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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:58 pm 
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I need to have menu items for multiple categories of web links. However, with SEF URLs turned on, it seems to mess up the URLs and breadcrumbs although it does get you to the right page of web links. When there is only one menu item that goes to a web link category, things are fine, but when I add the second one to the next category, it gets all messed up. The id number at the end of the SEF URL is correct but the URL makes it appear that it is a different category.

For example, my first menu item,"State & Governance Resources," has two parents, "Programs" and "State & Governance." When it's the only menu item linking to a web link category, I get ?index/programs/state-a-governance/state-a-governance-resources/69. This is correct.

When I add the second menu item, "Democracy & Human Rights Resources," with two parents, "Programs" and "Democracy & Human Rights," the first URL becomes ?index/programs/democracy-a-human-rights/democracy-a-human-rights/69 and the second URL becomes ?index/programs/state-a-governance/state-a-governance-resources/70. The links are correct but the URLs and breadcrumbs aren't.

When I add the third link, "International Relations Resources," with the parents "Programs" and "International Relations," the first two URLs remain as they did after the second menu item was added and this one becomes ?index/programs/state-a-governance/state-a-governance-resources/71.

When the menu items are for things other than web link categories, so this does seem to point to the web links as being the problem. That or how SEF URLs handle web links?

Edit: If this makes a difference, I notice that when SEF URLs are off, the ItemID of the menu item is appended to the URL but it's not when SEF URLs are on. Could this be part of the problem?

I am completely flumoxed.

Unfortunately I don't have a test site publicly available for now but I'll post it when I do.

I'm using Joomla 1.5.3 with xampp and SEF URLs turned on (mod_rewrite is off). The Joomla core SEF is the only one I'm using. I'm using extended menu to power the drop-down menus but the same problem occurs whether the menu items have parents or not.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:25 am 
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Problem Description:
An update with server details:

I think I\'ve noticed a pattern. I added some more menu items to different web link categories elsewhere in the menu and discovered that:

All but the second-most-recent menu items to web link categories include the second-most recent menu item\'s path (i.e. correct parents in the SEF URL for the second-most-recent menu item).

The second-most-recent menu item to a web link category includes the most recent menu item\'s path.

This is an interesting pattern but leaves me just as confused as before.


Diagnostic Information
Joomla! Version: Joomla! 1.5.3 Production/Stable [ Vahi ] 22-April-2008 22:00 GMT
configuration.php: Writable (Mode: 777 ) | RG_EMULATION: N/A
Architecture/Platform: Linux 2.2.26-hetz-2G-nonSMP ( i686) | Web Server: Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a mod_auth_pam/1.0a PHP/4.3.11 PHP/3.0.18 mod_ssl/2.8.10 OpenSSL/0.9.6g mod_perl/1.27 mod_jk/1.1.0 FrontPage/5.0.2.2510 ( cpp.org.za.dedi279.your-server.de ) | PHP Version: 4.3.11
PHP Requirements: register_globals: Enabled | magic_quotes_gpc: Enabled | safe_mode: Disabled | MySQL Support: Yes | XML Support: Yes | zlib Support: Yes
mbstring Support (1.5): No | iconv Support (1.5): No | save.session_path: Writable | Max.Execution Time: 30 seconds | File Uploads: Enabled
MySQL Version: 4.1.13-standard ( cpp.org.za.dedi279.your-server.de via TCP/IP )

Extended Information:
SEF: Enabled (without ReWrite) | FTP Layer: Disabled | htaccess: Not Implemented
PHP/suExec: User and Web Server accounts are not the same. (PHP/suExec probably not installed)
PHP Environment: API: apache | MySQLi: No | Max. Memory: 20M | Max. Upload Size: 5242880 | Max. Post Size: 8M | Max. Input Time: -1 | Zend Version: 1.3.0
Disabled Functions:
MySQL Client: 3.23.58 ( latin1 )


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:44 pm 
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I can confirm this exact same problem with Joomla 1.5.5

Categories:
1. Wineries
2. Publications

My weblinks in publications have a URL path of /wineries/...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:34 am 
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I can confirm the same problem Joomla 1.5.5 and SEF on, is this bug reported?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:41 am 
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Stevetm wrote:
I can confirm the same problem Joomla 1.5.5 and SEF on, is this bug reported?


