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rww
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:30 pm 
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As I read through this thread, I began to wonder if there isn't at least a part and perhaps a major part of the template tutorial from Joomla! 1.0 that isn't usable as is for version 1.5. I know that some things will be different, but some (I would think) will be the same. For example, the techniques for rounded corners shouldn't change much, and the sections on W3C, tableless design, and CSS should be largely usable as is. The way I see it, there's no sense in reinventing the wheel if it rolls well as is.

My 2¢
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Chris Davenport
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:56 am 
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Hi rww,

You are right about some of the 1.0 material still being relevant for 1.5.  However, we also need to be mindful of the change in license that we are making at the same time.  The old template tutorial is under a CC-BY-NC-SA license, whereas the new one will be under the JEDL license.  These licenses are not compatible and so we are creating new material in those areas where dual licensing of the old material is not possible.

Regards,
Chris.

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rww
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:12 am 
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Where are these differences in licensing defined? I'm not familiar with either of them.

Thanks,
rww
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CirTap
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:19 pm 
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Hi,

rww wrote:
Where are these differences in licensing defined? I'm not familiar with either of them.


I can't give any legal advice, but in a nutshell:
- CC-BY-NC-SA: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/ for details
'SA' stands for share-alike, that is the author of the original work grants others to modify, use and distribute it. They "MAY" modify and they "MAY" tell the author about this. The author of the original work must be attributed (BY) and distribution must be non commercial (NC).

- JEDL: http://docs.joomla.org/JEDL
is close but no cigar. You are allowed to modify the original work, and iirc use the result for commercial distribution*), but you explicitely grant OSM "back" to use your modifications in their original work if they wish w/o asking you first. That's the "Grantback License" part.

*) I hope I didn't mess this up too much

One thing maybe: CC-BY-NC-SA is generic and can apply to documentation, media, software, etc. wheras JEDL is a documentation licence only, read: words :) It does not necessarily cover software/source code (of Joomla!), illustrations, or other media "per se".


Have fun,
CirTap

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Last edited by CirTap on Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CirTap
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:25 pm 
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and here's the FAQ :) http://docs.joomla.org/JEDL/FAQ

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tbmarcom
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:13 pm 
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Sorry,
on joomla.org, when i click Template Tutorial theres a nice one.
On Template Tutorial 1.5 this Forum is placed.

This means Template Tutorial is still not ready ?
Or do i overlook the link to it.

Sorry, cant read full thread, my english ist not the best to understand full thread here.


marko

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Chris Davenport
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:42 pm 
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The material completed so far can be seen here: http://docs.joomla.org/Outline_for_Template_Tutorials

Regards,
Chris.

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Daerils
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:52 pm 
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Chris Davenport wrote:
The material completed so far can be seen here: http://docs.joomla.org/Outline_for_Template_Tutorials

Regards,
Chris.

Ah, thanks, I was looking for this as well  8)

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mattm
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:31 pm 
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I seem to be throwing a hammer in the works. But after working with several templates, I'm wondering why it has been chosen to call them templates rather than themes.

A template to me is something you use to create another work. Such as HTML templates you create a main template then that is used to create the rest of the pages.

Joomla however has a core and is not made up of individual pages. Joomla itself is a program that controls the content we put into it. The word template dosent fit changing the style of Joomla. Theme is probably a more fitting and apealing word. Lately I've heard alot of companys saying we build from scratch not templates.

Which is turning the unknowing user away from anything that contains a template.
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SpacePyrit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:21 pm 
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Will this be a comprehensive tutorial or a simple one? I would prefer a comprehensive guide.
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Chris Davenport
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:40 pm 
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mattm wrote:
I seem to be throwing a hammer in the works. But after working with several templates, I'm wondering why it has been chosen to call them templates rather than themes.

A template to me is something you use to create another work. Such as HTML templates you create a main template then that is used to create the rest of the pages.

