Joomla! Discussion Forums

OK, maybe this idea will be more productive...

From looking at the site showcase and the way that people some people apply Joomla! to their tasks, I can see that for the most part, the average user will almost use Joomla! as is, straight out of the box.

We all know that Joomla! is an incredibly flexible tool, but has a bit of a learning curve for the non-technical/uninitiated to get the best out of it, and promotion is all about setting out your stall.

Instead of just listing the applications and possibilities of Joomla!; 'Corporate websites or portals, Online commerce, Small business websites'....etc. It may be more productive to set up editor optimised bundle installations that the newbie user can just pick off the shelf, rather than them having to spend endless hours learning, experimenting and being frustrated.

This concentrated amount of effort may encourage a lot of new, non-technical users and give them an advantage that other multi-use CMSs don't provide. For instance:

Blog Package
Blog style template, 'editors picks' selected blogging components, sample blog content focussed towards this type of website etc.

Small Business Package
Brochure style template, 'editors picks' business tool components, sample business content and sections for brochure site; About Us, Our Services etc.

eCommerce Package
eCommerce style template, 'editors picks' shopping cart components, sample product content and presentation.

As well as the standard Portal; Magazine Package, Corporate Package, Personal Package, Community Package... you get the idea.

All the stuff is out there, it would just require some good selection, organisation, testing and a bit of support, and we would be able to retain a lot of users that maybe just aren't as smart as you guys... You may ending up getting more people switching from other systems and applications this way.

Give it some thought.

I agree but there are problems.

The biggest of which is that it has always been the intention for joomla to be lean and that the choice of extension is upto the end user. There is also a potential is that by including 3pd extensions the impression would be made that these were both approved and supported by the core. Unless the extension was either written by or fully audited by the core team this would not be possible.

However what could be done is that instead of 1 or 2 generic templates a range of templates to match the uses you describe could be included.

I was thinking more in the line of it being like an approved 3rd party installation of joomla with all the required extensions and maybe preinstalled categories (about us, company overview , news ) . I have deployed a couple of test joomla sites over the past 2 months, there are some extensions that i wish i could just preinstall and not have to do it again.....
They are  JCE , artbannerplus , ...
Funny thing is i stumbled on an installation of joomla once that had ecommerce components built in..it had virtualmart and some other things ... i cant seem to find it again.

So maybe this is something for one of those joomla pros that are not members of the core team to pick up on. From the much i have read the core team seems to be busy tweaking joomla 1.5 .....

I think this one is a "no-brainer, gotta do it, yes, where do we sign up?" kind of suggestion. I like it.

Along with this, I'd also throw in the concept of free blogger HOSTING like WordPress.com offers -- and -- "How in the heck would we pay for something like that?", you might ask. Well, we can do it for FREE if we work with Jimmy Wales, the founder of Wikipedia < http://www.openserving.com/ >.

OK. So, we have a hosted environment + a blogger (already packaged and EZ to use). We need bloggers. A community of bloggers all across the world. What if we utilized community members in teams and sent them out to 100 campuses across 20 countries this Fall 2007 and challenged them to HOOK UP 500 STUDENTS on each campus!!!  (Grabbing my calculator -- that would be 50,000 new community members in a moment!).

Of course, there will be support issues and future consequences, not the least of which will be MORE community members. Just to state the obvious, these new community members would be SMART, well educated young people SOON to enter the job market and help make decisions in corporate and educational and small business environments.

Good idea, Mark. Gonna need some design work and a theme...

Thanks for your contributions!
Amy

As the 1.0.x stream is now grandfathered, now is the perfect opportunity to build these bundle stacks. That's part of the problem with nearly 1300 extensions. There remains no maturity between extensions / cross extensions / cross core, so as to standardise and consolidate into simpler, easier to use, packages/installers.

If we had a way of vetting or building 1300 packages into like 20 addon packs for specific uses, then we might get somewhere. Unfortunately, that takes time.. and I'm already reforking stuff like EventList and GigCal and Community Builder into more unified products..

Lawrence -

I really like Mark's idea - particularly with the blogger aspect of it because it can be used to reach younger people.

