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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:53 am 
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As a long time blogger who uses almost every blogging platform there is, I can understand your frustration. Indeed I was totally turned off on cms until I tried Joomla! If you think Joomla is tricky, just try Drupal! That said I disagree that Joomla is not ready for prime time. It may be we are not ready for Joomla, blogs can sploil you :)

I would like to see one major feature implemented or a module. The only thing lacking in Joomla is pinging the posts and better search engine friendly urls. I've read some where in these forums that content is king and I agree, but if search engines can't find you it doesn't matter that much.

Give Joomla what it totally desereves! Pinging posts and real search engine friendly urls!

I am also very interested in learning as much as I can about Joomla! I want to learn how to make Joomla look and behave more like a wordpres blog. Now at first this may sould like a turn off to hardcore Joomla users, but hear me out. It would be a great transition point for many! Also I want to use Joomla for business!

So if you don't like Joomla, and you think nothing works like it should, it's probably because every thing is different here, and you need to learn a new system.

Now how can I ping my posts?


Last edited by duvien on Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:53 am 
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Very true. Joomla is very easy but may take some getting used to when migrating from another system.

For good looking URLs and SEO, look to http://www.open-sef.org/.

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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:16 am 
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jkimbo wrote:
The only thing lacking in Joomla is pinging the posts


Pinging the posts? Thats a new one, maybe it does what you want but the terminology is different.
Could you explain in plain english what you are trying to do here?

jkimbo wrote:
and better search engine friendly urls. I've read some where in these forums that content is king and I agree, but if search engines can't find you it doesn't matter that much.

Opensef is a great option. Also 404sef, 404sefx and if you dont mind paying there's even sef advaned at sakic.net

jkimbo wrote:
I want to learn how to make Joomla look and behave more like a wordpres blog. Now at first this may sould like a turn off to hardcore Joomla users, but hear me out.

Check this site out its on joomla http://www.shilpimadan.com

jkimbo wrote:
It would be a great transition point for many!


I doubt it, blogging is intrinsic in joomla and most admins would know this.

jkimbo wrote:
Also I want to use Joomla for business!

Check this showcase out

jkimbo wrote:
Now how can I ping my posts?


ping post.xxxx.xxx.x.xxx  lol  ;) :) ;D :'(

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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:34 am 
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Most dedicated blog software has a standardized way of informing other sites of new entries (by calling a specific URL on the site), which is called pinging. That's about as far my knowledge goes, though.


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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:07 pm 
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I sure hope you were kidding about not understanding what pinging posts means. I shutter at the thought that this may be why Joomla doesn't ping.

Many blog authoring tools automatically ping one or more servers each time the blogger creates a new post (or updates an old one.) That is, the tool sends an XML-RPC signal to one or more "ping servers," which can then generate a list of blogs that have new material.

Most blog systems like Wordpress offers you the ability to create a list of aggregators to ping for each post. When ever a new post is made, these aggregator sites get pinged. In turn this attracts search engines to come and spider your blog more regularly. I have one blog that now gets visited by a handful of search engines a couple of times a day. The advantage to this is huge! Not only can I get a new post indexed by the next day, but it also makes it possible to get new sites indexed faster too by adding a link to them. Since my blog is visited so frequently it spiders all the links it comes across.

Most of my blogs now get visited at least once a day! I am very surprised you are not familiar with pinging posts which is one of the most understood and basic concepts of blogging, which makes blogging so effective.

Joomla does not ping any posts, nor has a way to do it out of box. It was my hope and desire to find a extension or module that makes this possible. Otherwise I would still have to use my blogs to get my joomla posts indexed. Which would be a pain in the google to have to do just to accomplish what Joomla should already be able to do.

I realize that search engines will eventually find you, but I'm not interested in waiting for them to find me. Pinging is like saying, hey you, over here! and they come!

This is perhaps the main reason aside from the totally different platform to learn that most bloggers are not interested in Joomla.

I on the other hand see great potentials for Joomla sites assuming we can ping each post.

I am totally surprised that there is no extension or module or interest in such a powerful feature as pinging aggregators.

Just in case some don't know what aggregators are, they are, see this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggregators

Hope that clears up ping posts :)

Now does any one know how to make this happen in Joomla?

Thx


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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:11 pm 
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Think this topic needs to be split when discussion started on blog ping.
This would be a great extension to add to Joomla core but it does have a sorted past.
Maybe why it wasn't added?

