Joomla! Discussion Forums

You may find this post of direct interest.

http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,33282.0.html

So what's with the official announcement then, the one mediamagnate alluded to?
Sad to see you go, glad to see you hang around.. all the best.
Stay in touch, mes amitiés!

Ditto.




[me=Vimes]not a man of many words.[/me]

Sorry to see this as well. A big thank you for all your work and ideas.

I give up. 

Well said.  I share the same thoughts and hopes.

GRAM

Nic didn't say his ethics and principles felt like they were being battered around.  What he actually wrote was: "I cannot compromise my ethics and principles anymore".  This is very different to him leaving because of differences in opinions. Perhaps it is a lack of healthy debate, information sharing, or some other thing that has led to him leaving.  He hasn't said. Remember, we are just the community and we are not party to what goes on in the core. Nic obviously feels very strongly about the project and U&A and clearly wishes to still contribute. Whatever his reasons are for leaving the core, they are between him and the other remaining core team members. I don't think any of us should speculate about what has been happening.

I give up. 

I am another of the many who appreciate the help and insight you have given me in regards to U&A and other matters.

All the best and if circumstances allow, I hope to see you around in the future.

In response to the barrage of abusive email and PM's I have had saying I am not showing any understanding or support for Nic, I would like to point out to those of you who do not know, that I support Nic wholeheartedly. 

The original post on the General forum was locked to prevent discussion. This thread was not. You will notice that at this stage Nic is not responding to any of this discussion.  He did, however, know what I wrote before it was posted.

Nic is a man of great personal integrity. He did not have a tantrum and "throw in the towel", nor did he leave because of any differences in opinion.  He stated clearly why he resigned. If anyone doesn't understand how his ethics and principles were being compromised, perhaps in time they will come to understand.

I know he very much appreciates all the good wishes being expressed both here and through email. I *really* do know.  I am not "jumping to conclusions", "showing disrespect for vavroom" or "interfering" in "something you dont have a clue about".  It's been interesting to read about how informed some in the community think they are. Sadly, had they been better informed they would know that I live and work with Nic and am proud to be his fiancee.

I give up. 

First of all, thanks for all your work and dedication, Nicolas. It is always pleasant to read your view on things on the forum, and hopefully you will stay present here. Joomla isn't there yet with the U&A .

@AmyStephan
Nic and Jean-Marie both have their reasons for leaving the core team, we should respect that. They are not the first people to leave, nor will they be the last ones. Other people will join again, the message on the frontpage also tells that. In the end I am saddened by their leave as well. Us people in the forum are not part of the inner workings and discussions of the dev team, nor should we be IMHO.

@ Elpie
I learn something new here every day .

I give up. 

All of the time?

It's a big team Amy, and people do leave from time to time. They left when we were Mambo, and will leave in the future. Not everyone will 'leave on good terms' (for want of a better term).

A ficticious example:
Not everyone can leave on a good note, that is just a fact of life:
(and I am in no way saying that in reference to this situation. For example note example.. not applying to this situation, what if you have a Team member who is disruptive and can't work with the rest of the team, is not trustworthy etc etc.. you get the picture... do you think the 'Team' should tolerate that behaviour? Of course not, but steps should be taken to try to resolve it... so.. well people leave for various reasons.)

However I don't see how this situation reflects negatively on the project at all.. in fact it's positive.. if I leave tomorrow, I am sure that someone will 'replace' me as well.. no one is indispensable.

Now just to preface this all...
I have known Nic for 3 yrs, and still work commercially with him from time to time. In fact I introduced him to Joomla (Mambo). We get on just fine, however as to his reasons for quitting, I suggest you read his post and/or contact him.

JM - We have known each other for yrs as well.. and regularly still keep in touch. You can see that JM is still hard at work in the Language Zone and help site. If you want to know his reasons, I suggest you contact him as well.

My personal thoughts... Nic and JM *might* be back, who knows, but for now they are both comfortable with their decisions it seems. I can't see any BATTLE myself...

[me=brad]shrugs after trying his best to explain.[/me]

Edit: added italics.

I give up. 

Sorry you took it the wrong way.. I was only trying to present a balanced view, having worked on this project for a fairly long time.. I won't be drawn into an argument either.

To also address your question about the forum announcement, I can't speak for Rey, but it appears he just copied the an nouncent 'intro' from the main page. I don't think there was anything sinister there.

BTW FYI, I have privately conveyed to Nic and JM my opinions of them as people and my personal appreciation for what they have done for the project.

Amy, we have something in common you know.. we both 'love Joomla', so if you want to contact me to discuss this further feel free to email me your details and I'd be happy to give you a phone call.

I give up. 

Amy, despite my requests for you to not go jumping to conclusions, it appears that you are not only determined to do so, but are prepared to have an argument to defend your assumptions.

