Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

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Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by JoZ3 » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:17 pm

To have backend single in English is one of the great defects that had *ambo, many possible users of other
languages with very little knowledge of English stopped to this system by very powerful and simple that this is.
 
Launch the backend multilanguage before version 1.1 would help much to to the migration of others cms towards Joomla.

I believe that this he is one of the key points for the growth of users of Joomla!  ;)

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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by vavroom » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:39 pm

Such a feature is a fairly major change and as such can't be introduced into a maintenance release.

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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by kezako13 » Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:31 am

What about the integration of the adminlanguage project into joomla!

It is widely used and no fatal bugs reported/known !

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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by ccondrup » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:50 am

Let me add that I do not feel that this is urgent. Enhancements to ACL and multilevel categories etc are so much more important! When you know your way around the backend, it doesn't matter if you don't fully understand the meaning of the words printed - as long as you can operate the site - which is easy with fairly good english knowledge, or just good memory of where the menu items are located. Besides, computer-language sounds stupid in all other languages than English :laugh: - especially the norwegian computerized words... blah!
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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by ptr » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:33 pm

ccondrup wrote: Let me add that I do not feel that this is urgent. Enhancements to ACL and multilevel categories etc are so much more important! When you know your way around the backend, it doesn't matter if you don't fully understand the meaning of the words printed - as long as you can operate the site - which is easy with fairly good english knowledge, or just good memory of where the menu items are located. Besides, computer-language sounds stupid in all other languages than English :laugh: - especially the norwegian computerized words... blah!
You're right, it's not urgent. It is highly critical !
Currently I can't point my customers to Joomla, simply because they would lose their localized administration.
To tell the truth, I can't understand why adminLanguage couldn't be integrated into the core.
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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by eyezberg » Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:38 pm

Because the current version is out, and (ex mambo 453) the next one includes a miltilingual backend, check out the CVS..
I have no idea who was maintaining adminLanguage, but I guess most non-english speaking users (like many in the french community too) will not switch/update/upgrade to Joomla as long as this is not available!
Maybe a cross-community effort to port adminL to Joomla 1.0.1 would yield quick results?..
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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by masterchief » Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:45 pm

kezako13 wrote: What about the integration of the adminlanguage project into joomla!
It is widely used and no fatal bugs reported/known !
There are some issues to be solved, but if there is a community group that would like to take integration of the admin langluage handling from Joomla 1.1 and do a "soft port" to Joomla 1.0 let me know.  It's not difficult, it's just very time consuming.  I can't offer you much else in the way of resources except for mentoring.

However, if you want to do this I need some serious commitment within a short time frame.  My guess is it would take about a week for two, maybe three people to develop a fairly advanced proof of concept.
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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by ccondrup » Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:20 am

ptr wrote: Currently I can't point my customers to Joomla, simply because they would lose their localized administration.
I think this issue with language only concern those who do not know any english, while being able to have custom groups with user permissions concern everyone. It's no question what is more important.

On a side note: Other countries need to teach more English in school, and stop dubbing everything on tv. Geez.
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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by JoZ3 » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:00 am

I have a little free time masterchief to work in the soft port for the Joomla!  1.0.  It tell me that I must make to begin because  I am  interested. ;)

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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by eyezberg » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:00 am

ccondrup wrote:
ptr wrote: Currently I can't point my customers to Joomla, simply because they would lose their localized administration.
I think this issue with language only concern those who do not know any english, while being able to have custom groups with user permissions concern everyone. It's no question what is more important.

On a side note: Other countries need to teach more English in school, and stop dubbing everything on tv. Geez.
Sorry, but I think this answer is plain nonsense.
If you don't know any english, and there's no localized version, you are not going to use the software at all, simply. If you can't use it because you don't understand the interface, what would you care about any features, ACL or others? So what you are saying is, just exclude all non-english speakers in favor of those who do.. I'd like to know how many % are not of english mother tongue.
And, second point, maybe US, UK, Australian etc schools should teach more spanish, french, german, italian and so on?! Wake up.
(a bit provocative I admit, but I don't like stupidity..)

@masterchief: thanks for this offer, we will discuss this on the french support site.
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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by Vimes » Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:33 am

masterchief wrote: There are some issues to be solved, but if there is a community group that would like to take integration of the admin langluage handling from Joomla 1.1 and do a "soft port" to Joomla 1.0 let me know.  It's not difficult, it's just very time consuming.  I can't offer you much else in the way of resources except for mentoring.