Did some looking around and found a few good info on XML rpc for weblogs.
http://www.xmlrpc.com/weblogsCom
http://pingomatic.com/

Intresting read...
http://www.blogherald.com/2005/08/16/un ... -and-ping/

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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:18 pm 
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Quote:
Most of my blogs now get visited at least once a day! I am very surprised you are not familiar with pinging posts which is one of the most understood and basic concepts of blogging, which makes blogging so effective.


mmm, I would argue the ability to add lots of content very fast. A blog is a CMS really, as is Joomla.

As for pings, I think its more than a fashion than a tool that has a real effect. Google can tell how often you update content, it doesn't need a  ping. I am pretty sure cnn, bbc etc etc dont have pingomatic set up ;)

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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:22 pm 
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wow, you mean bloggers know more then joomla users? CNN and other authority sites don't need to ping because they have a zillion BL's and very high Page Rank. You do know what page rank is? It's not a fashion it's a fact. Amazing the misinformation and lack of information I'm seeing :)

I make my money off blogs. Have done so for the past 2 years. If you doubt the importance of pinging you are indeed in the dark :)


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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:27 pm 
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Quote:
one of the most understood and basic concepts of blogging


Thats the statement that was a little to sweeping for me.....

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/interne ... actors.htm

Not sure I see ping there anywhere ;)

There are MANY MANY things you can be doing to help increase traffic before you need to worry about ping

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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:44 pm 
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ok dude pull a seo post from 2005 out of context if you like, and even go by that old list too. It wasn't taling about blogging any way.

Look, don't ping, I make enough bucks off my blogs, and I'm nothing special or hardly unique. But I do know my blogs :)

Stay where your at, gives me the edge. Don't ping, just stay out of the way for those who do understand these basic principals :)

Sure would like the option to ping my posts on Joomla, is that asking for a lot?

There must be a pinging solution for Joomla, some one humor me, even if you don't think it helps, does any one know how to make it happen?


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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:07 pm 
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For all you blackhats and spammers out there, here are some of the best spamming tools on the market, most tested & reviewed by yours truly.WARNING: I highly recommend you do not use any of these tools directly for your main sites! Instead use these tools on disposable domains and splogs that you registered by proxy. Use your splogs to redirect traffic or links to your main sites.Only if you know what your doing should you attempt to use them directly to main sites.

http://armyofblogs.com/spamming-tools/

Yes, you are real respectable...

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Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:19 pm 
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I am respectable by many in the industry, my main blog Army Of Blogs which you were good enough to promote for me is the leading blogging and IM resource on the web. I've reviewed every major program there is for seo and blogging. I provide information not easily obtainable, and I do it for free. Others sell what I freely write about in ebooks. I cover every thing from BH, WH, Albino WH, and IM.

People trust me and look forward to my exclusive reviews and interviews with other movers and shakers in IM and blogging. I cover all the latest releases often found first on my Army. But enough about me. I just want to learn how to ping posts on Joomla. :)


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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:14 am 
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Hmmm,
A quick check to see what's in Google's index for Army of Blogs shows....

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=al ... arch&meta=

Effective. 15 pages listed in Google.

You may also note that the majority of the pages contain the same description in the SERPS. Is the site new?

Pinging can bring in traffic to the blog simply because it is alerting other bloggers of the content. They come visit, they may like, they may provide links in. That's where the SEO benefit can come from. It's not a bad thing at all, but it's not the be all and end all and won't make a bad blog good.
That said, it's a common blogging tool so it makes sense to be included in any Joomla! add-on aimed at blogging.
What must be realised though, is that blogging, although huge, is not all there is to the web. There is a saturation of blogs out there simply because of the hype. I've sat in on business/internet seminars where so called experts in SEO and website promotion preach the power of blogs to the uninformed - generally to sell their own services. They probably even believe a whole load of it too. Then I listen to the questions from the floor and the pretty inaccurate answers that are given. Most of those businessmen and women then go off and start blogs. It's like a pyramid scheme.

Best way to get good position in SERPS? Build a good site and write good, original content.


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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:09 am 
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the site is about 7 months old I believe and completely WH. I do not use any BH on it all all. Since it's primarily a IM site it gets traffic from marketing. G lists 159 pages on my browser, http://www.google.com/search?q=site:armyofblogs.com
yahoo 241, and msn 394.

BL's G=27, Y=27,000, MSN=606

Pinging brings indexing. I have a new blog only 4 months old that I do push to the limits and it has 56,000 pages indexed in G.
The traffic comes from the search engines, not the pinging.

