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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:40 pm 
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Hello My name is TJ, and I'm back once again to the Joomla! forum  :D (you couldn't get rid of me :laugh:).
I am now doing the task to do a tri-fold brochure answering the following:
Quote:
Create a fun and helpful definition of what Free Software is, including
Freedoms 0, 1, 2, and 4. Explain what the advantages are to end users over
proprietary software. Share a list of popular free / open source software,
including Joomla!. Share helpful resources for additional reading.

I don't see a freedom 4 on any of the sources provided for information, but I see a 3; is that what was meant by 4? This task has a pretty well laid out guideline for what is wanted so I will try to have a content document up by tomorrow evening. Thanks Everyone! :)

Google Task[me=AmyStephen]modified title and added Google task link[/me]


Last edited by AmyStephen on Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:47 pm 
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Yes, TJ, you are right ;)

Just a comment: there are really interesting transcripts of Mr. Stallman on the FSF website. It worth the reading.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:36 am 
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Here is my proposed content take a look at it and let me know what you think. I am interested in reading those transcripts but i cant find them. Also any editing that anyone could do would be apreciatd. Thaknks i will wait for some feedback then start on my first brochure draft.  :)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:42 am 
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LOVE IT, tj!  8)

Maybe add Linux to the examples of free software?

Honestly, you hit the points I wanted this piece to hit.

Great work!
Amy :)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:30 pm 
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http://www.fsf.org/events/past-rms-speeches.html
http://www.fsf.org/resources/what-is-fs
http://www.fsf.org/resources/testimonials

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html
http://www.gnu.org/links/

My bad, I use to point things without a link, and a link is worth a thousand pics...

Your draft is OK but, IMO, there are some key points that should be included. You will get them specially in the Philosophy section ;)

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Last edited by ibnhafsun on Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:00 pm 
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If you do include Linux, make sure you call it "GNU/Linux".  rms says that it "preserves the freedom".

Quote:
weather

-Do you mean "whether"

Also, you should add Apache to the list of Free Software, and mention that it is used on X% of websites (if you can find that statistic)
Another topic you may want to consider adding is the confusion between the terms "free software" and "open source", including how they are the same and how they are different, and why to use one over the other.

Looks like a great outline!

P.S.-This is a great video to watch if you get the chance.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4188526128

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:09 pm 
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TJ, I would spend some time reading, may be using paper and pencil (I am too old, may be you might want to use Google's notebook, lol).

Take notes, some key points will be very easy to find. Don't think just about software, this game isn't about technical specs and we don't mind about it because it is just a question of time to get there (ie. photoshop vs the gimp).

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Last edited by ibnhafsun on Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:16 pm 
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tj -

I wanted to tell you how pleased I am with your approach. You are someone who does a great job of listening and adapting. With your last tri-fold, you presented it for the first time in nearly complete form - words and formatting. Then, we asked you to drop back to the beginning and revisit content. This ended up causing you rework. But, you were not discouraged - you did not display "attitude" - you did not act defensive - you just kept improving your work, over and over, and taking each step in sequence, until it was done.

I am so impressed with that attitude - it will take you a long ways in life.

When you took this next task - another tri-fold - I was impressed when you started with message - and left formatting for later. You are learning and you are adapting so that your work is more useful to the community.

I'd really like you to work closely with Rafa (ibnhafsun) on this piece. He is very knowledgeable about free software. I learn from him always. We need to better educate our community on what free software is and what it is not and why this matters. I know the two of you will work together very well.

And, of course, as before, with everyone else who is kind enough to share their impressions and ideas - please do - it is so very helpful. Max - as usual - you rock. You do a lot for each of these entries, and therefore, for our community.