Stevetm, no, I haven't reported this as a bug.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:35 pm 
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I can confirm that we get the same thing in 1.5.5 - it really messes up the URL/Breadcrumb display of Contacts when called from category listings that are linked to a second submenu.

Example of contact when linked from a sub category of "office-design"
http://www.oursite.com/office-design/co ... in-douglas

Example of contact when linked form subcategory of "communications"
http://www.oursite.com/office-design/co ... on-rylance

For some reason the first category is repeated in the URL of the second.
The second URL *should* be:
http://www.oursite.com/communications/c ... on-rylance

Switching SEF off cures the issue - but you do get those ugly URLs!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:44 pm 
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I solved it buy buying SEF advance from sakic.net and now it works perfect..hopfully this will be fixed in the next update


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:46 pm 
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Stevetm, do you know what about the extension you bought fixed the problem?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:22 pm 
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Stevetm wrote:
I can confirm the same problem Joomla 1.5.5 and SEF on, is this bug reported?


Yes.
http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/joomla ... m_id=12150

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:36 pm 
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I just installed SEF Advance 2008 (www.sakic.net) and the problem with web links and multiple categories was gone, this SEF component gives u a lot more options as well...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:20 am 
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I think what you're describing is this.

0) [pre-step] Install the sample data that comes with Joomla;
1) Create two menu links to two different categories of links;
2) Click the first link, URL is correct ( eg http://joomla-dev/joomla-links.html ) ;
3) Now click the other link from the menu, URL is also correct ( eg http://joomla-dev/resources-links.html );
4) Finally, from the list of links to other categories ( not the menu ), click the link to another category and the URL will not appear to be correct ( eg http://joomla-dev/resources-links/2-joo ... links.html ).

Is this what you are describing?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:38 am 
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tcp wrote:
I think what you're describing is this.

0) [pre-step] Install the sample data that comes with Joomla;
1) Create two menu links to two different categories of links;
2) Click the first link, URL is correct ( eg http://joomla-dev/joomla-links.html ) ;
3) Now click the other link from the menu, URL is also correct ( eg http://joomla-dev/resources-links.html );
4) Finally, from the list of links to other categories ( not the menu ), click the link to another category and the URL will not appear to be correct ( eg http://joomla-dev/resources-links/2-joo ... links.html ).

Is this what you are describing?


Sounds about right. It also breaks for web link categories too. Look at this page:

http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/wineries/6.html

Problem? It's in category "Published Stories". Also the link on this page is also in the same category...

http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/wineries/ ... fails.html

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:29 am 
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Sorry, but I can't replicate this. On my system this all works flawlessly. Are you using Joomla 1.5.6?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:37 pm 
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Hackwar wrote:
Sorry, but I can't replicate this. On my system this all works flawlessly. Are you using Joomla 1.5.6?


Just upgraded 1.5.5 to 1.5.6 and no change. You can see it for yourself in the links I posted above.

Do you have more than 1 web link category? Why don't you create two web link categories, put at least 2 links in each one, and send me the URLs from your site?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:21 pm 
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I've got 3 categories, in each categorie at least 2 links. I have a weblink menu item to the category overview and I have two to categories and all these create correct URLs. I still can't replicate this. What PHP and MySQL version are you using? Are you using any third party URL extensions? Are you using template overrides?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:31 pm 
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Hackwar wrote:
I've got 3 categories, in each categorie at least 2 links. I have a weblink menu item to the category overview and I have two to categories and all these create correct URLs. I still can't replicate this. What PHP and MySQL version are you using? Are you using any third party URL extensions? Are you using template overrides?


So post your category names and the URLs where we can see this proper behavior...

Latest PHP, MySQL version couldn't possibly matter.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:49 am 
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I was walking through some older Tracker Items and found this thread created at my request by Astrid. After reading kenmcd's comment, I looked at this thread and I believe Ken is right, these two issues are related.

I was able to follow tcp's instructions, above, to get the incorrect URLs.

This is another example of User Generated Duplicate Content and how difficult that condition makes it for Joomla! to work correctly.

tcp's example uses sample content and these menu items:
1) category list layouts for the "other resources" category;
2) category list layout for the "Joomla Links" category;
3) Web Link Category List Layout for all the categories.