Joomla however has a core and is not made up of individual pages. Joomla itself is a program that controls the content we put into it. The word template dosent fit changing the style of Joomla. Theme is probably a more fitting and apealing word. Lately I've heard alot of companys saying we build from scratch not templates.

Which is turning the unknowing user away from anything that contains a template.


It is unfortunate that many words are "overloaded" with multiple meanings and "template" is undoubtedly one of them. As they have been referred to as "templates" since the very earliest days I think it unlikely that this will change. It would cause massive disruption and confusion if we were to attempt to do so.

Regards,
Chris.

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Chris Davenport
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:42 pm 
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SpacePyrit wrote:
Will this be a comprehensive tutorial or a simple one? I would prefer a comprehensive guide.

Both. The aim is to produce a collection of re-usable documentation modules that can be assembled into a variety of output documents. Some of those could be simple, others more comprehensive.

Regards,
Chris.

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LukeDouglas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:47 pm 
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Geezzzzz,

What's the difference? Templates....themes.... it's just a term but anyone who has been working with Mambo, Joomla or anyone of several different CMS systems knows 'exactly' what is meant.

Move on to something more important and that really contributes to the community instead of beating up on a talented group of developers for their chosen term for a particular application.
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mattm
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:08 am 
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Quote:
Move on to something more important and that really contributes to the community instead of beating up on a talented group of developers for their chosen term for a particular application.


I'm certainly not beating up the developers. I simply wanted to know what the reason behind the naming was. And yes I think it may be pertinant to to outcome of Joomla. When trying to market any product you want to be sure to word things correctly. The word templates is being put down by many Website Designers , Although deveopers and users of joomla or mambo or any cms for that matter knows the template usage. Unfortunately the end user does not. the rightful nameing would solve the marketing problem but the alternative is to back and push template construction. And I do believe Joomla is far more than a template.

I was simply wondering why its called a template. I have looked at the beginnings of the tutorial and this is not stated
thank you for your response
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SpacePyrit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:46 pm 
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Chris Davenport wrote:
Both. The aim is to produce a collection of re-usable documentation modules that can be assembled into a variety of output documents. Some of those could be simple, others more comprehensive.


Cool! Can't wait for it to be done. This is what I have been wanting. 8)
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timeshadowrider
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:04 am 
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How do I change the size top the Top Module for banners, i cant for the life of me figure out where I can change this. I have found the Logo and can change that but nothing changes the module's size.... I have some banners that are 468x100 and they keep getting cropped.
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madamep
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:37 am 
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This probably isn't the place to post this. But I think you need to look in the style sheet and change the dimensions there.

Hope this helps,

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relativityboy
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:41 pm 
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Hi,

I looked over the outline and it seems good for people just starting out, who know little about HTML/PHP, etc.

What about experienced developers? (I'm one of the super gurus writing enterprise software by day & playing with open source by night). I'm looking for something that describes the environment I'm working in. What classes are available? What are their variable names? What class am I in when I'm working in index.php in the root template file? What is the syntax of some of the (what appear to be special) codes in html?

I think it would be really great if you came up with an environment description document first (using your modular concept) and, once you have that created, re-use components of it for the tutorial.... (since many of the best coders don't really need a tutorial, they need a search box and a good set of docs... which I haven't found for the templating system yet)
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vidya74
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:34 pm 
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Hi,
I am a newbee and wish to contribute to the template documentation project. I have some knowledge of how this is done in Dreamweaver (which i am using currently) and can be of some help, if i am allowed to. Please let me in.
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vidya74
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:39 am 
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Hello,
I have visited the page : http://docs.joomla.org/Outline_for_Template_Tutorials and have noticed that i can help out with adding hyperlinks to the keywords/phrases in the document(s), wherever possible, in true wiki style. By adding hyperlinks i feel that the user can navigate with ease within the main document. But for this i need the right permissions to add the links.
Regards,
Vidya
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vidya74
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:44 am 
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Hi,
I have been to the following URL: http://docs.joomla.org/Outline_for_Temp ... anslations
after going over the suggestions and comments at page 1 of this "Template Tutorial-Let's Get Started" and have come to the conclusion that the documentation for "how to make an installation for a Template" is not yet ready(forgive me if i am wrong). I have done some searching and have come with the following at this URL which might be of some help: http://help.joomla.org/content/view/1618/125/.
With Regards,
Vidya.
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Chris Davenport
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:11 pm 
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Hi vidya74,

Sorry it's taken a while to respond; my to-do list just never seems to get shorter. :(

To get write access to the wiki you just need to register (there's a link to log on/register in the top right corner of each page). You automatically get write access once you complete the registration process.