I am curious your opinion on how "the market" would respond to a v 1.0.x vs v. 1.5 solution. If v 1.5 was out and we were offering v 1.0.x solutions, I think that'd be a tough sell. Your thoughts on this?

This has to be something that is done outside of the core who are obviously too busy - but - I think the right combination of third party folks who want to see *their tools used* in a BIG way could make it happen.

And we'd need volunteers to help with OpenServing. Have you read on OpenServing and what they are doing? I think there is real potential for a partnership there. What do you think of this aspect?

Thanks for posting on this one - I think there is some merit to Mark's suggestion. I think it will happen.
Amy

The problem is that there's isn't the maturity.. 1.0.x has a lot of immature products, way beyond market saturation (Do we really need 1300 products? Think about it..), and 1.5 has very few products which are even more immature since 1.5 is still perpetually beta-fied.

You'd be suprised how many projects I'm actively forking to make it work the way I need it to, just to make them play nice with microformats and my API specs. My aim is to build unified products that talk across each other and across the core, as it will allow me to share/API that data in the longer term. I can then roll the framework that surrounds unification into 1.7 or 2.0 ?

1.5 doesn't have the breadth of products that are available for 1.0.x, and won't for a while, as you can't build a package for 1.5 if the 3PD market isn't there with it.

1.0.x would be an easy sell if 1.5 was out as 1.5 still wouldn't have the maturity available within a 1.0.x package. Once the 3PD caught up in terms of breadth and quality for 1.5 ( and that'd happen only once 1.6 came out and 1.5 was grandfathered in the same way as 1.0.x), then and only then could you do the same thing with 1.5. Otherwise, you're continually updating the package build, when really, you should ensure the codebase path for all products involved remained secure (and that only happens when the relevant trunk is closed.. as has happened with 1.0.x).

It's also why I fork accessibility for a product primarily when a trunk is closed. It saves me the overhead of version control management (which I've experienced painfully back whilst doing 3PD Standards as part of Mambo, though I did encounter it again as part of my help in a8e).

How are you getting these projects to work together better? I'm interested!

There is already a bundle designed for schools produced by ........ but sadly they have released it under a commercial license even though it contains only free software.

Doesn't Soren over at VirtueMart do this with his Joomla ECommerce package?

http://virtuemart.net/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=66

Yes and I think Vince has done it with jomres

Ive actually just released a Start Blogging Package - free to install or download. Here is an overview:

Its essentially a mix of the Blog Sidebar, Ja Submit, JosComment, RD RSS feed and a few other handy things like mycontent and some other mambots - that aim to turn Joomla into an easy to use blog without needing to log in to the backend after the user has set it up.

I think it is going to be handy for some people but its missing some stuff like trackback and I think that Jomcomment would be a much more suitable addon but its not GNU - so the user will have to add that on later.

You can download it from the download section or install it from the online installer.

Here is the link: http://www.joomlabamboo.com

Cheers Anthony.

Hey everybody -

It looks like this topic has been shelved for a little while, but I found it several days ago and was pretty excited to see it.

A Little History
I had a very similar idea to what infinitimm said in his initial post a while ago and have been using similar "bundles" for my own projects; I develop many websites for clients and do many Joomla installs.

So, in order to expedite the installation process and rid myself of the repetitive tasks I did for EVERY Joomla installation, I started creating my own "packages" to use for rapid website deployment.  Depending on the requirements of the project, I assembled and re-used these packages. I doubt I'm the only person to use this approach, but I have yet to find a quality, complete bundle that's available to everyone (besides the one I'm about to show you, of course  ).

Joomla Bundles
I have put together a "Joomla bundle" titled "QuickStart Bundle" that includes many of the common 3rd party extensions used by the majority of Joomla users. In addition, some other SEO and usability tweaks have been done to enhance 1) the end-user's experience and 2) the administrator's experience (writer, publisher, etc) with the site.

This bundle is meant to be a sort of "all-purpose", not specific to any purpose... but if there is interest, I have many other bundles I would love to develop and share with everyone.

Please test it out and feel free to tell me your thoughts. I hope it helps the community!