The problem tcp shows is that the "Web Link Category List Layout" menu item is using the menu item alias for #1

http://localhost/joomla_bugsquad/resour ... links.html

And, it should be showing this URL:

http://localhost/joomla_bugsquad/web-li ... links.html

From an SEO standpoint, the better approach to offering multiple menu items leading to the same content is to avoid creating User Generated Duplicate Content. In fact, those who are serious about SEO would never intentionally sabotage their sites by using these types of approaches.

Here's a better practice:

1. Create the "Web Link Category List Layout" menu type.
2. Use the URL for the "other resources" category to create Menu Item using the External Link menu type.
3. Use the URL for the "Joomla Links" category to create Menu Item using the External Link menu type.

Using that approach provides three important benefits:
1. Avoid the SEO hit for creating duplicate content.
2. Avoid any potential problems with Joomla! when it struggles with duplicate content.
3. You can fix your problem right now - without developers writing any code.

I closed 12150 as a duplicate report. If you want to follow along on this Tracker Item, use item 11878 which was reported well over a month ago.

I believe Hannes continues to make improvements on URLs for non-content components. I am guessing he will try to wrestle with this problem, too. Right now, he's on a well deserved break. For those who want to fix their problems *now* - try the above hints. If you really, really must have User Generated Duplicate Content, then you'll have to wait until the developers come up with a fix.

Don't get to stirred up about the SEO impact your site is having due to this error. The duplicate content you created is likely a much bigger impact in terms of SEO - and - I seriously doubt this has ever worked. Duplicate content always causes trouble - and I personally always recommend designing your sites in such a way to avoid it completely.

Amy

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:32 am 
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AmyStephen wrote:
This is another example of User Generated Duplicate Content and how difficult that condition makes it for Joomla! to work correctly.
...
From an SEO standpoint, the better approach to offering multiple menu items leading to the same content is to avoid creating User Generated Duplicate Content. In fact, those who are serious about SEO would never intentionally sabotage their sites by using these types of approaches.


What are you talking about? I'm sorry, but you are making no sense here.

I made a category for web links. I created a menu item pointing to the category. Nothing is simpler.

If there is something wrong with doing it the obvious and simple way, then (a) you need to document it but (b) you should fix it. Because people will do it the obvious and simple way. And I've been doing web development since 1993, and I know pretty much every system out there, and what you are saying makes no sense to me.

Quote:
I closed 12150 as a duplicate report. If you want to follow along on this Tracker Item, use item 11878 which was reported well over a month ago.


There is nothing in that report which indicates it is a duplicate of this report. The text describes a completely different problem.

Quote:
I believe Hannes continues to make improvements on URLs for non-content components. I am guessing he will try to wrestle with this problem, too. Right now, he's on a well deserved break. For those who want to fix their problems *now* - try the above hints. If you really, really must have User Generated Duplicate Content, then you'll have to wait until the developers come up with a fix.


You really are coming across as incredibly rude. As mentioned above, I know more about web development (and backend systems in particular) than most people, and I haven't the foggiest idea what you are talking about. There is no duplicate content here in any sense that I can understand. If you want to argue that Wineries == Writing then you need to explain to me how this is duplicate.

Quote:
Don't get to stirred up about the SEO impact your site is having due to this error. The duplicate content you created is likely a much bigger impact in terms of SEO - and - I seriously doubt this has ever worked. Duplicate content always causes trouble - and I personally always recommend designing your sites in such a way to avoid it completely


Avoid what? You haven't explained yourself in even the slightest sense. Winers != Writing. There is no duplicate content in any sense that a mere mortal can understand.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:39 am 
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AmyStephen wrote:
This is another example of User Generated Duplicate Content and how difficult that condition makes it for Joomla! to work correctly.


Just FYI, on rereading it occurs to me that you are considering this problem only in context of the sample Joomla content.

www.bitchandwine.net was installed without the sample content. I built it from scratch, by hand. And it demonstrates the problem.

So no, if you think this is related to duplicating content in the Joomla samples -- it isn't. This problem exists independantly.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:26 pm 
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FYI, I'd also like to point out the obvious -- that dealing with duplicate content by creating URLs that indicate the wrong category isn't the appropriate fallback behavior.

So even if this was related to duplicate content (it isn't), the response would be entirely orthagonal to the problem.