Nic gave his reason for leaving and it is the ONLY reason that has been given.
To assume that Nic got in a huff and left due to personal disagreements is just so wrong and shows a complete lack of knowing Nic.
We both have very good relationships with many of the core dev team - did before Nic was on the core and nothing has changed.
There were no fights, yelling, arguments, personal conflicts, and there are no hurt feelings - why should there be? 

Neither Jean-Marie nor Nic have left the community. They are both passionate about this community and about the project itself. They always have been and nothing has changed about that. 

I have asked nicely for people to not speculate on reasons for leaving. There is no point. Nic gave everyone the courtesy of the only explanation he is prepared to give at this stage and that it all there is to it - end of story.

I give up, Elpie. I have no idea how to make you happy. Despite my attempts at trying.

What a strange direction this thread has taken in such few posts..
I give up unfortunately doesn't tell much anymore about the original message(s), so no point really in discussing anything further.

Just wanted to add that I have now left both Doc Team and U&A, not because of any fundamental disagreement or quarrel or anything bad, but just because I
a/feel I can't dedicate as much time as I'd feel I'd have to (to personnaly feel I'm doing ok, not because it is imposed somehow),
b/prefer to be free of any title and not be limited to a particular team, so I can "hop around" between testing, suggesting features and UI stuff etc (I am a big fan of the wishlist forum ) and other things
c/can say whatever I want without watching my words too much because it might be percieved by the "general public" as a statement by someone of any importance, which I'm surely not...
d/ more personal reasons I'm not going to expose and or discuss..

I miss Nic', I'm sure we'll see him doing what he does well: put in a good word to make J! as good as possible for ALL users. And if he has other things to do, fine, up to him.. A departure is a personal decision, and has nothing to do with the community at large. Up to anyone here to stand up and keep the fire burning.. which I do not intend to stirr by this reply, ok?!

Thank you for posting Joe.  I'm not going to be making "Goodbye and thanks and good luck" noises here, because, simply, taking off a couple of hats doesn't actually change anything about your contributions to the community as a whole. Those of us who have been around for a few years know how incredibly valuable your contributions are and also know that whether you wear an official hat or not, you are, like others who have stepped down from formal roles, a person who cares about the project, helps people in the community, and keeps doing this regardless of any titles.

You almost gave me a heart attack when I first glanced at this thread though!  If you, Jean-Marie, or Nic were leaving the community (and not just your titles and ties to the core team) it really would be the most incredibly sad day.

Remember that post where YOU said you were leaving..?
All the best & thanks.

Nic I am sad to see you drop out of the project core, as I know you are very well versed in Accessibility, Standards and Usability, but very glad you will still be contributing to help people like me that are trying to find the way to standard compliant and accessible web design.

To say that "I cannot compromise my ethics and principles anymore", without any qualification of some sort of reference, tends to leave the reader with the sense that the rest of the Joomla Team is unethical and without principle, not directly but it kind of paints with a broad brush leaving that sort of feeling.  I would like to think you don't mean as such (at least that would be out of character for you as far as I know).  You may want to rethink that part of your response, or perhaps be a just a little more specific so that there isn't a bad feeling left in the mouth regarding the rest of the team for the readers.  (then again not if that is your intended meaning)..

If that's how *you* want to interpret what I said, it's your entire right.  But again, that is an assumption.

I did not imply that the core team was unethical.  I simply came to realise we do not share some values that are important to me.

I wasn't going to add to this thread (as I don't know nic from adam), but I now feel duty bound to respond

All I want to say is that to me it doesn't really matter if nic is on the core dev team or not as long as we still see him around.

If this thread continues on at (in my opinion here...) a tanget which makes nic, or anyone else who decides that they don't want to be on the core team any longer feel as if they have to justify their every decision, I wouldn't blame them if they gave up input into the community all together.

My opinion of Nic (not that it matters) is that he's a decent, helpful, talented and knowledgeable man. On the issue of his resignation he has his reasons and although I don't pretend to know what they are I back him 110%. Surely everyone has the right to contribute how they wish? IMHO that's what makes the Joomla community a COMMUNITY.

@ Nic -  All the best for the future in whatever you hope and wish for. I for one am glad that the community hasn't lost you all together

Thank you.

There is a marked difference (at least to me) between the two statements "I cannot compromise my ethics and priciples anymore" and "I simply came to realise we do not share some values that are important to me."  It can be quite difficult to acertain intent when dealing with text on a page, as you cannot detect the emotion behind a statement.  This is most of the reason behind flame wars and misunderstandings on forums, sometimes a little bit of reference or qualification of a statement helps to prevent it.

Thank you for expanding. 

I absolutely agree with you haaris.  Nic has helped me out numerous times and I fully appreciate it.  I would just hate for anyone to get the idea that I am against Nic because nothing could be further from the truth. 

Nope, wasn't meaning you MMM

I was referring to other posts on the thread (some of them deleted now) that just gave me the feeling that they were asking Nic to explain his every decision - I'm with you - I thank Nic for the help he's given me in various dilemas in the past and I look forward to more biscuits of wisdom in the future