Myth: Best way to get good serps is write good content.

All my content on army is exclusive and unique, helps me very little. I have splogs that out rank my army blog that are only 3 months old.

Content is certainly very important, but so is getting your pages indexed and in serps. Search engines have no way of distingushing good content from content spinned or scrapped. Pages are not reviewd by humans, but visited by spiders. They are not graded by quality of content but by relevant content. It is BL's, and relevance that will ultimately determine how well you do on serps. The quality of content is left to humans to judge. All ses can do is filter out dupes, redirects, and bad links. They can not grade content.

Content is very important for return traffic! Which I get a lot. And for getting links, which I am very picky on lately.

I respectfully suggest that it is you who is uninformed if you do not understand the b=power of blogs. Blogs have paid my way to Hawaii twice last year and once this year. I am gainfully self employed and wanser to no one. I freely share my techniques on my main blog, which is one of the reasons it does so well despite being completely WH.

I can build a blog empire from scratch and make $10,000 in just 3 months from adsense. After that it just gets better :)

So go ahead and ignore the facts, who's really loosing out here ;)

So no one knows how to ping posts on Joomla?

If any one would like to contact me personally that can develop a extention I can definitely market it for you!

Regards!

UPDATED:
foamcow - sorry I read your post too quickly and read more in to it then there was. Forgive me but i sit in front of 2 computers at home wilt multiple browsers open trying to do the work of 5 men!  Rarely do I use a spell checker too. I've been a IM for the past 10 years or so, and the past 3 have been with blogs. The last two almost exclusively with blogs. Trust me I know blogging. You are right about one thing I missed earlier, there are a lot of IM sharks out there, and we are being flooded with really bad IM, in fact I recently wrote about that! I'm involved in JV's and heavily in to IM, so I understand the temptation to simply want more at any cost. Even before IM I had strong sales and marketing experince. Your right, the biggest and most lucrative market to be in is promoting services and programs geared to help people become successful! I would like to say that there are some really good programs out there and very good seminors too! However lately it seems we have been flooded with crap! It hurts all of us! Even IM!

But to be perfectly honest and frank, there is no better IM tool then blogs! Many many people are making serious cash from them! The very top are the ones who promote the courses, and programs, those involved in JV's and promote products they never even touched! Or have to touch! But even a newbie or ma and pa operation can greatly benefit from the core techniques we all use in power blogging, fully automated. People make up to $10k a month just on splogs with crap content. The content has to be crap because they target adsense! :)

Keep a open mind my friend! We never stop learning! Regards!


Last edited by jkimbo on Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:41 am 
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Although interesting, this thread also earns a chuckle or two direct from the humor department.

And I must say, the boy scout blog site does look slightly suspicious, especially since it has similarities to one of those infomercials that offers the knowledge of how to buy a 17 million dollar mansion for three wooden nickles only if you call now and lay down your plastic for six small payments of $69.95. What was even more spooky was the onslaught of sexual referrences. Very revealing.

I have a site that is approximately two months old and still not promoted that has several more cached Google pages than yours does, but what do I know? I will say, though, the ping thing has caught my attention. Thanks for that.

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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:52 am 
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At the risk of dragging this out further and straying from the original post... but I don't think the OP will be back anyway

Quote:
The quality of content is left to humans to judge.


Who gives your site the best, as in most relevant, Backlinks? An automated spamming tool that hits random blogs run by 11 year olds about their Guinea Pigs or a site with genuinely relative and original content.

Back linking is important, there is no doubt and I won't argue that fact, but a hundred backlinks from pointless sites aren't worth 1 link from a serious, "qualified" site. You must know that surely?

Also, as I understand it, SE algo's DO analyse content for relavancy AND similarity. I've watched an interesting presentation given by Google about what they do with data... very clever and very interesting and it did give some insight into why some things work and others don't.

If you're making a living from what you do then good luck to you, but I'm not speaking without experience or knowledge here. I've had my successes too.

As I said, pinging should probably be included in any Blogging component produced for Joomla! beacuse it's a fashion, it's expected and the way to encourage more users is to give them what they know but with a slice of lemon. But it certainly is not a silver bullet as far as SEO is concerned. It will get your site crawled, but your site will be crawled anyway.
Case in point. I recently completed a very small site for a company here in the UK. A single link in to this site from my own was enough to get the whole thing spidered and indexed in Yahoo!, MSN and Google etc.
No pings, no blog posts (unless you count the one from my own site), no comment spam, no offline marketing either. It just happens, it's what spiders do. All the ping does is alert another page that there is something new on your blog. Nothing more.
Currently the site get's spidered every day. That will slow down as there is no regular new content being put up there, but that's the type of site it is. If I added a page each day, the spiders would continue to come each day.

