d3v

Reaction to the statement posted on www.opensourcematters.org
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Forsh
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d3v

Post by Forsh » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:43 am

Now there`s a guy doing his part...  ;D  http://forum.mamboserver.com/search.php ... id=1160530

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Re: d3v

Post by gram » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:44 am

LOL...  Saw that.

Try this url:
http://forum.mamboserver.com/search.php?do=getnew

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Re: d3v

Post by TheSaint » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:45 am

Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.
Thread deleted?
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Re: d3v

Post by Forsh » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:53 am

I think he`s inspired me to go only a little `cut and paste` rampage myself.

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Re: d3v

Post by de » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:05 am

I am sorry, but something like this just annoyes me and makes me rather leave completly. It looks like spam, and it is spam. But do we want spam? I thought we don't. Else I would not want to support this.
We don't even have a new name (as far as I know), if I were a new user I would rather go for another CMS seeing such. Pointing them gently to the new forum ok, make it your signature etc. or something like this... but don't spam, this doesn't make it better. This doesn't make "us" better.
Thanks for considering.

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Re: d3v

Post by Forsh » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:14 am

They oust your (I say your because I am pretty new to Mambo) developers and seize control of your CMS under the guise of a foundation, and you think posting a few links informing the community where they can go for help is spam?

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Re: d3v

Post by gram » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:17 am

Although I agree with D3V's sentiments, I think DE has a better idea.

If we come off semi-militant, we offend those who do not know us yet.

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Re: d3v

Post by de » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:29 am

Yes. That were not even all new threads.
1) It would be more effective as a news/information if we had something really new here... but honestly I find it even more difficult to help in this forum (not sure how the others helping out dealing with this though)
2) If you run around posting to a big amount of threads the same message, then it is spam and nothing else.

Active members are probably the one interested most in the news and I think they got it and they will get it. If you now in addition run around spamming people it is a bit like you would now start to try to hack the servers. But this is just not the right way. Yes, I am behind the development team and I don't like at all what Miro is doing. But I am behind all this because I think this is about something better, not just another side. We are not Miro, and we do not remove posts just because theire opinion are different or change the rights of persons, and we don't ... well you know, what I don't want ;-)

I am still trying to help people over there and from time to time point them over here. Also everyone clicking on my homepage should get the message. (That I am not using a signature for the "redirection" yet has to do with this not beeing a "complete house" yet... but thats my very own opinion).

I hope you understand my reasoning.
Last edited by de on Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: d3v

Post by stingrey » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:34 am

As I have stated here:
http://forum.opensourcematters.org/inde ... 312.0.html
We would also ask that people remain calm and not become overly emotional, we are a community and not a mob.
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The impetuousness of youth ;)

Post by idigital » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:20 pm

Ok, valid points raised here, although I feel I should point out that d3v is a young guy and we can all remember what wer were like as teenagers yeah? ;)

Maybe he was a bit too enthusiastic with his actions on this one, but as Forsh pointed out, given the underhanded actions of Miro this is not completely out of line for an induvidual. Especially considering the rampant censorship of community members by Miro on the official forums.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, and some community members will take those measures out of their passion for the project. To say that such an action would reflect badly on the entire community is somewhat silly, imho.

Also, I'd like to let you know if you haven't met him in the unofficial #mambo channel, d3vlabs is quite like the most helpful and friendly voluntary technical support guy there and has been doing so for quite some time now.

Anyway, that avatar he was using was quite nice wasn't it? ;)

Let's not be too harsh on ourselves at this point.

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You don't have to be disruptive to get the message out

Post by unity » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:47 pm

Look folks, I think we all know now where things stand regarding posting in support of the Core team over at the now Miro-controlled forums and really it needs to stop before it becomes counterproductive and makes us look like we're in the wrong.

That doesn't mean that something can't be done to get the message out, just that it needs to be done differently...

So welcome to Fight Club!

If you've seen the film then you'll know that the rule is that you never, ever talk openly about Fight Club and the same goes for what I'm going to say here.

