After waiting days...

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manuman
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by manuman » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:37 pm

thethepapapa wrote: Need I remind folks that Coke also had a world class PR/Marketing firm for New coke? Recall how Coke had a little problem when customers rebelled? It took years to build an identity.  It took years to rebuild the faith of the end users.

This whole fork may be a great step forward for the development team, and for the freedom of the code, but its a big step backwards in public acceptance. No different than the slaves freed from pharoah's rule...there is going to be a period of wandering the desert until the new name finds its promised land.

Name awareness, building recgonition is going to take time.  The project may be free, but, there was a price to be paid in public awareness.  Joomla may require the crutch...the system used to be known as, or the prject split from...just to get folks to recognize somthing that was vauguely familiar.

I ask, did the PR firm employ a survey or a focus group? Anyone sit behind the one way glass and listen to the reaction of actual and potential customers? Or was it a new coke kind of situation...Yes, a complete new product while taking the old one off the shelf...that's brilliant!

For what its worth, I own a PR/Marketing company (albeit a small one) and I offered up a whack of potential names (and it don't matter a whit that mine were not considered).

Thethe
I'm sorry but comparing the current circumstances with what Coke did is ludicrous. They didn't need to rename... we did.

On rebuilding the brand... in all honesty... how many potential business clients who come to you looking for a website have ever heard of Mambo (the CMS). At least here in Australia Mambo is only ever associated with a clothing label. So for 90% of potential clients; whether its Mambo or Joomla, they will have no idea what it is until I tell them about it.

In the end... the best test will be in the field. Playing the numbers game and seeing what happens. I for one have no doubt at all that I'll be doing just fine.
Shayne Bartlett - Joomla Co-Founder
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by Billiken » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:19 pm

I'm sorry but comparing the current circumstances with what Coke did is ludicrous. They didn't need to rename... we did.

On rebuilding the brand... in all honesty... how many potential business clients who come to you looking for a website have ever heard of Mambo (the CMS). At least here in Australia Mambo is only ever associated with a clothing label. So for 90% of potential clients; whether its Mambo or Joomla, they will have no idea what it is until I tell them about it.

In the end... the best test will be in the field. Playing the numbers game and seeing what happens. I for one have no doubt at all that I'll be doing just fine.
Yes, your absoultly right, no one really knows the name Mambo, but its a word that is easy to remember nearly impossible to mispell and quite fun to say.  Couple all of that with the quality product and its not hard to sell.

Joomla is phonetically ambiguous, it doesn't snap to memory well at all (I myself have had numerous mistakes in spelling it already just trying to get to the .org site).  Speaking as an English speaking user I can't promote it, when I walk up to a prospective client and try to preach the gospel of Joomla they're going to look dumbfounded b/c they can't associate the word with anything.  eBay, Yahoo!, Google, all took clever plays on words and used them to their advantage.  Google and Yahoo! were risks at the time, but the markets the internet was 'young' and they used that in their marketing.

Gateway was successfull b/c the word Gateway was unmistakable.. thier choice of using a cow and cow patterned boxes stemmed from them being located in the heartland of America where the average person always associated fields, farms, and cows..

A brand name has EVERYTHING to do with association and if the people who are supposed to promote the brand name can't even be sure how to pronounce it.. then I'd say its a terrible choice.

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by Elpie » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:33 pm

Gateway is not such a good example for NZ, as it failed miserably here  ;D
But, all that aside, all I want is for the CMS to do well, win some more awards, and keep on keeping on in the direction which has been set.
We've got the name and we're stuck with it.  It also occurred to me though, that there is plenty of time to bed the name in, and if it doesn't work in the corporate market there is nothing stopping us releasing a new name further down the track.
Mozilla is just as well-known as Firefox for example. So, if we have "Joomla! brought to you by Open Source Matters" (can't be OSM - that's used already) there is nothing to stop us having xxxx later if need be.
Just some lateral thinking going on here.  It's late (3.30am) and imagination is active! LOL
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by brian » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:44 pm

Elpie wrote: But, all that aside, all I want is for the CMS to do well, win some more awards, and keep on keeping on in the direction which has been set.
the best way to do that is to vote for Joomla! as the best open source project at http://www.linuxawards.co.uk/

NOTE for your vote to be valid you must vote in ALL 5 categories and you cant vote Joomla! in them all

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by thethepapapa » Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:07 pm

No doubt, a fresh start is wonderful when you want to build a new brand.