Quote:
mmm, I would argue the ability to add lots of content very fast. A blog is a CMS really, as is Joomla.

The nail got hit on the head there. The power of blogs is that people who would previously have considered themsleves unable to have a website because they aren't "techy" enough now have websites... but they call them blogs. Because of this relative simplicity, there are more sites cross linking, normally to other blogs. That's the phenomenon and that is why blogs are successful. See, I'm not denying that blogs aren't a potentially useful marketing tool what I am saying is that pinging is largely irrelevant.

Have you done any tests with a new blog that doesn't ping anything. Just link to it from an already indexed site. See what happens. Providing the URLs are accessible (most are, SE's can cope with a few URL params) then your whole site should get indexed pretty fast. Once it's in there the spiders don't stop coming, they visit regularly checking for new content and reindexing as necessary. If you are posting new content regularly then I would argue that is why you gain ranking... SE's like new content as it makes a site look important.

It's not a biggie, if you want to ping, then ping away like there is no tomorrwo as it hurts no-one. But what you shouldn't do is attribute the effectiveness of a blog with the fact it pings other pages/blogs/services. You are getting good rank because you are posting new content.

Incidentally, the search query: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:armyofblogs.com is what I should have done, it was late and I'd been on a long conference call with a US client! Apologies!

Long post, apologies.
:-)


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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:17 pm 
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Hey Guys. This thread has gone off topic. I would tell you to bring it back on topic, but I don't really think that is possible. However, if someone wants to open up a new thread about Blog Pinging, then feel free to do so, then post a link to that thread in this one. After that time, I will close the thread. I don't think the original poster is coming back to this thread anyway. Thanks! :)

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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:15 pm 
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exrace wrote:
Think this topic needs to be split when discussion started on blog ping.
This would be a great extension to add to Joomla core but it does have a sorted past.
Maybe why it wasn't added?

Did some looking around and found a few good info on XML rpc for weblogs.
http://www.xmlrpc.com/weblogsCom
http://pingomatic.com/

Intresting read...
http://www.blogherald.com/2005/08/16/un ... -and-ping/


Can you split the topic Mr. Moderator?  :P

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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:23 pm 
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Joomla does have its issues. It takes time to learn, I think its buggy software but I have managed to work through it and deal with it. It lacks many features that I hope to see in future releases. Its biggest problem I think is support, especially with extenstions.


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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:10 pm 
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I would love to, but I really have no desire to go through it and disect what needs to be split and what does not. :( Lazy? No... just really busy. I highly recommend opening a new thread. :) Thank you for understanding (or not understanding if you don't  :-\ )

Have a great day all!

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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:29 pm 
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I've split the thread and renamed it to 'Using Joomla to ping blog posts'

hope that's okay with everyone.

thanks,

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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:08 pm 
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Thank you for spliting the thread in to it's own! It is appreciated as under the old one it may have been missed by some who may have just disregarded it as junk reading the old title. The new title hopefully will attract more attention and interest.

I would like to respond to a couple of points made earlier.

chiefgofor:
I was merely stating a fact that very few seo's would ever dare to disput. The two most important factors for serps *is* BL's AND Relevance. NOT as some assume "good content". Good content is essentual for return visits and being popular.

How is relevance determinded? Yes by backlinks. It doesn't matter so much how many BL's you have as it does the quality of BL's. The more themed BL's you have the better! For example if I had a Realestate site and had 16,000 BL's that were nothing more then a banner farm which included various unrelated content that just linked to me, that would count less then if I had say 100 quality BL's from *other* realestate sites. Relevance is also determind by keywords found in your pages.

So if you Googled the term Realestate, Google would present you the most relevant results for it to the best of it's algo's ability. The  top results would be delivered based almost entirely by BL's and relevance to your query. But no system is perfect because damn it, some folks know how to game search engines :)

As for SES analizing content I already said they have filters in place for dupes, relevance, redirects, and even poor quality links, to name a few. You can still game them pretty good if you know what your doing. This can easily be proven by noting how many splogs bump legitimate sites on serps!