Some of you will know already what a G**gleb*mb is, other may be new to this, so I'll explain how it works.

A certain major search engine called G**gle makes heavy use of 'page ranks' to decide how far up the index a particular webpage goes based on how many sites/pages link to the page and the words which appear in that link.

If anyone remembers, back before the last US Presidential election, if you typed 'dumb motherf***er' into G**gle then you'd find that the number one entry on the results was the White House - that came about because of G**gleb*mb in which a whole load of people would deliberately refer to Bush as a 'dumb motherf***er' on their websites, on blogs and in forums, each time using that phrase as a link to the White House's website.

Same thing applies here - if you want to spread the word then one of the most effective - and entirely legal - methods of doing it, which Miro can do nothing about, is to G**gleb*mb the word 'Mambo' whenever you get the chance with a link to OSM as follow

[url=http://"http://www.opensourcematters.org"]Mambo[/url]

If enough people take this on board and do it without making it so stupidly obvious that G**gle get wind of what's going on, then pretty soon you'll find that any time someone types 'Mambo' into G**gle then the first entry they'll get it OSM.

Like I said, the rule here is 'never talk about fight club' = meaning that other than for this post, you should never use the word G**gleb*mb in the same post, comment or webpage that you insert the 'Mambo' link.

Oh, and I guess it should be obvious but I'll say it anyway - don't try an use this over at the Miro-run forums - they'll only delete these links anyway before they're indexed by G**gle and it would rather give the game away.

Just think of this as a little 'guerilla marketing' and remember, don't talk about fight club, and everything should be ok...

Now let's go to work...

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Re: d3v

Post by Forsh » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:33 am

Wow, unity, that is a great suggestion.

Certainly the hardest thing to beat will be any marketing or advertising by Miro. They pretty much have a solid brand with a large following, and they didn't even have to build that--they got a free ride.

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Re: d3v

Post by alwarren » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:00 am

Forsh wrote: Wow, unity, that is a great suggestion.

Certainly the hardest thing to beat will be any marketing or advertising by Miro. They pretty much have a solid brand with a large following, and they didn't even have to build that--they got a free ride.
Rebranding is not necessarily a bad thing. People will follow the product and it's reputation. People don't follow Miro. They follow the product. Miro doesn't have a chance in hell of maintaining the product. Remember, the product, market share and prestigious awards now live on this server. It's a no-brainer. Just IMO.
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d3vlabs = d3v

