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Spiderglobe. I hope your extension will be duplicate URL proof

spiderglobe wrote:

Spiderglobe. I hope your extension will be duplicate URL proof

The SEF urls are unique (of course). Only the problem within Joomla is that serveral paths (e.q. queries) can lead to the same content. This is solved by creating the same SEF url although the paths are different to the content. This is meanly caused by the itemid which keep track of the path trail. You can decide within the configuration if you want to add the Itemid at the SEF url, although this is not encouraged for SEO purposes...

For example:
The SEF url /about-joomla/the-cms/whats-new-in-15.html in the default example of Joomla is related to 5 Joomla urls, which display the same content:
- index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22:whats-new-in-15&catid=29:the-cms&Itemid=29
- index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22&Itemid=34
- index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22&Itemid=29
- index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22:whats-new-in-15
- index.php?view=article&id=22:whats-new-in-15

In this case the article id is used to create the URL. The only problem with this is that when the URL request is made for about-joomla/the-cms/whats-new-in-15.html it can only be routed to one of the 5 urls. Therefore you can assign the order within the configuration of the SEF extension to the SEF urls. In other words if you have more routes to 1 sef URL you can decide which route is taken for the display by setting the default URL in the backend if more URL's are detected..

For SEO purposes only 1 URL should be created (as above is the case). In mine opinion you must never publish the same content within different URLs but of course this is what you mean (I presume).

The routing is based on the none SEF url. In other words: all the above 5 urls will be translated to the same unique URL.

regards,

Richard

trichnosis wrote: wow, this is a great news for all of the joomla community.

i'm currently using J! 1.0.13 with opensef. I'm not able to use J! 1.5 r3 because of a good sef component.

using J! 1.5 means loosing current urls. loosing my current urls is not an option for me.

Thanks for your effort

First of all, you must USE Joomla!'s SEF URLs to get unduplicated content and permanent URLs. Those URLs are *not* SEF URLs, so, you will see duplication in content using them. Why? Because ItemID *is* a data model issue. It's amazing the advancements Johan has made for v 1.5, but you actually have to use the SEF URLs to see the benefit.  Wink

I posted this situation as a bug report in the Developer Q&T forums. I think there are a few bugs that need to be fixed.

Perhaps you would be willing to help debug and submit patches for core URL issues? In my thinking, there is no reason for add-on SEF URL tools that override the core. If you want to adjust the plug, that's one thing, but redoing URLs in an independent extension is not a good idea.

spiderglobe wrote: Hi Amy,

I don't agree with you with the fact that I should use the SEF urls from the core. I do think that a custom extension is necessary for URL rewriting.

spiderglobe wrote: Why? Because for SEO purpose you want to define clean path's and clean filenames in the URL and you want to have full control over the URL's. The only way to achieve this is to make an URL rewriting plugin. In fact it's almost finished and I'm building the backend admin for the extension to manage the SEF urls. So we will release it.  under GPL but with a support model attached to it.

spiderglobe wrote: Also the itemid issues is solved in the SEF url plugin and it's working great. For example I can now define paths like: /menu-alias/section-alias/category-alias/article-alias or any combination what you like to configure, for example /menu-alias/title-alias and this can (is not necessary) depend on the itemid.

spiderglobe wrote: The reason why I'm building the SEF url plugin is that it is in my opinion necessary for good SEO, therefor the standard SEF system plugin (the default router) iis lacking some major functionalities.

spiderglobe wrote: In regards of performance it's also better to use the SEF extension we are building since once the URL's are created no more database lookups are necessary. The default router reads the MENU table's to fix the mentioned itemid issue. These are not cached but at each page request these queries are made. If you have a lot of menu elements this could be causing some performance / memory issues (I've seen some sites with a large number of menu items). The SEF extensions supports URL caching.

spiderglobe wrote: Another issue in regards of SEF urls  is the support for legacy URL rewriting for the legacy components. This is done with the 1.0x sef_ext.php file in the components. This should be supported within the URL rewritting and I working on this as well.

spiderglobe wrote: The extension is combined with a plugin which 'replace' the main router functionality. This is really great in 1.5!

spiderglobe wrote: Also notice that I've been working to patch the 1.5 for SEO on the HTML creating part. Therefor I've contact Wilco / Johan and made patches but this is still not in the current 1.5 release due to the time frames to release 1.5 final, It will be l be on the roadmap for 1.6 >>

spiderglobe wrote: In my professional opinion 1.5 is a great CMS / application framework but still lacks good support for SEO which is necessary
- Good, meaningful URL's
- Good titles (which is not working well in 1.5)
- Good META titles support (full control over the html head section and to be able to define custom META fields)
- Good HTTP head support (full control over the http HEAD settings, but this is discussed before by Phil Taylor somewhere in the forums).

