Multilanguages, why not make it like joomfish?

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Sergejack
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Multilanguages, why not make it like joomfish?

Postby Sergejack » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:02 am

I'm quite disappointed by the way multi langues Joomla! websites work.
The mechanisms are as bad as those of Drupal despite the clever way Joomfish handled things back in 1.5.

Why do we have to have as much menus as languages?
Whenever you make a change to the structure, you have to reproduce the same steps for every languages.
This is so known to be a source of mistakes.

I really think things should go in the direction Joomfish gave.

Maybe it's possible (it is, but it might involve a lot of coding) to have both systems (in order not to break existing one).

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pe7er
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Re: Multilanguages, why not make it like joomfish?

Postby pe7er » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:15 am

Thank you for your opinion about Joomfish & how Joomla 1.7 handles multilanguage.
In the past I've used Joomfish for a couple of Joomla 1.5 websites.

IMHO Joomla 1.7 multilanguage is *much* better then a multilanguage extension like Joomfish:
1. Creating articles is much easier. You do not have to use Components > Joomfish > select which table you want to translate. While this method was suitable for my own sites, for my customers who just learned how to work with Joomla, it was too difficult.
2. You do not have to translate every article one on one to the other language
3. The performance (loading of the site) is better without using that 3rd party extension (please look at how Joomfish stores the data in the tables).

So I'm quite happy with how Joomla 1.7 works with multi languages.
Kind Regards,
Peter Martin, Global Moderator
http://www.db8.nl - Joomla specialist, Nijmegen, Nederland
Latest website: https://pronounce.eu/

Sergejack
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Re: Multilanguages, why not make it like joomfish?

Postby Sergejack » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:18 pm

Joomfish worked as well as it could as a component and not a built in feature.
So, yes you had to access translations through "component -> joomfish -> etc." which is of course not what I'm wishing for.
And the same thinking goes about the performance, "it did as well as it could" (with the total flexibility it has).

I just think, one should be able to create just one menu for all languages and manage real relationship between translations.

For the time being, the multilingual support is just as good as to have several distinct websites sharing a set of settings and data.

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Re: Multilanguages, why not make it like joomfish?

Postby cryptonit » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:27 am

I totally agrre with Sergejack.

I think the best way for multilanguage support would be if we only had to create an article/menu item/etc. ONE TIME. But let's say we had a dropdown list on the top of every edit/create form where we could pick the language the content is for.

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kalemanzi
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Re: Multilanguages, why not make it like joomfish?

Postby kalemanzi » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:53 am

Ditto cryptonit Sergejack.

I believe this is a very important topic and needs more attention from the dev side of Joomla 1.7 and further versions.

I wish Alex from Joomfish could be pulled into that part of the core development and some of his code could become part of the Joomla core. One thing is for sure, if you have a multi language website, you want to translate everything. The core, the menu names, all extensions etc. If Joomfish could be integrated into the article edit screen, and there is only a dropdown on top of the edit box where you can select the language of the current article, it would be amazing. The big deal is, the content must have the same ID. eg. if I have an article in English called "One" and it has a line of text "The cat jumped on the mouse", there must be a translation for it and when an Afrikaans person visits the url but selected AF (with the same ID) making the title "Een" and "Die kat het op die muis gespring". Having two sets of content and menus with different article ids does not make sense for me at all. I think this is where Joomfish really has a great angle on translation.

I have also been using the joomla translation manager in conjunction with joomfish to help me translate the other modules and components. Have not checked yet if it works on 1.7, but such a manager as a core functionality would also be very much welcomed by the community.
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cryptonit
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Re: Multilanguages, why not make it like joomfish?

Postby cryptonit » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 am

kalemanzi wrote:The big deal is, the content must have the same ID.

kalemanzi wrote:Having two sets of content and menus with different article ids does not make sense for me at all. I think this is where Joomfish really has a great angle on translation.


I think you hit the nail on the head with that!

Articles/menu items/what so ever with the same content but in another language must have the same id. I'd say everything else is rubish...

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kalemanzi
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Re: Multilanguages, why not make it like joomfish?

Postby kalemanzi » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:41 pm

pe7er wrote:Thank you for your opinion about Joomfish & how Joomla 1.7 handles multilanguage.
In the past I've used Joomfish for a couple of Joomla 1.5 websites.

IMHO Joomla 1.7 multilanguage is *much* better then a multilanguage extension like Joomfish:
1. Creating articles is much easier. You do not have to use Components > Joomfish > select which table you want to translate. While this method was suitable for my own sites, for my customers who just learned how to work with Joomla, it was too difficult.
2. You do not have to translate every article one on one to the other language
3. The performance (loading of the site) is better without using that 3rd party extension (please look at how Joomfish stores the data in the tables).

So I'm quite happy with how Joomla 1.7 works with multi languages.


Haha Peter, little did I know you would be doing the language talk on the ZA Joomla Day about this very topic. Was very informative, and I do believe you have the right approach there.
There are 10 types of people. Those who understand Binary, and those who don't.
Custom web development, extentions, help with migrations, help with hacked websites etc. http://www.kalemanzi.com

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pe7er
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Re: Multilanguages, why not make it like joomfish?

Postby pe7er » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:06 pm

kalemanzi wrote:Haha Peter, little did I know you would be doing the language talk on the ZA Joomla Day about this very topic. Was very informative, and I do believe you have the right approach there.

I didn't know it either back then when I posted in this topic :)
Good to hear that you liked my talk!

Something else: Joomla 3.0.2 has a new feature: Article Association.
This will make it possible to associate articles from different languages together (just like with Joomfish for Joomla 1.5)
.
Kind Regards,
Peter Martin, Global Moderator
http://www.db8.nl - Joomla specialist, Nijmegen, Nederland
Latest website: https://pronounce.eu/


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