Thanks!
Amy :)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:26 pm 
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Great feedback, and will do! about my incorrect spelling of "whether" i did mean that, i must  of accidentally chosen weather in spellcheck :D thanks for pointing that out. I will read it more closely next time after i run spellcheck. I will try to have a new content page up by tomorrow or earlier if i get the time. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:54 am 
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I'm doing some more research on the new links provided and have a question, is this to be informative or persuasive? ??? Am i to be persuading others to use free software or just informing them on what free software is and what it does? Thanks i will definitely have the new info up by tomorrow.  :)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:00 am 
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I had more free time than i thought. While i did not have enough time to watch the video provided, i did try to read over all the links to the different essays. I hope i hit all the points that you wanted to see in this brochure and i hope i did not take a step backwards. Let me know what you think! ;D I get off for winter break tomorrow so i will have more time to make changes over the next few days so keep telling me what you want fixed (hopefully no more embarrassing spell check errors  :laugh:). Thanks for the continued support! :)

ps: ( i don't know how to use google notebooks i still use a pen and paper, your not that old)


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Last edited by tj.ferrell on Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:13 am 
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Just a suggestion: it should be, IMO, informative, persuasive and... funny!

Free Software philosophy is usually hard to explain. It implies morals, ethics, intentions...

I miss the copyleft concept (what, why...).

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Last edited by ibnhafsun on Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:33 pm 
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Ok will do, i take the
ibnhafsun wrote:
I miss the copyleft concept (what, why...).

to mean that i need to add some about copyleft, and i will try my hardest to make it funny, informative and persuasive. I will have a new content page up tonight. :P


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:45 pm 
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Quote:
i will try my hardest to make it funny

The history of the word "copyleft" is funny, in addition to the word itself.  rms' biography, "Free as in Freedom", gives us this paragraph about Copyleft.
Quote:
About the time Stallman was pondering the ethical, political, and legal issues associated with free software, a California hacker named Don Hopkins mailed him a manual for the 68000 microprocessor. Hopkins, a Unix hacker and fellow science-fiction buff, had borrowed the manual from Stallman a while earlier. As a display of gratitude, Hopkins decorated the return envelope with a number of stickers obtained at a local science-fiction convention. One sticker in particular caught Stallman's eye. It read, "Copyleft (L), All Rights Reversed." Following the release of the first version of GPL, Stallman paid tribute to the sticker, nicknaming the free software license "Copyleft." Over time, the nickname and its shorthand symbol, a backwards "C," would become an official Free Software Foundation synonym for the GPL.


This may or may not help, but I though it might be useful to you.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:41 am 
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here is my first attempt i call it the hitchhikers guide to free software.  :laugh: It is my style of humor but i tried to keep it at a minimum to keep content and persuasion the biggest concepts. I am getting worried about the length for my last brochure i had one page and i had too much in  some areas. Let me know what you think trombonechamp you rock, you are so helpful, i got your post right before i typed this so i already had the edits done but if i need to make more changes i will try to implement that little bit on copyleft, it is funny! ;D Thanks everyone for your continued support! :)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:40 pm 
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Oooooh!  Red flag!
Quote:
Free software is like communism.

From rms:
Quote:
Free software does not have much resemblance to Communism. Communism as we saw it was a dictatorship where central planning would tell everybody what to do. This is not like the free software community where everybody just decides what to do and does it. You couldn’t get two things more opposite.  You consistently see power hungry bastards call us communists. What would lead them to say something so absurd as that? They’re setting up a system that resembles Communism. It’s a dictatorship. Someone who uses Windows is under control of Microsoft, they impose their decisions from the top down. Users have no choice. That’s a lot like the Stalinist system, the command economy. They don’t respect private property at all. Microsoft and many other companies say that you can’t own a copy of their software. They believe in private property only as long as all of it belongs to them. That’s how they respect private property.

Yeah... Moving right along


When describing the four freedoms, one thing you may want to do is use the same analogy.  For example, using software that would clean out the empty space between your teeth from freedom 0.  For freedom 1, you could put something along the lines of being able to modify it to give you a teeth whitening as well, freedom 2 is to let your friend clean their empty space between their teeth, etc.