Regards,

Richard

of core means not all extensions will be built that way

spiderglobe wrote: The extension is combined with a plugin which 'replace' the main router functionality.

spiderglobe wrote: Examples? See overhere:
/home should be the standard / No double suffixes for the same pages;
/more-about-joomla/29-the-cms/24-content-layouts ==> /more_about_joomla/cms/content_layouts.html
or
/more-about-joomla/29-the-cms/24-content-layouts ==> /joomla/more_about_joomla/cms/content_layouts.html

/more-about-joomla/29-the-cms/24-content-layouts?format=pdf should be /more_about_joomla/cms/content_layout.pdf

/extensions/26-extensions?start=3 should be /extensions/how_they_work/page3.html

@aliens - Please give me an example of something you can't do in v 1.5 related to SEO? That's what I am trying to understand. We have Charl's Semantic xHTML with Microformats, for crying out loud! And, we have SEF URLs and NO duplicate system content. NO ItemID issues. All I see is plug changes. Do you know how easy it would be to create a plug that changed the "-" to "_"?

<?php
/*
* @version		$Id: xxxxxxxx.php 30 2007-10-11 21:24:24Z richard $
* @package		xxxxxxxx
* @subpackage	Plugin - System 
* @copyright	Copyright (C) 2005 - 2007 xxxxxxxx.org 
* @license		GNU/GPL, see LICENSE.php
* 
*/
// Check to ensure this file is within the rest of the framework
defined('JPATH_BASE') or die();


class  plgSystemxxxxxxxx extends JPlugin {
	
	function plgSystemxxxxxxxx(& $subject, $config) {
		parent::__construct($subject, $config);
	}
	
	/*
	 * Assign the new router for the SEF URL rewritting;
	 */
	
	function onAfterInitialise() {
		global $mainframe;
		if($mainframe->isAdmin()) {
		 	return;
		 }
		// check if xxxxxxxx is enabled
		require_once (JPATH_ADMINISTRATOR.DS.'components'.DS.'com_xxxxxxxx'.DS.'config'.DS.'configuration.php' );
		$sef_config =  new xxxxxxxx_configuration();
		 
		if ( $sef_config->mode == 1) {
			$router =& $mainframe->getRouter();		
			require_once (JPATH_ADMINISTRATOR.DS.'components'.DS.'com_xxxxxxxx'.DS.'includes'.DS.'mainrouter.php' );
			$router = new xxxxxxxxRouter();
		}
					
	}?>

1. Do you agree Joomla! v 1.5 does not create system generated duplicate content with SEF URLs on? (If you don't agree, how does it do so?)

2. I understand you prefer an "_" to a "-". But, Google's SEO expert Matt Cutt says he prefers dashes for SEO. But, we both agree, a simple plugin could allow you to change it to an underscore, if you like.

3. Aside from the previous point, would you please share the specific menu item choices that create URLs you do not like *and* that cannot be "fixed" by using the alias functionality built into core? That would be helpful.

What specific HEAD section improvements do you propose be made? And, do you agree that these are not "OpenSEF" issues? But rather SEO improvements?

5. Also, have you reviewed Charl's work? And do you see his template overrides with more pure, semantic form and Microformats as helpful and absolutely *hugely* important for SEO optimization?

In short, I'll continue building sites for clients in 1.5, but not if SEO is important to them. In that case I'll wait until something like sh404SEF or Artio comes out for 1.5.

spiderglobe wrote:

1. Do you agree Joomla! v 1.5 does not create system generated duplicate content with SEF URLs on? (If you don't agree, how does it do so?)

Not agreed. Just copy a menu item (for example in the default 1.5RC3 more about Joomla) and you will see the same SEF URL. This because the URL is based on the menu alias.

2. I understand you prefer an "_" to a "-". But, Google's SEO expert Matt Cutt says he prefers dashes for SEO. But, we both agree, a simple plugin could allow you to change it to an underscore, if you like.