Post by d3vlabs » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:08 am

de: I am sorry, but something like this just annoyes me and makes me rather leave completly. It looks like spam, and it is spam. But do we want spam? I thought we don't. Else I would not want to support this.
We don't even have a new name (as far as I know), if I were a new user I would rather go for another CMS seeing such. Pointing them gently to the new forum ok, make it your signature etc. or something like this... but don't spam, this doesn't make it better. This doesn't make "us" better.
Thanks for considering.
You can call it spam, you can call it artistic form of protest….but yeah it’s 210+ posts of spam if you don’t sugar coat it. Speaking of a new name for the project, it will be announced on these forums before anywhere else once it will become official. Please take your time to read more of my explanation listed below the personal replies to view my view on this spam.
1) It would be more effective as a news/information if we had something really new here... but honestly I find it even more difficult to help in this forum (not sure how the others helping out dealing with this though)
Don't see how. A lot of the people that I have re-directed here either received help from me or other forum members, while they were waiting for a few days at mamboserver forums. I also seem to have revamped a few of old posts where users solved the issue, but haven’t posted their solution it, this will be helpful to those with similar issues in the future. I'd personally rather help the users here since I know my posts will be safe and considering the possibility that these forums will be used as the official support forums for the CMS in the future, it only makes sense to post helpful content here instead of it being posted on the resource that might soon vanish or will revoke the threads Miro chooses as offensive.
We are not Miro, and we do not remove posts just because theire opinion are different or change the rights of persons, and we don't ... well you know, what I don't want ;-)
I didn't understand this portion, please elaborate.
TheSaint: Thread deleted?
Yes I assume, however you can search for *.* in content and "d3v" for user to find what is being reffered to.
Forsh: I think he`s inspired me to go only a little `cut and paste` rampage myself.
I seen that. Gave me a grin  ;D
and they didn't even have to build that--they got a free ride.
Yup. Take note of the timing as well. Isn’t it surprising that 4.5.3 was due to be released right about the time when the Mambo Foundation announcement was made.
GRAM: If we come off semi-militant, we offend those who do not know us yet.
Always glad to hear your opinion GRAM. I do agree that I probably came across a little bit too strong, but then I think it was justified and it got the effect that was in mind. Read more below for details.
Your critique is always appreciated stingrey, as I have nothing but respect for the work that have done for the &ambo community. My reply to this is same message which I posted for GRAM above.
idigital: To say that such an action would reflect badly on the entire community is somewhat silly, imho.
That's the way I saw it as well idigital. I never claimed to be a major piece in &ambo community. I am simply an active supporter and I do most of the work at #mambo IRC channel, anyone who is a usual there can confirm there. I have not claimed in my "spam" that I'm an OSM coder or have any official representation, the only thing that I said is that I’m part of the community, which is basically anyone who has an account on these forums. I simply re-directed the users to a place where they can re-post their questions or informed them on why they are not getting the expected support.
Also, I'd like to let you know if you haven't met him in the unofficial #mambo channel, d3vlabs is quite like the most helpful and friendly voluntary technical support guy there and has been doing so for quite some time now.

Thank you for this, I'm following a lot of principles that you originally had in #mambo when I came there first time 8+ months ago.
Anyway, that avatar he was using was quite nice wasn't it?
And yes that avatar was nice indeed, there's a at least 6 other people who have it now like we discussed earlier.

Some of you will know already what a G**gleb*mb is, other may be new to this, so I'll explain how it works.
You have an interesting idea, however let's not forget the following.

:: The are other resources besides Google
:: We do not want to deal with the word Mambo any longer due to possible legal implications.
:: Yes I understand that using it on these forums would technically shield us from the action stated above, but let's not forget that Miro's amibition is pretty strong.

Yet I'm still fond of your idea, let's implement it alongside other tactics.
alwarren: Miro doesn't have a chance in hell of maintaining the product
Completely agree. I'm still pondering myself, what was their business model for continuing the development of the product which you have to assume they are interested in turning into profit. I mean can they be really that reckless? Or they actually have a new development team in mind which will quickly learn the &ambo core php code and  produce regular updates with bleeding edge technology, convert 3dp components to &ambo native and provide support for hundreds of daily new threads at the forums. I'll put a  ??? here cause I couldn't find a sarcastic grin.

NOW regarding the following post which some of you have seen at mamboserver forums recently:
Well since the entire $ambo core development team and pretty much every other member who has been affiliated with the mambo scene directly or indirectly, has migrated to http://www.opensourcematters.org for continuation of their development effort, without being under Miro's corporative umbrella, I advice that you make a post relating to your problem over there, where the true spirit of $ambo lives. As your have probably noticed these forums drastically reduced in post count, user count and what's more noticeable, reply count.

If you wish to understand the situation a little bit better, you can read the FAQ here: http://www.opensourcematters.org/ or if you didn’t have a chance to follow the community news over the last weeks, here's a good place to catch up: http://lonemamber.[URL banned].com

You always have an option of waiting here while Miro will keep banning those who put their lives into this project and hope that they (Miro) will find somewhere a dedicated team of coders and supporters who might answer your question in the future. The choice is yours, we as the community already made ours:

http://www.opensourcematters.org
The statements above are bold facts and reflect the events that have been taken place over the last couple of weeks. They are indeed given a bit raw, but I always thought it’s better to tell it how it is. The post above came after I spent some time brainstorming in #mambo channel regarding what could be done to tell the users of the "old &ambo community about the ongoing movement under these ideas:

:: give maximum exposure to the situation (210+ threads in different categories and sub-boards will do just that)
:: avoid having your threads deleted by Miro. ( I haven't made any new threads, I simply replied to the existing ones)
:: provide information to those who need it ( I replied to all the 0 replies in the last 3 days threads since a lot of the people who posted were expecting responses...yet there was no one to respond)
:: offer additional links to explain what the situation is about: I gave a link reffering to OSM FAQ section and as well as LoneMamber's blog site (you might give an argument that he is biased in his statements...but all his comments come after the posted news story....and its still the only resource that has a complete listing of all the events that took place since the beginning of this Foundation which gives u an option to make your own opinion)

Also please understand that Miro can always remove my account and all the messages at the same time with a click of a button. I've been expecting this ever since I took action and I take full responsibility for it. I also used my real IP instead of a proxy if they wish to contact myself personally or my ISP if there's a problem. It’ll be interesting if they will bring up some hypocritical statement regarding not following the forums’ guidelines while they chose to ban numerous people who haven’t broke them (including a character who just happened to write these rules himself)

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Re: d3v

Post by d3vlabs » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:19 am

Now regarding scaring the people with my "miliatary tactics", here are some of the responses that I received on the threads that I have posted:
d3v,
i actually was able to eventually find a hack for this, but i think (although i'm still a bit undecided) i am going to migrate to opensourcematters.org, so i think i don't want to bless this old community with a great tip...but i'll save it for opensourcematters.org

(and if you haven't migrated yet, you might want to look into it)
Appreciated! i'll be posting and reading at http://www.opensourcematters.org/ from here on.
Well, it looks like I should've been checking in here more regularly lately... after reading (most of) the thread about the Foundation, I'm off to http://www.opensourcematters.org
Thanks for the heads-up, dv3! Given my experience here and with the CMS formerly known as Mambo, I'll definitely be throwing my support behind the core dev team!
Thanks for the advice. I only heard about this the other day and I find it very worrying indeed. I'll have a look at opensourcematters.org and see how I get on.
I see i didnt knew that
Ok, thank you for your reply..i will follow your suggestion!
Already there
Thanks for the reply. I'll check it out.
I was a little surprised that there where zero responses. Whilst it was a situation of my own making my site had a hard crash disabling the database (and inconveniencing 700 registered users) so to me it was a MAJOR issue.
no no i posted over there on your instigation, so thank you
Of course there were some negative responses like in the threads below:

http://forum.mamboserver.com/showthread.php?t=57874
http://forum.mamboserver.com/showthread.php?t=57975

but if I can help out 40+ people and have 2 guys get mad at me, I can live with these odds. Like my friend in #mambo said, "there's a nut in every bag"
Last edited by d3vlabs on Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: d3v

Post by de » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:32 am

I think few people that getting afraid of the situation by this and may evaluate other CMS will take the time to express this. Some may even don't register and search the forum (or the internet and find it anyway) and then come to such statements. If I were searching for a new CMS I would almost certainly hesitate from it.

Then again not all know the history and all the things around it. Sure there are some articles/blogs that may describe it well. But then you have also something like the 20 answers of Miro... you just validate #13 and #14  in a way.
In doesn't matter that you did not state to be a representating the community or the OSM... it will be seen like this.

What I mean with we are not Miro? In short: I don't want to have the same level here. That I support the dev. team (even though I don't know all facts) should not be because I see the chances higher but that they have better ideals and that their way of acting is better. And in effect that means all, not just the core team.
It would have been a lot better if all people stayed to the rules and the facts. Doing not so just gives Miro reasons for their actions. No one will ask later what was first etc..

Btw. you can be quite sure that Miro will not remove useful posts over there. Their actions may have seem not quite reasonable lately... but this is I believe nothing they will never do. It is still the largest knowledge base (even if not the most effective).

Anyway, I was not going to argue... I just wanted to express myself clearly to hopefully prevent other followers.

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Re: d3v

Post by d3vlabs » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:37 am

understood and respected.


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