[Moderator note (RobInk); links removed due to being Self Promotion]

Moderator note; links have been removed from the last reply, they are considered self promotion (check forum rules).

My apologies, RonInk; I am aware of the forum rules and self-promotion was never my intention.  I thought I was on-topic and had an appropriate response (and valuable to all readers) to add to this thread.

If my post would be better suited elsewhere in the forums, I would not object to moving it.  I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

Sean

No worries... your reply can remain in here as it is to the point 

Was not sure of where to post this, or how to start this or who to approach first...  So, I figured I would hang out in the lounge and just throw it out there.

1 - I am not a developer, nor am I CMS, PHP, MYSQL or anything web expert - other than a expert "Noob Questions Asker"  I have been only that to the Joomla community (although, with out us noobs - who would be there to bother you and give you days filled with stuff to do? )

2 - What I am is an organizer and a idea guy - and I am good at ideas and I got lots of them...hence, I have a dream. 

Here, is the dream...to help give back to the community and make me less of a noob -  (:pop I know your waiting in anticipation)

I came up with an idea. OOOOH  AWWWW

Well, after seeing Virtue Mart and Rocket Theme (blatant product placement) pre-package the Joomla installs with their products already in them...I thought hmmmmmm

A - I already had an idea about creating a support site that is organized different than anyone else (because I am like that)
B - WOW - imagine if the best of the best addons (voted on - come on this is democracy) were pre-installed and packaged to go.
C - even better if everything was organized by server set up - more on that in bit



Breakdown -

- Need a Core Team oversees project

- Need Sub Teams (Branches of the Core Team) to over see the different server set ups (example - I am hosted on Netfirms - find all the similar hosting plans and that is one team, then repeat that till - oh maybe, 10 teams with 10 different server set ups)

- community votes on addons (components, mods, plugins) and each team puts together a prepackaged Joomla installation that matches their teams server set up (this could also help with security issues - as each team is more familiar with that server set up) - they could also put together varation packages and so, on.... 

- Then Noobs Like Me - Can download these prepackaged wonders that match our server set up and WOW - NOOB Questions drop to a more tolerable amount.

- PLUS (they noob questions can be centered on ONE forum) - I am working on a WORKFLOW IDEA - It takes all parties involved with Joomla and creates a forum structure that is more conclusive to creating BETTER COOL JOOMLA STUFF FOR ALL THE JOOM COMMUNITY (wow, I sound pretty cocky for a noob) - that will streamline questions for both the noob and the developer - nothing more frustrating (other than no answer at all) than searching through the endless seas of questions and forums to find out something.

- oh, if anyone is offended by the word NOOB - Hey, I am proud to be a noob,  I got lots of nicknames people call me - chicks even call me a neanderthal - I just grunt back and say - "UHG UHG - More beer"  LOL  Anyway all in fun.

So, that is just a rough idea of the direction I want to go with the site, but I have more ideas -- So, anyone want to join me???  Also, feed back would be great too.

Do you think this would be a good idea?  Would it help newbies? -- just throw it alllllllll out there.

Thanks
William the Artist
Joomla Noob Extraordinar

Good luck with your future endeavours 

I love your enthusiasm.

A few comments:

Server setups can vary widely, but for the most part are pretty similar.  A better idea would probably be to find a good hosting site, or create your own hosting that is made ideal for Joomla and other CMS type systems.  Why have server support for servers that someone else is making money on?  If you're going to dream... make the best server hosting for Joomla on the web.

As far as support, most of the time it's not a lack of knowledge that is the problem, it's the lack of effort people put into researching a solution.  So repackaging support will draw some people, but it doesn't address the fundamental issue.

Popular Joomla extensions that people can vote on.  Ummm.. I thought I'd direct your attention to what's behind curtain number 3 here -(http://extensions.joomla.org/).

All in all, I do commend you on your energy and wit, but for me, you're not winning me over with something that is new and innovative.  It sounds like a nice marketing spin on something already in existence; there's not much there you are saying that is going to do more than what is currently offered.

Not to deflate your dream or anything...