And blaming the user, as Amy has done above, makes even less sense. I'm actually quite blown away that Amy has the balls to come in here and Blame The User for what is clearly a bug in Joomla.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:33 pm 
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Oh, calm down, Jo. Just trying to explain to you what I see happening. Maybe I'm wrong - it's happened before. Your Bitch and Wine site is small. How about by sharing the following for each Menu Item you have on the Web site:

1. Visible name we see on the site (ex. Wine Blog, All Entries, Wineries, etc.).

2. What Menu Type did you use to create the Menu Item? (ex. Weblink Category List)

3. What content did you select, if any, with your Menu Item? (ex. Wineries category).

4. What URL you would expect?

5. What URL Joomla! provided?

That will help us get started helping you. 8)
Amy

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:43 pm 
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rootwiley -

If you are still having trouble, feel free to email AmyStephen at gmail dot com or PM me details of how I can look at your Web site. I'm going to be busy today and tomorrow - but I might be able to find time to look at it briefly - at least on Sunday.

I'm hoping you are upgraded to Joomla! 1.5.6 - and it would be good to make the jump to PHP 5.2+ As you probably know, as of 8/8/8 - PHP 4 will not even have security updates - so - it is good to get off of that platform, if possible.

Obviously, there are problems in Joomla! with the Web links. But, we might be able to figure out a way to avoid those problems - at least until the code changes have been made. It will be important to identify the duplicate content and design around it. Once that's out of the way, these problems clear.

Let me know if I can help with that. I'm more than happy to do so.
Amy :)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:19 pm 
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AmyStephen wrote:
Oh, calm down, Jo. Just trying to explain to you what I see happening. Maybe I'm wrong - it's happened before. Your Bitch and Wine site is small. How about by sharing the following for each Menu Item you have on the Web site:

1. Visible name we see on the site (ex. Wine Blog, All Entries, Wineries, etc.).
2. What Menu Type did you use to create the Menu Item? (ex. Weblink Category List)
3. What content did you select, if any, with your Menu Item? (ex. Wineries category).


The following three aren't relevant to the problem:
Home - Articles -> Front Page
Wine Blog - newsfeed referencing RSS feed
Photo Gallery - external URL

Only this one is relevant:
Wineries - Web Links, Category = "Wineries"

This one isn't relevant,
Writing - Articles -> Article Layout
http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/writing.html
but in the article, I have a link of type "Web Links, Category" to the Writing Category

4. What URL you would expect?
http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/writing/6.html

5. What URL Joomla! provided?
http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/wineries/6.html

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:46 pm 
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Jo -

Please, don't filter for me. Let me do that. My questions might not seem relevant, but I'm heading a certain path - and I've done this a time or two before. We'll get there more quickly if you just answer.

OK, you answered the questions for one URL - one you said is not relevant.

How about at least answering the questions for the URL you believe is relevant?

Quote:
Only this one is relevant:
Wineries - Web Links, Category = "Wineries"


Then, help me understand your first post in this thread. What happened to the Publications category? That's the problem earlier reported. Is it gone now? And, if it's gone, are you still having a problem?

jorhett wrote:
I can confirm this exact same problem with Joomla 1.5.5

Categories:
1. Wineries
2. Publications

My weblinks in publications have a URL path of /wineries/...


One last thing, Jo, if you don't have 1.5.6 upgraded - do it immediately. It is a serious security problem.

Thanks,
Amy :)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:15 pm 
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AmyStephen wrote:
Please, don't filter for me. Let me do that. My questions might not seem relevant, but I'm heading a certain path - and I've done this a time or two before. We'll get there more quickly if you just answer.


I wasn't filtering. I was just observing which ones did not display the problem.

Quote:
OK, you answered the questions for one URL - one you said is not relevant.
How about at least answering the questions for the URL you believe is relevant?


I'm not sure what you are querying here. I explained in detail the URL which does work, and identified the category which displays fine, but its name is being used incorrectly in the other category. And I did answer every question you asked.

Quote:
Then, help me understand your first post in this thread. What happened to the Publications category? That's the problem earlier reported. Is it gone now? And, if it's gone, are you still having a problem?


Sorry, I said Writing and I meant Publications. And yes, the problem still displays. The URLs are quoted above, you can see them for yourself.

Quote:
One last thing, Jo, if you don't have 1.5.6 upgraded - do it immediately. It is a serious security problem.