Quote:
They wish for you to mindlessly buy there software for outrageous prices and then give them your freedom willingly.

You should probably get rid of the "willingly".  "Average" people don't know anything about software freedom.

Quote:
No more forking over hundreds of dollars for the newest graphical user interface on your operating system that they call by some Spanish name or cat.

GNU/Linux has the most advanced graphical user interface on the planet, Compiz-Fusion.  It makes Vista look like it goes with that $4,000 computer you bought in '94. (yet for some reason it requires a $4,000 graphics card that goes in your $8,000 computer you bought last week. Great job M$)

Quote:
No more giving in because you do not have the time to learn new software.

You make it sound like it is a lot of work to learn free software alternatives.  Openoffice, Joomla!, PCLOS, etc. have proven that wrong. (Just pretend like blender doesn't exist...  :laugh:)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:58 pm 
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You are doing a nice work, TJ ;)

You tried to find analogies. That's the best way to explain it, IMO. However, if you do it that way someone could get it wrong (we don´t want them to get pissed off, we want them laughing and thinking). In some countries Nazi, fascist or communist are heavy words and should be used careful.

An example about the freedoms kinds of freedom (edited) (one that RMS uses to expose first on his talks) is cooking too.
http://fsfe.org/en/fellows/ciaran/ciara ... ke-cooking

Why is it a good example?
It doesn't hurt! Even Ferran Adria shares his recipes!

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Last edited by ibnhafsun on Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:09 pm 
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I was worried about that.  I will work on finding different analogies. I will have a new content page up by this afternoon. ;D


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:18 pm 
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Ok i like the cooking analogy, i like cooking  :D so because i could not think of a better analogy i implemented this throughout the whole thing. Let me know what you think and if anyone has any ideas for some better analogy's please let me know. ;D


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:16 pm 
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I've found the idea funny (but take in mind that I am Spaniard and my sense of humour is.. a bit special) and sweet.

It should work. This is a trifold brochure so you'll need some spice to add to your sweet cakes ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:24 pm 
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I like the cake analogy.  It makes it much easier to follow with only one analogy.  Have you heard the book/translator analogy?  It is mostly used to refer to the DMCA/DRM, but could be tweaked to apply to FOSS/Proprietary software as well.  Basically, you buy a book, but it is in a language that nobody but the publishing company speaks.  If you want to read it, you have to hire one of their translators.  Then, the publishing company holds onto your book for you to make sure you don't give it away to anyone else or teach yourself to read that language.  Personally, I like your cake analogy better, but I just thought I would throw this out there.

Quote:
They don't care what you do with it as long as you agree to continue to share it with others.

You may or may not want to put this in there.  Under the GPL this is true, but remember that BSD licensed programs are free software too.  You don't have to promise to share that with other people.

Quote:
Its easy and well worth it, it works better and you no longer have to remember where your CD is with the billion digit code that you are supposed to have when you install it.

This sentence jumps straight from cakes back to software, which makes it seem a little choppy.  You may want to move it or add something there to ease the transition.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:40 pm 
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i am not quit sure what is meant by this statement  ???
ibnhafsun wrote:
This is a trifold brochure so you'll need some spice to add to your sweet cakes ;)

i take it to mean either that you want me to start on the actual brochure, or you want me to add some more enjoyable content.


i fixed those problems you pointed out trombonechamp and as always THANK YOU! i glanced right over them in my read over. Here is the new content, i only made changes to that one paragraph. :pop


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:49 am 
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You three are really doing some great teamwork in here!

Now, for some reason, I am hungry for cake. Not just any cake, either, something that I can adapt for my own needs and share with my family for our holiday meal. If it's really good, someone might ask for my recipe. I am happy to share. It's good that I will not require an attorney to do so!