And I do agree with you that the power of blogs is undeniably the inherient capabilities it has, it's a walking talking seo machine, and so easy to work even boyscouts can use them to the fullest :)

And I forgot who said what again I am in the midst of trying to write this and do my work, but some one basically heldd the opinion that basically my site was a boyscout thing or something and used my stats for examples. If you must use examples like that, at least refer to me as a boyscout leader :) My site army of blogs is mostly a labor of love, it is not my bread winner. I lost count how many blogs I have after 50,000. How do you keep count? I have programs to manage several WHM accounts but many are lost or forgotten! And 90% of them all run on complete auto pilot with no action on my part.

But back to the main topic of pinging posts and why it is so very important. For one thing you do not need a authority site or high PR links to get new sites or pages indexed quick! Some one said they didn't even need to ping to get a new site indexed fast and that is true! All it takes is a link from a PR6+ and you could get a new site indexed in 24-48 hours! That's because the higher the PR the more often spiders come to crawl. How time consuming would it be to do this for every new post or new site or new page? Pinging your posts automates this for you instantly! Automation is a big part of all this.

I suggested a extesion for Joomla to ping all our posts for those that want to do it. I was not suggesting we all have to do it, or even agree with it. I love Joomla! It is by far the most robust of all the cms I've tried! But I was shocked to learn it does not ping, and even more shocked to find there were no third party entensions for pinging!

Now we can argue the merets of pinging verses writing good content and wait for search engines to find us and reward us for our good content, or we can ping our posts and say, "hey Google, Yahoo, MSN, over here, new content for you to eat!" and they come fast! They can't resist! Mmmmm new content, yummy! We can also point out how a lot of bloggers and IM have abused all this and more and turn away, but what sense does that make? Every one can benefit from pinging!

So rather then judge me or my site, may I suggest we consider creating a extention for pinging? Let those who want to use it use it, let those who don't or feel they don't need it, not use it! I'm all for democracy :)

Regards!
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:02 pm 
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Quote:
I lost count how many blogs I have after 50,000. How do you keep count? I have programs to manage several WHM accounts but many are lost or forgotten! And 90% of them all run on complete auto pilot with no action on my part.


You consider that to be "White Hat SEO"?
'nuff said really


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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:36 pm 
Joomla! Apprentice
Joomla! Apprentice
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:54 pm
Posts: 10
How can one argue with such razor sharp wit?

Guess some people can't read and contain what they have read.

Let me explain,

it is VERY possible to do white hat AND black hat.  Chew gum and walk too :)

I said that my army site  is white hat, which it is.  I also said it was my labor of love and not my bread winner!

Now guess where I do make most of my money?

nuff said :laugh:


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Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:27 pm 
There is a small group of us interested in working together with v 1.5 on "boxing up" a Joomla, Blogger edition for ourselves and anyone else who might be interested. Of course, including the ability to ping blog posts, otherwise known as PBP, will be important.

No one so far mentioned the need to chew gum and walk simultaneously, but, we will have advantage of an elegant, completely re-factored code base, so, I suspect nearly anything will be possible!

If you are interested in participating -- and you can manage to be *fun and friendly* -- please contact me by email AmyStephen@msn.com.

Thanks! Amy  :)


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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:39 am 
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Joomla! Explorer
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:13 pm
Posts: 324
Location: Mumbai, India
Ok, while I know the last post in this thread is abt 6 months old.

I thought I'd add this info here to make it simple for some one looking for an answer.

J!Ping Component
http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/

Trackback
http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/

J!Tags Plugin
http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/

TagJ!
http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/

BlogSidebar 2.5
http://extensions.joomla.org/component/ ... Itemid,35/

These are just some of the blogging tools which are common in Wordpress that are available for Joomla! now.
I've been using Joomla and mambo so heavily for the past few years now that re-researching CMS options was not feasible / interesting enough.

What this post made me do is take another long, hard look at Wordpress. And setup my personal blog with it.

While the codebase, 3PD Mods and functionality of WP has improved dramatically since i last looked, I have 9 yrs of IM experience and would like to state that Joomla is still a better option for those building communities or company sites or portals, as opposed to a personal site or journal.

Also,
Content is King. Any webmaster worth his salt will tell you that.
Better content = better BLs, Trackbacks etc. = better SERPs

CNN & BBC have so many BLs purely because they are :
1. Credible
2. Add content almost by the minute
3. Add unique content
4. Add relevant content
5. Generate topic relevant BLs bcoz of 4 above.

_________________
Always willing to lend a helping hand
www.mediawiz.biz - Pro Web Solutions & Promotion
www.jooms.com - Joomla Showcase, Services, Hosting and More.


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