1.0 - Servers...the setting up server hosting - duly noted.  But for now looking at creating a forum for each individual host so that people can go to the forum and find their host and discuss their host with others who are using the same host....hmmmm did that come out right? Say that sentence 3x fast. 

1.1 -So, in the end...once this is going - we convince the Joomla Core Team to Ummm - do the hosting.  I mean why not?  One they can charge fees for hosting and still be a non-profit, they will probably just have to pay taxes on that money, but I am no lawyer.  Then they can make lots of money to support this project and make the BEST DAMN HOSTING PLAN for Joomla.  (Already thought of that one -- just was going to bring it up later.  I mean what are people going to say --- boooo hoooo Joomla is open source and they are charging money for hosting!!!!!!  Actually they probably will, but they can go find their own hosting and mooch of everyone else - whining and complaining the whole time.  Hmmm, just venting.  In other words we all pay for hosting already because Joomla is only good if you put it on the world wide web.  I mean you can run it on your desktop, but your hit ratio will be real low.  So, no one could whine if they did offer Joomla Hosting and it would just make you feel all warm inside.

2.0 - As far as support - I know where you are coming from on that one, but I put big thought into that one - one incentives, incentives and more incentives...  But I will leave that for later - that is a surprise... (nothing like anticipation to get peoples motors running - works great with chicks too, also humor works great too.)


3.0 - Popular Joomla Ext. - UMMM - DUH lol Just kidding.  I was referring to what ones to package into the joomlauncher packages.  But again...surprise, surprise, surprises in store for this one too.

4.0 - Speaking of Marketing...that was another feature I wanted to add, since I am calling this Joomlauncher - the idea is to launch your joomla site spending more time on everything but fighting setup, marketing and blah, blah, blah. 

4.1 - See I am an Ex-Metrologist (no I didn't do weather - M E T R O L O G Y  Not  M E T R O L I G I S T)  Anyway, I always found after some intensive years of training when the newbies came along - the old pros forgot what it is like to be a newbie.  Now, me - I am rooting for both the Joomla Project and the Newbies, with a touch of Hoorah for the pros.

5.0 - Deflate??  In no way are you deflating...your response, respect and feed back is encouraging.  I am working on a project for over 30 years now that I have not released to the world...it might take me another 30 years but in no way would anything stop me...I have a feeling I will be doing from my grave if I have too.  Oooh - that was yucky visual.

Thanks
William the Artist

I am moving this to the Foundation forum, as there is already a post there regarding Joomla! bundles that this can be merged with.

http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,130190.0.html

That's understandable.  You might find, though, that some of the forums will be utilizing a great deal, and others will not.  Probably might be better to set up more like a knowedgebase than a forum.

Where you'll probably see the most activity are those who are trying to do the 'cheap' hosting with companies like Yahoo and GoDaddy.  Although it would seem at first that relying on a large company would be a smart move, I can tell you in my experience (being a reseller of sorts myself) that it's just not the case.  It takes a lot of time to research and find a host that has good servers / good options / and service that you can live with.  I am here to say, that's difficult for $4 a month.



Another option could be to do the hosting and make it CMS friendly hosting.  I doubt the core team needs any more responsibility with a hosting company.  A better plan would be to do the hosting service, and let people know that you are donating some of the proceeds to free software groups like Joomla.



I can see you running with an idea like Experts Exchange (a site that I use quite a bit) where people are rewarded for supporting the community, whether it be just fame or bragging rights, or it could be some sort of monetary, or other type gift for those who go above and beyond.  That would require quite a back end system though, so it wouldn't be cheap.  People would probably have to pay for membership.  But that might be prohibitive, since they could come here and get free support.  You'd have to really have some top notch people and give some world-class support if you want people to pay for it.



I see what you are saying.  You're thinking of something more along the lines of joomlapolis, and all of this ties into joomlauncher.

.  

Tweaks that make the site the most it can be.  Yes, I can see where you are going with that.  In the simplest form it could be a 'tweaks guide to Joomla'.  It might be tough to do prepackaged with tweaks, but not impossible.  It would be a constant job to keep up with Joomla updates.