Upgraded to 1.5.6 a few days ago.

FWIW, most of the sites getting hacked could be prevented if Joomla had a security announcements mailing list. While you personally have an interest in reading Joomla's website every day, most people don't. Prior to starting to upgrade to 1.5 I probably didn't visit the site for more than a year. It doesn't appear that anything at all is being done to get the word out, and I've already had to fix a half dozen hacked sites this week. (not my own, thankfully)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:27 pm 
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rootwiley -

Thanks for the PM - I'll be in touch, again, later this weekend.

Jo -

When you are able to invest the time needed to answer questions 1 thru 5 on any Web link URLs you have, I'll try to find time to volunteer to help you, as well. We can go no further without those responses. Hope that makes sense!

Kind regards,
Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:19 pm 
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AmyStephen wrote:
When you are able to invest the time needed to answer questions 1 thru 5 on any Web link URLs you have, I'll try to find time to volunteer to help you, as well. We can go no further without those responses. Hope that makes sense!


No, it doesn't since I have already answered questions 1-5 for the web link urls. Look right above this.

Here's the very same answers again. I'll lay it out differently so that you can understand.

Web Link #1 (which does not display the problem

1. Visible name we see on the site (ex. Wine Blog, All Entries, Wineries, etc.).

Wineries

2. What Menu Type did you use to create the Menu Item?

Weblink Category List

3. What content did you select, if any, with your Menu Item?

Wineries category

4. What URL you would expect?
http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/wineries.html

5. What URL Joomla! provided?
http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/wineries.html

=====

This is the one which displays the problem:

1. Visible name we see on the site

Published Stories

2. What Menu Type did you use to create the Menu Item?

This isn't a menu item, it's a link within the page http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/writing.html
The link is of type "Web Links, Category" to the Writing Category

3. What content did you select, if any, with your Menu Item?

Publications category

4. What URL you would expect?
http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/publications.html

5. What URL Joomla! provided?
http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/wineries/6.html


Is that clear enough?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:19 pm 
Joomla! Champion
Joomla! Champion

Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:35 pm
Posts: 7056
Location: Nebraska
jorhett wrote:

Published Stories

2. What Menu Type did you use to create the Menu Item?

This isn't a menu item, it's a link within the page http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/writing.html
The link is of type "Web Links, Category" to the Writing Category

3. What content did you select, if any, with your Menu Item?

Publications category

4. What URL you would expect?
http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/publications.html

5. What URL Joomla! provided?
http://www.bitchandwine.net/j/wineries/6.html


Jo -

You will not get the publications.html without creating the Menu Item. If you look at the menu item for the Wineries URL, you will see it's the alias value that you placed into the Menu Item that created that URL.

So, try that and then your direct link in the article should work.

Thanks!
Amy :)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:20 pm 
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Joomla! Apprentice

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:48 pm
Posts: 42
Location: San Francisco, CA
AmyStephen wrote:
jorhett wrote:
You will not get the publications.html without creating the Menu Item. If you look at the menu item for the Wineries URL, you will see it's the alias value that you placed into the Menu Item that created that URL.

So, try that and then your direct link in the article should work.


Amy, it's not clear that you are reading what I am writing. The direct link works fine. The entire site works fine.

The problem, as reported above, is that the SEF translation of that category indicates the inproper category.

The alias for this weblinks category is "published". The name of the weblinks category is Published. Either name would be fine. "wineries/6.html" is not a relevant path for an item not related to wine and not within the Wineries categories.

And before you jump in with another random assertion, I'd like you re-read what I have said starting at the top. And consider that my day job is building complex e-commerce applications in C and Perl, with random amounts of C++, PHP and Ruby at times. I know how browsers work, I've even submitted patches to Joomla in the past for various broken things. I'm not some random person who doesn't know how to make a link work. Please start with this understanding when you next reply.

And yes, I could probably figure this out and submit a patch. I took a quick peak, and the SEF code is deeply referential to the core routines and not easy to read standalone. I don't have the time right now to learn the internals well, so I posted this report in hopes that someone who does know the code well could fix the bug.

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Jo Rhett
geek, rambler, racer


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:35 pm
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Location: Nebraska
Good. You sound very bright. I look forward to your patch.

Too bad this isn't a bug.

Amy :)

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http://www.alltogetherasawhole.org/


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