Careful with http://help.joomla.org/content/view/1618/125/ as that refers to Joomla! 1.0.x and the template documentation on docs.joomla.org is being written for 1.5+.

Thanks for volunteering.

Regards,
Chris.

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jlevitt
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:39 pm 
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Any update on this? I'm new to Joomla! and have read through the Template Doc on v1.1 and would love to learn about the improvements to templates in v1.5.

Thanks for all the work you've done.
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alandove
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:45 pm 
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Hey, folks:

Someone should really fix the links scattered around the Developer site that say "Joomla 1.5 Template Tutorial." The links points to this forum thread, which gives a shockingly bad impression: 1.5 has been out for a few months now, and the template documentation hasn't even begun to be created? I can imagine more than a few open source newbies being turned off completely by that.

Having been around open source software for awhile, I knew that this information probably existed somewhere, and that it was just very poorly indexed. Sure enough, one can scroll through the entire three pages of this thread to find a link to the actual documentation "outline," which is actually a rapidly growing Wiki page (here it is again: http://docs.joomla.org/Outline_for_Template_Tutorials - in case you're one of those unfortunate souls scouring this site for it).

Besides fixing the links, we could probably close down this thread and move the discussion to the actual work site, i.e. the wiki. The site appears to be running MediaWiki, which has extensive facilities for meta-discussion built in.

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jlevitt
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:39 pm 
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Thanks, Alan. You hit the nail on the head with the scattered 1.5 links. I was completely confused.
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alandove
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:12 pm 
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Hey, folks:

Sorry for the double post, but I just uncovered an even more useful page to send tutorial-seekers to:

http://docs.joomla.org/Joomla!_1.5_Template_Tutorials_Project

The current table of contents is near the top, and that includes links to usable information on templates. Hopefully, we'll get a separate landing page set up at some point, so people who want to read the tutorial can be directed to one place, and people who want to help write it will go to another. Sending the former folks to the latter destination is a recipe for mass confusion.

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Chris Davenport
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:41 pm 
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Good idea! I have updated the links on http://help.joomla.org and http://dev.joomla.org. If you notice any other links that could be amended, just let me know.

Thanks,
Chris.

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0ajuicy
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:15 am 
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Quote:
Good idea! I have updated the links on http://help.joomla.org and http://dev.joomla.org. If you notice any other links that could be amended, just let me know.

Thanks,
Chris.


Sincerely thanks for updating the links. :D

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seoalan
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:20 pm 
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Hi all..
I have just started with joomla.Not a great expert on it. I tried many tutorials on net and even on this thread there are lots of references. Can anyone suggest me the best one which contains all the details.
Sorry but i am not great at templates.I can mangage php scritps but these templates contain xml and other things.Wher can i find details of all the materials..

Thanks in advance..

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alandove
 Post subject: Available tutorials
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:03 pm 
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The most current version of the official Template Tutorial is in the wiki (http://docs.joomla.org/Joomla!_1.5_Template_Tutorial), and if you start with the first chapter, you should be able to get the information you need. You might also check out the slightly dated 1.5 tutorial at Compass Designs (http://www.compassdesigns.net/tutorials ... orial.html). That will walk you through the basics, but last I checked, some of the information conflicts with the way things are actually done in the final 1.5 release.

Beyond those two resources, the best learning tool is experimentation: set up a Joomla! page on your localhost server (install XAMP or MAMP to get a localhost server running easily if you don't already have it), and start playing around with it.

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