Everyone is a n00b at some point.  And yes, the technology trend in general is moving toward packaging things to make them simpler and easier to use for everyone.  Come up with new ideas on the decline, while repackaging something to make it more user friendly definitely is something that people do buy into.



I know that feeling all too well.  Good to have dreams, and I admire your tenacity.  Sounds like you may get there someday.

Quotes getting to long...    Alright, so, I am not the first one to approach these issues, but damn if I won't resolve them.  Good points Rogue4ngel - also, nice work...I looked up your site.  K, so, we could go back and forth over every item but I - I uploaded joomla into joomlauncher.com (just to be clear - you won't find ads like a billion google thingys.  That is not the point - i have sites that make money - I just want them to work the best and also give back to he community.  Oh yeah, my head is huge.  I barely fit through the door with it. 

Okay, so, to start - HOSTING IS DRIVING ME NUTS - so, created a catalog of hosting for the various price range that is tied to a forum to discuss and create a knowledge base for hosting plans.  Since, most hosting have a affiliate program -- hmmmm, all checks could be cut to joomla.org as a donation. 

Now, here is something just want to bring up --- Yes, I am going to use the MS WORD - oooohhh Awwwwwww he didn't.  Microsoft not only sells its programs, it offers for sale the hosting that support and customizes for their products - I know people dog them but ummmm - some how that actually seems smart.  (oh bring it on - come a screaming about MS and totally miss the point of what I am talking about because your a fanatical MS hater - also, I am bigger than most of you people - Just Kidding, so, MS Haters please refrain from stupidity).

So, what do you think?  - Yeah, I know I got to work out he small stuff, but over all?  If there is over 100 million plus Joomla websites out there (I made that figure up - but sounds good)  - why the heck does the community not realize its purchasing power?????

I understand the spirit of OS, but it is Open Source not Overly Stupid. (although we can all be accused of that at times - me especially) and I think OS should be just as creative in its support as it is in its programming.  Its like well if you feed the bums they will stay homeless.  I could be wrong...in my thinking.

But that is my first - goal to Joomlauncher -- Yes, I have alternative goals - I want to be able to have my sites up and running and people able to visit them with No - oh i have to trouble shoot this and search weeks looking or my hosting has their heads somewhere and site loads slow or drops.  (and don't tell me its about just prices, cause I spend a lot on hosting with several host companies) You know - is that too much to ask.  Also, I have some of the coolest WEBSITES in the hopper.

So, before I switch to another hosting plan - maybe I can organize this  and get the feed back to what is a good High End Joomla hosting plan and then I credit the referral to Joomla.org Foundation.  Then newbies can go to find hosting - either - low, medium or high.

Anyone want to help?  Minimal support involved...mostly feed back.

Please note one thing about your launching bundle, that you can only bundle GNU/GPL or GNU/GPL compatibly licensed materials together and distribute them as a whole. 

If you are looking for Joomla! friendly hosting there is already a list compiled here: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,6856.0.html

Hey William -

Your Joomla bundle is indeed a good idea; it's an idea that has been talked about for some time, too.  I've been working with Joomla (and mambo) for some time now and, only though experience the need for pre-packaged, ready-to-go Joomla installations was absolutely necessary for me to make effective use of my time developing for clients.  So kudos to you (a "noob") for seeing the need so early on

I've already started a project called "Jump Start Joomla" which is very similar to your "Joomlauncher" idea: pre-bundled Joomla packages. I currently only have one bundle that focuses on Joomla's general audience, but have "lots of ideas" for future ones that are more specific

Time for a little bragging...

Currently, I am not aware of anyone who are 1) offering "Joomla Bundles" (in the FULL sense that we are talking about... so RocketTheme and the like do not count) and 2) doing with with a sense of style and professionalism. I've seen a few packages, but they aren't done with the quality that I know the idea deserves.

I believe that the bundles I've started to put togther have some class and lots of potential... They're not just 3rd party extensions installed... but more like intigrated.  I have extensions that will enhance this "intigration" that I'm talking in the works.

You can find more about them at the Jump Start Joomla website (URL in signature).

So anyway, I would be interested in getting our ideas together and trying to make a REAL go the "bundle" idea. I believe it's an idea that will benifit Joomla Noobs and experienced users alike. It's an old idea that's over-due some action.