Actual this is a discussion item. Some preferrer _ and others prefer -. Eitherway it should be configurable because ranking algorithms of the search engines change frequently.

spiderglobe wrote: Notice word filter, character filtering, space character replacement (this should be a _ instead of the -)

3. Aside from the previous point, would you please share the specific menu item choices that create URLs you do not like *and* that cannot be "fixed" by using the alias functionality built into core? That would be helpful.

It is not only the menu items (these are the starting points. And yes, the basic alias is a good improvement but it should be part of the whole URL path for example if you have a blog section attached to a menu element it should be for an article: /menu-alias/section-alias/cat-alias/article-alias (of course depending on the configuration part)

What specific HEAD section improvements do you propose be made? And, do you agree that these are not "OpenSEF" issues? But rather SEO improvements?

Lol, I was part of the opensef team. No these are not opensef related. Opensef was an URL rewritting tool.

• You can use without .htaccess.;
• With .htaccess, you can get rid of /index.php/;
• You can also choose to have extensions that are appropriate for the type of page (.html, .pdf., .whatever...)

I just want to have full control over my title tag (currently not supported good enough), want to add custom META tag fields, for example to prevent Google to include some pages in the cache, to prevent Google to display a summary, full control over the robots tag, etc.. See the improvement that I've made a few months ago:  http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-1.5/ ... oomla-1.5/

5. Also, have you reviewed Charl's work? And do you see his template overrides with more pure, semantic form and Microformats as helpful and absolutely *hugely* important for SEO optimization?

That is not the case. HTML is great, special the override, but it's meanly the HEAD section and the HTTP HEAD settings (for example the cache settings and other added values in the http head).

Will sure add you to my skype and discuss this sometime with you.

Had a discussion with Wilco a few weeks ago. What it lacks in the core team is a focus on good SEO implementation of Joomla. There should be a workgroup or somekind of team that handle these issues. Note: also the internal search engine can use some improvements...

Regards,

Richard

• Many are having problems with PHP 4.3.x. It appears something happened in the URLs that cause that release to fail. So, when they upgrade, it works.
• Others are having problems with an Article-section-blog link. I can reproduce that problem and submitted it to the Q&T forum to be fixed.
• One person pointed out system generated duplicate content. I've linked to this a number of times in this thread and have reported it to the Q&T forum to be fixed.

• URL Migration tools are needed - but can *still* use Joomla! core SEF URLs with those tools. I am migrating several sites to Joomla! and will use redirects to accommodate these issues.
• Joomla! v 1.5 has gotten rid of system generated duplicate content. So, many of the old problems people might be afraid of are now gone. Let's be clear about that. Steve - I will look at RSS feeds again. Awhile back, it looked good to me. If it's creating a new URL, then, yes, that's a problem, IMO.
• Changing the plug is fine. I've said that each time I've posted in this thread. But, that doesn't have to change the router function and it won't lock out developers. And, it's not needed for ALL.
• We do not need a dozen SEF URL tools where end users get forced into buying specific solutions. That's a real problem with our 1.0.x series and we all know it. Let's keep things open and work together for end users.
• SEO Optimization is great! But, it's not an SEF URL tool. In other words, you don't have to give up core URLs to use an SEO Optimization tool.

AmyStephen wrote: Please, let us be articulate and clear with our language:

• URL Migration tools are needed - but can *still* use Joomla! core SEF URLs with those tools. I am migrating several sites to Joomla! and will use redirects to accommodate these issues.
• Joomla! v 1.5 has gotten rid of system generated duplicate content. So, many of the old problems people might be afraid of are now gone. Let's be clear about that. Steve - I will look at RSS feeds again. Awhile back, it looked good to me. If it's creating a new URL, then, yes, that's a problem, IMO.
• Changing the plug is fine. I've said that each time I've posted in this thread. But, that doesn't have to change the router function and it won't lock out developers. And, it's not needed for ALL.
• We do not need a dozen SEF URL tools where end users get forced into buying specific solutions. That's a real problem with our 1.0.x series and we all know it. Let's keep things open and work together for end users.
• SEO Optimization is great! But, it's not an SEF URL tool. In other words, you don't have to give up core URLs to use an SEO Optimization tool.

we are intending to rework the menu manager for 1.6/1.7 to become a full blow page manager.

Within 2 -3  weeks we will launch the BETA for the URL rewriting for 1.5.

I would much prefer to see:  /more-about-joomla/the-cms/content-layouts.html