However, if you want to do this I need some serious commitment within a short time frame.  My guess is it would take about a week for two, maybe three people to develop a fairly advanced proof of concept.
Andrew, count me in on this (especially the mentoring ;-) )

I can spare the time, and my own project needs a better understanding of how the whole language integration thing is going to work, plus I'm not currently giving anything to the community.
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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by ccondrup » Sun Sep 25, 2005 1:39 pm

eyezberg:
Here's the narrowminded reply:
I'm Norwegian, born and raised here in Norway, and English is my 2nd language. I run a Norwegian site with Mambo 4.5.2.2, backend is in English. My point is you clearly can operate this system without being fluent in English - and for schools etc - no users will ever have to see any English, even though the backend is English.
There are localized versions - just not for the backend. How many % of a sites users needs to access the backend?
I think most people who will be adminestering Joomla, are people who are traversed on the net, and therefore probably know a fair share of English. I mean - of all the help pages and forum posts that reside here. You need to know English in order to download Joomla, let alone set it up (on a host that has English instructions for ftp, hosting etc.)

And for the openminded reply:
Of course, you are right that there are users who will look elsewhere for software because this is not available localized. I'm not saying it's not important, but I thought we were asking the dev team to focus on the cms-core. Would you like to see it distributed like Gallery2, with locales included for everything, making this a 30MB download?  Or am I to understand the backend isn't built for easy translation through language files, like the frontend? I didn't know that - of course this is something that should be core, but the translations itself should IMO be 3PD.


We need one international language, and English is so widespread already, that it's no question which language this would be.
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Re : Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by hornos » Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:19 pm

ccondrup wrote:Or am I to understand the backend isn't built for easy translation through language files, like the frontend? I didn't know that - of course this is something that should be core, but the translations itself should IMO be 3PD.
That's the key point you ignored ccondrup!
FYI, the whole backend is hardcoded (no language variables used) in English. The former adminlanguage hack would replace hardcoded strings by admin language variables.

We just want to point out that giving ALL users the ability to administrate their Joomla! website in their own language should definitely be a priority. Is Joomla! such a popular and awarded software because it's in hands of english speakers only? I don't think so!
&mp;quot;ccondrup"\ wrote:I think most people who will be adminestering Joomla, are people who are traversed on the net, and therefore probably know a fair share of English
this is a narrowminded point of view  ;D  I'm the admin of http://www.mambonewbies.com and co-admin of http://www.mambofacile.com and I can tell you for sure that most people (end users with no dev skills) are really eager to take the step to Joomla! but they won't, just because they don't know English (nobody's perfect :( ).


Now I have a few questions for masterchief:

1- From my understanding, updating the adminlanguage hack for Joomla! would just be a search/replace operation on the (numerous) impacted backend files, is you suggestion (soft port of Jomla! 1.1 admin language handling to Joomla! 1.0) such an easygoing (but time consuming :-\) process?

2- Do you think that the average Joe will be able to do it? any dev skills required?

3- Don't you think that there are risks of importing unknown bugs from 1.1 core files to 1.0?

IMO, updating the adminlanguage hack would be easier, tell me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Re : Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by ccondrup » Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:58 pm

hornos wrote:
ccondrup wrote:Or am I to understand the backend isn't built for easy translation through language files, like the frontend? I didn't know that - of course this is something that should be core, but the translations itself should IMO be 3PD.
That's the key point you ignored ccondrup!
FYI, the whole backend is hardcoded (no language variables used) in English. The former adminlanguage hack would replace hardcoded strings by admin language variables.
Aha. That changes things. I'll shut up now  :laugh:
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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by JoZ3 » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:49 pm

I wanted to know like this structuring the translation of backend, it is going away to use a single file of language for the basic components of the Joomla like adminlanguage that single has a file of language for Core, or each componen is going to have its translation,  for example:

administrator/components/com_banners/languaje
ccondrup wrote: On a side note: Other countries need to teach more English in school, and stop dubbing everything on tv. Geez.
I believe that the schools would have to dedicate more time in improving the native language before teaching another language.  But if we spoke in the commercial sense, to learn another language to enter other markets the English it is important or any other language, at the moment in my country some schools are watching Asia where there is a great market but especificamente to China and for this reason they teach Chinese like second language.  :)

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Re : Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by hornos » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:00 pm

JoZ3 wrote: I wanted to know like this structuring the translation of backend, it is going away to use a single file of language for the basic components of the Joomla like adminlanguage that single has a file of language for Core, or each componen is going to have its translation,  for example:

administrator/components/com_banners/languaje
You currently have one file for frontend and one file for backendl. Language files will be handled with more granularity in Joomla! 1.1.0! Every core component (poll, banner, contact...) will have its own language file located in the same /language folder. The main improvement is that all backend files will (finally!) use variables instead of hardcoded english strings.