Sean

Sean -

I have looked at your package before and it is very impressive. It's apparent your knowledge of Joomla! with the fixing of the 1.0.12 module ItemID issues, etc. Good stuff.

I believe in packages - mainly with special interest communities like EduGeek - but I have two concerns about the approach you are using, and I share it with you just so that you can think about it - in case, you haven't already.

Concern #1 - installing 40+ extensions is not necessarily a good idea in terms of performance or security. I would venture to guess most of your end users are not de-installing unused extensions. Might at least warn them to remove what is not ultimately needed, if you don't already (and if you agree.)

Concern #2 - we need to start thinking seriously about making certain 3PDs are able to get paid, if requested, for their work. So, hopefully, we will start seeing developers working in groups and providing advanced support and documentation, etc. For those developers, it will be important not to pre-install their work -- at least without working with them on a price or arrangements.

For what's it's worth - just a couple of ideas. Your site is very impressive and what you have done is equally so.
Amy

Before I saw Sean's site - I was working on an idea to pre-package joomlas for everyone - so, it was exciting to find someone out there doing it...



I haven't got this quote thing down yet...but oh, well. 

1 - I had in mind was to create various packages...kind of find your match, but I wasn't just going with that --- I had find your Joomlauncher package and pick one that matches your hosting plan.  If your going to dream - dream big.

2 - Second - as an incentive -- was looking at ways to doll out bucks to the creators of the mods, components and plugins.  - why?  because then they can focus on just creating better stuff and working with one team for trouble shooting on their products...actually it is more detailed than that, but - I am hungry and losing focus - Hmmmm anyone gots some fries?  Just kidding. I was looking at streamlining.

On top of that - I want everyone to be able to just turn on there sites and have fun...not fight to make it work.  Plus, I want to teach people how to Make Money on there sites too.  --- You ask why?  Because I am a newbie and I am here to share and hopefully get my sites running the way I want them to with out the nightmares...I make money via the web...I got into Joomla to just make fun sites, and since I got mad money making skills on the web -- I thought perfect, but MAN talk about some headaches....

Dont some of the folks do this now, Like I know you can download virtuemart with joomla and the virtuemart already packaged.

Just a thought... many 3PDs of GPL/GNU extensions are creating and distributing them with the idea that providing downloads will increase traffic to their own websites for custom work.  While I do know the author's name is available in the backend, along with a link, that certainly doesn't generate the same traffic.

In the spirit of Joomla community, I would tread lightly and while you are not legally *bound* to ask permission to redistribute OS extensions, it might be a good idea lest you tick someone off that you need support from one day.

True that is what we are talking about, but what about other options - like if I down load virtue mart and rockettheme and they both do it, but I want both features...which one do I choose?? or better yet what if both were in one package and it matched my server set up...so no conflicts...hmmmm, wouldn't that be sweet???  (Note: not saying I am going to package RocketTheme and give them away, that is a commercial template company, but if I made it easy for GPL items to conviently packaged and Rocket them used those packages to add to their already great service...wooo woooo

I had 15 sites before joomla...and I made lots of money on them...so, when I switched to using Joomla (Which I have 35 Joomla sites now on top of my 15 other sites) I though wooo fun fun fun and easy - that is what everyone tells me -- well, it has been a nightmare...

Not that I am giving up on Joomla - no, quite the opposite...  What I want is ONE JOOMLA SITE OF MINE TO WORK...just one...  Look at this site... the one in the my signuture box....go check it out.  See if it will even load for you...probably not...and guess what...goooooood luck if you get that $70 a month (actual monthly hosting cost and that is just one of my hostings) site to open.

Oh, wait it is the hosting you say, but Ummm duh that is part of Joomla - even Microsoft provides hosting environments for its software.  But if your a newbie -- all you see is - OOh joomla comes with this hosting, they support it...and you buy it and set it up to have no one see it...good luck and I own the site....

So, as person who cares about results...I am think that I will work at this for future Newbies and NOOBs like me who stumble across Joomla and want our sites too work like ummm, Joomla.org does.