Keep up the good work!
Amy :)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:53 am 
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Hello everyone, sorry i have not replied in a while i have been baking massive amounts of cookies for friends and neighbors. Happy Holidays! I will try to have a draft of the brochure up by tomorrow, thanks.  ;D


Last edited by tj.ferrell on Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:56 pm 
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Hello everyone. Here is my first brochure draft, i had to re-edit almost everything so it would fit so let me know if there is anything i need to have but accidentally cut out. I combined the free software definition and the open source clarification, shortened the free software list, and everything else. I will be unavailable tomorrow due to Christmas, but i might could get another draft up tonight if i get replies soon. Once again Happy Holidays.  ;D

ps. i hope the open office draw format is still ok


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:21 am 
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-I know the brochure is supposed to be fun, but your font is hard to read.  You should stick to Halvetica.
-In each of the freedoms, you say, "Freedom X is, The freedom to...".  This would be more readable if it were said as, "Freedom X: The freedom to...".
-Alot is not a word.  "A lot" is.
Quote:
Free
software will never do this to
you, no legal battles for
copying the program, no
selling your rights, it's alot
like a friend giving you a
cake recipe so you can make it
and enjoy it with your family
latter.

This is a run on.  Change it to:
Quote:
Free
software will never do this to
you. There are no legal battles for
copying the program and no
selling your rights. It's a lot
like a friend giving you a
cake recipe so you can make it
and enjoy it with your family
later.

-Make sure you decide on what words to capitalize in the titles of the panels.

-Change the last paragraph in "Copyleft" to:
Quote:
Today many major
companies use the GPL license,
including IBM
and Novell.


Quote:
Some good free software:
●Joomla! : an content
management system.
●GNU/Linux : a free
operating system.
●OpenOffice.org : a complete
office suit.

Change to:
Quote:
Some quality free software:
●Joomla! : a content
management system.
●GNU/Linux : a free
operating system.
●OpenOffice.org : a complete
office suite.


I like the analogy, but the only thing that sounds absurd in it is the fact that if you ask for the recipe, you get sued.  It may be hard for people to relate to.  Have you "hurd" (Hey, I'm not an rms at puns!!!) the one about the car?  You "purchase" the car from the dealer, but the hood is locked shut and the tires are locked on.  The dealer is the only one with the key.  To make sure you didn't break the lock, you are required to check in with the dealer every 3 months.  If you miss the appointment, your car will stop running.  It is also against the law to give other people rides in your car.  There is a camera in the car as well so the dealer can see if you give other people rides.
Wow, that would be hard to explain in a panel!  Maybe you should stick to the cake.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:21 am 
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Thank you so much for your input trombonechamp! please ignore any spelling issues in this post, i am doing it on my pocket pc (even built in spell check doesn't work in ie mobile, i haven't found a good alternative yet). :o I don't know what my day tomorrow will be like so i can not garentee a new edit to be up by tomorrow but i will try my hardest. i can definently tell you that i will have a new draft up by Thursday evening. i would still love to hear anyone else's input. :laugh: I hope everyone had a merry Christmas, ant thanks again!


Last edited by tj.ferrell on Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:35 pm 
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http://www.mozilla.org/projects/minimo/
I think it has spell check like FF, could be wrong

Even better:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_z ... _ziff44392

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:53 pm 
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Thank you  trombonechamp for the suggestions, minimo took over five minutes to load on my ppc and i can't wait that long to lode a ppc app, and i have some software i need which keeps me too windows mobile. However the software is moving over to android and so i am planing to switch over if i can.

I fixed the problems with the first draft, changed fonts (all except the heading fonts so let me know if you still think there a problem), and changed everything else. I decided to stick to the cake analogy but tried to change it so it makes more sense. Thank's everyone!  ;D


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:10 am 
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it has been 24 hours since i uploaded my last draft so since i have heard no feedback i would like to submit this draft for a final review. Thanks for all the help everyone!


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