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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by JoZ3 » Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:20 pm

OK check this http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... l#msg62678 a "soft port" language for Joomla! 1.01 from angelfranco.

A great work !!! :D

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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by eyesofkids » Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:26 pm

I agree what hornos said.
I was the team member for the adminLanguage project of *ambo.
The adminLanguage file for *ambo 4.5.2 is at http://mamboforge.net/frs/?group_id=218 .
I think it's a little time consuming if fellowing this base.

If we folk feel it is necessary, then we should do it.
But all i wonder whether the next version of Joomla will change this method of admin language and the core team of Joomla will do it by themselves (like the *.ini method of *ambo 4.5.3).
If we do it, it will be not reused and only have short life.

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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by ibnhafsun » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:41 pm

Angel Franco, from the Spanish Community, has the port done and working. Please, contact Hornos for further details.
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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by ptr » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:51 am

Lovely... but now version 1.02 is out, which means Angel will have to do this all over again. This is where I don't understand, why not integrate Angel's work directly into the core files, and be done with it ?
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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by Jick » Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:25 am

It isn't that easy, remember the 4.5.3 was still in alpha state and so was the language handling.

Please be a little patient.

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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by DataHellas » Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:26 am

I am the creator of the AdminLanguage project used for mambo 4.5.2.x. I have many requests for creating an admin language pack for joomla. The previous AdminLang Pack had zero bugs and initially created for Greek Language. Some translators added their own languages and now AdminLanguage have being translated in 5-6  languages (as far as I know) and downloaded about 10,000 times only from mamboforge ( http://mamboforge.net/frs/?group_id=1037 ) and datahellas.com websites. One of the reasons why I have not yet switched to Joomla is that I like my Greek backend at Mambo... I think the admin's multi-language interface is under development by the core team for the Joomla's future realeases, so there is no reason for me to create AdminLanguage Pack for Joomla. I am not well informed about the Joomla's future realeses so if I am wrong please let me know.
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Re : Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by hornos » Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:58 pm

DataHellas wrote:I think the admin's multi-language interface is under development by the core team for the Joomla's future realeases, so there is no reason for me to create AdminLanguage Pack for Joomla. I am not well informed about the Joomla's future realeses so if I am wrong please let me know.
You're not wrong, WIP ;)
Thanx for the great hack you've provided to the community BTW.

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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by someone » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:26 pm

DataHellas wrote: ...under development by the core team for the Joomla's future realeases, so there is no reason for me to create AdminLanguage Pack for Joomla...
..and we and our Mambo clients wait for Joomla! teams work. We can't go to Joomla as our Finnish middle aged clients are not familiar with English ;)
Core team: Here is a need for adminlang. Forget the ACL etc "nice to have" features. Create ~bugfree 1.0.x with multilinqual backend, please.

and Thanx to DataHellas fo working bugfree Hack.

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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by Markku » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:37 pm

Thanks for your input, someone.

As soon as we hear something from core dev's I'm sure we can come up with locallized admin language pack quickly.  We just have to be patient.
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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by Hackwar » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:24 pm

someone wrote: Core team: Here is a need for adminlang. Forget the ACL etc "nice to have" features. Create ~bugfree 1.0.x with multilinqual backend, please.
You should look into the roadmap and the SVN. In the roadmap you can see, that version 1.1 will be released in this quarter and when you look into the SVN you can see, that, as far as I can tell, the possibility to use different languages in the backend is complete (except for a few quicktip-boxes probably). At one point in the svn it was allready available at least in english and german. You should probably look into it and start translating the files and contributing them to the devs.
If you look into the SVN you will see that there are some major issues that have to be done prior to releasing version 1.1, otherwise it would be as alpha as mambo 4.5.3. And ACLs are a big part of this. This is by the way allmost complete and wont need much time of the devs. Other features and improvements are on their way and I think the release wont be late december but more middle of november.
Releasing Joomla 1.0.x with multilang by the devs will mostlikely take as much time as finishing version 1.1
its probably better you stick for now with your Mambo and change when version 1.1 arrives.
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Re: Backend Multilanguage before Joomla! 1.1

Post by Jinx » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:41 am

Hi guys,

As Hackwar was already keen to find out we have almost completed the transalation of the backend.  We have been listening to your feedback on the translation and multi languages issues and will act on them. More news about the inclusion of the language features will be made soon. For now I would like to ask u to hold of the translation work until we have released an first alpha and our translation team has all in place to start the translation process.
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