries/joomla/application/component/controller.php:179 Stack trace: #0 /joomla16/administrator/components/com_users/users.php(21): JController::getInstance('Users') #1 /joomla16/libraries/joomla/application/component/helper.php(140): require_once('/home/netcipie/...') #2 /joomla16/administrator/includes/application.php(141): JComponentHelper::renderComponent('com_users') #3 /joomla16/administrator/index.php(40): JAdministrator->dispatch() #4 {main} thrown in joomla16/libraries/joomla/application/component/controller.php on line 179


I guess there is no other method to disable the user? I assumed there would be an option in the user edit screen.
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby masterchief » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:46 am

[quote="SFGolfer"
Logging in as the user resulted in blank screens with only the top header bar and no menus or content. Closed the browser and logged in as the Super User. The new user is logged in according to the Control Panel Logged In Users. [/quote]Adding a new user still takes too many steps and we are working on it. You have to make sure that for a backend group, you go into the Special access level and add that new group to be able to see it. Yeah, I know, seems daft but as I said, we'll work on it.
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby leolam » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:54 am

This is fabulous progress.

Like to say thanks to the Team who made this RC2 happen. It is a real milestone that we now for real can start playing with ACL.

Mark Dexter's Documentation on the Joomla! 1.6 ACL is very helpful indeed!


Suggestion: Open separate segmented bug forum for RC2 (not all know how to handle "G-groups")

Great Job!

Leo 8)
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby brad » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:58 am

We will open a 1.6 forum section the moment Beta 1 is released FYI.
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Re: Discuss: Joomla 1.6 Alpha 2 Released

Postby arisroyo » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:48 am

This is a great news, I wonder if we can start to modify some additional and changes in translation part.

Great Job for Joomla 1.6 Alpha
Last edited by arisroyo on Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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