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I read the FAQ on this topic (http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,5556.0.html) and several other threads as well, and thought I had it all figured out; however, now I've run into a problem I don't know how to fix.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Background

Because our livesite is back at our old host, we are working on the new server from its IP address 216.194.115.14.  Occasionally it tries to redirect to the domain name, which is pointed at the old server, but we get around it by using the IP again.  Once we're ready to go live with Joomla! we'll repoint the DNS.

The test installation on 216.194.115.14 is in public_html/joomla/ .  I want to move it to public_html/ .

I know that Joomla! uses the special Apache ownership nobody.nobody, but when I access our VPS using ftp or ssh, I log in as thetown.thetown.  To get around this problem, I installed Joomla Xplorer to use for server file management within Joomla!  and that's worked well up until now.

My intention was to copy all my files from the subdirectory where they were installed to the parent directory where I want them to be, then log into Joomla Xplorer in the old location (still there) and make the changes to configuration.php that way.

But it hasn't worked. 


What I did:

Using ssh (as thetown.thetown) I copied all the files from public_html/joomla/  to public_html/ .  (Including .htaccess -- was that a mistake?)

Naturally, they all came in as owned by thetown.thetown.  Because I can't change that to nobody.nobody, I gave a detailed list to my webhost who changed them for me.  I've checked and they're all owned by nobody.nobody now.  Permissions seem to be 755 for the directories, and 644 for the top level files like the index.php and configuration.php.

I went to log in to the back end of the installation still in public_html/joomla/ thinking that I should still be able to access that since it hasn't changed, but suddenly I get a forbidden message:



The same error comes up if you try to access the front end, either in the public_html/oomla/ subdirectory, or in public_html/.

Prior to asking the webhost to change the ownership of the copied files, I could still log in to the subdirectory site.  Since they haven't changed that, I can't understand why I can't access it now.

Where I'm at now

Totally stuck!  I can't get into the site to use Joomla Xplorer, and I can't use ftp/ssh to change the ownership or permissions of anything owned by nobody.nobody, let alone change the configuration.php file.  I feel like I'm missing something obvious, or I've made a stupid mistake, but I don't know what.

Can anyone help?

If there's something I need to ask the webhost to do, it shouldn't be a problem, but I have to give them specific instructions because they're not familiar with Joomla! or how it works.

Thanks for reading this far!

_________________
Phoebe
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I'm not bossy, I just have better ideas.

firstly, I do not think that you needed to worry too much about who owns the files when you move them

if you did a clean install of joomla, all files at that point would be owned by you  (not the nobody etc.)
stuff installed by joomla get owned by e.g. nobody because that is the user that creates them but it is not required that they are owned by e.g. nobody

if I was starting the task and had shell access, I would just copy everything up to the /public_html
then edit the configuration.php and you are done. I would leave the ownership as is.

having files owned by the webserver user e.g. nobody is usually a pain.

by the way, if you have shell access, are you not able to chown (change the ownership of) files yourself?

_________________
Do you want the answer to be as vague as your question?

The original install of Joomla (in the subdirectory) created some files as nobody.  When I tried to change them to thetown before, it totally screwed up access, so we laboriously put them all back to nobody and used JoomlaXplorer instead.  When they're set to thetown, it seems JoomlaXplorer can't change them and if they're set to nobody, I can't change them outside JoomlaXplorer.

I don't want to do a clean install at this stage because of the numerous tweaks and hacks we'd have to reproduce, and also all the extra components and modules which I'd have to reinstall.

No, I can't chown the files -- don't know why exactly but whenever I try it tells me I don't have permission, presumably because I'm logged in as thetown and nobody owns them.  I keep getting stuck in the middle of the two and it's a right pain in the arse.

I have now downloaded configuration.php and made the changes to the file, and uploaded it again with ftp.

But I'm still getting permission denied errors every time I point my browser at the site.


(BTW, if there's a good way to permanently use one or the other to get around this thing, I'd be really happy, but this thread (http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,51041.0.html) tells me there probably isn't.

_________________
Phoebe
--
I'm not bossy, I just have better ideas.

I wasn't really suggesting a clean install but stating that at install time ALL files are owned by the ftp user and therefore ownership doesnt matter to joomla

what does matter is file permissions

to just work as a website, I do not think that joomla actually needs write access to anything but it probably needs read access to every file.

write access is required to install stuff and for certain configuartion files that get written to, but the write access is only required at for that specific purpose, e.g. when clicking save to save the global configuration settings. Joomla will still run as a website. Only certain admin functions will be hampered.

normally, when you for e.g. ftp some files to the webserver, the default permissions will allow joomla to run.

I am not sure what your problems are. It may be unrelated to joomla.

As a basic start point to troubleshoot, I would upload a basic html page to the root public_html and try to access that to see if a non-joomla file can be accessed

then you could try it with the same file but named whatever.php to check that a non-joomla php file can be seen

_________________
Do you want the answer to be as vague as your question?

Good idea -- I was assuming it was down to moving the Joomla! files, but now I've checked, it is indeed the whole server as a plain old index.htm gives the 403 error as well. 

I've e-mailed the host about it, so maybe it's not my fault after all (which is always my assumption when I change anything!)

_________________
Phoebe
--
I'm not bossy, I just have better ideas.

you may also want to rename the .htaccess to e.g. myhtaccess.txt and then try the html file again to check if that is the root of the problem ( although it shouldnt be if it was a standard joomla one )

_________________
Do you want the answer to be as vague as your question?

Okay, tried that too and it makes no difference, so I guess I'll wait for the host to respond now and see if they can figure out what's gone wrong.

Thanks for your help with this!

_________________
Phoebe
--
I'm not bossy, I just have better ideas.

you are welcome. It is very easy sometimes to assume the fault is ours or that it must be something complicated.

always a good idea when troubleshooting to check out the basic stuff first, find out what does work and where it stops working

One thought, did the /public_html folder remain in the same group as the webserver e.g. nobody  ?
and is the file permission at least 750 ?

_________________
Do you want the answer to be as vague as your question?