Coke made a mistake. So did *iro.  I think I can also contemplate what the Dev Team has done. Sure, I guess I should have inquired to the research process of name selection BEFORE the name was selected, but alas, I didn't.

50 percent of people dislike you on sight (either they like you or they don't)...even before they get to know you...its just human nature. My personal opinion is my personal opinion, I don't care for the name.

It doesn't resonate with me, it doesn't strike me, it doesn't move me, it doesn't add, it doesn't subtract...its just a name.  If you wanted a clean slate, well, the name is meaningless to me.  You now have the opportunity to wow me with whatever you want. Mission accomplished if that's what you wanted.

In hindsight, I think I'm just PO'd by all the extra work I have to do re-educating clients, reselling what I've already sold, PLUS calming fears in those I recommended the project too, and then having to start the process of recommending something unknown...basically starting all over.  Ug! Guess there are a lot of folks who feel the same way.
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by cdkaminsky » Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:15 pm

Toontje wrote:
cdkaminsky wrote: only problem is people spelling it Jumla (you might consider get  jumla* *jumla for your name and forwarding to your Joomla site). 
That's why jumla.com, net and org are registerd by Brad from the Core Team already ;)
And why I did the same with my name  ;)

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by Circlefusion » Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:19 pm

I agree that Joomla is not the best choice for a product name.
I rate the name a 6.5 out of 10.

But...
I honestly don't like a lot of names that open source software uses. Ubuntu, Gentoo, Drupal, SuSE....I didn't even like Mambo when I first heard it.

The Joomla name will work. After saying the name in my head about 20 times, the name has stuck and now it sounds better than when I first read it.

There are other names out on the market that work, even though they are strange sounding. In the U.S., there are successful brands that are based on foreign words, such as Ferrari, Porsche (which gets misspelled everytime I read it) volkswagon (which is great in German, but sounds strange in English), Toyota, Hyundai (which also gets mispronounced and misspelled every time I hear about it). Hell, even Linux is a strange name that many people mispronounce before they hear someone else say it. I know that I first pronounced it as "Lie - Nix" before I learned better.

Joomla is not the absolute best brand name that I've heard, but I can definitely see Joomla working out well. It has all of the benefits of originality. There is no confusing it with other brands at all. I think a really good brand image (logo, style, colors, theme) will make help make it work.
Last edited by Circlefusion on Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by cdkaminsky » Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:26 pm

Circlefusion wrote:
I honestly don't like a lot of names that open source software uses. Ubuntu, Gentoo, Drupal, SuSE....I didn't even like Mambo when I first heard it.
The Joomla name will work. After saying the name in my head about 20 times, the name has stuck and now it sounds better than when I first read it.
I agree  Xoops seems popular....I thank that name is very odd....how do you say it anyway....  is the X silent....and then you have oops.  hahaha

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by tomh_cz » Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:58 pm

I sorry about that, but I have same feeling about chosen name Joomla like "StupidIS" has as starter of this thread.
Not so angry, but more frustrated. :'(

It sound to me like children's toy or some fairy-tale fantasy land...not something serious or (jesus!) somethig I will have to offer to some customers! I was expecting something completly different after so long waiting.

I have to say that here. But just only one time, no crying for it in future.  Name was chosen, so nothing to do with it, and at last,
this is really subjective and I'm only small part of this community. And hopefully, quality will come through with any name.

Feel a little better now and trying to live with this name.  Long live to Joomla!  Eh..
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by farimi » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:06 pm

miaw.... i want joomla!

when will i get it? miieww...

:) ;) ;D
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by guider » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:08 pm

Far far away, on a mountain higher than the highest clouds lives a man that holds the power to manage content. He wishes to invite you, into his Land. The Land. The Land... of Joomla. There's your PR right there ;D

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by twerp » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:50 pm

Brilliant Guider! hehehe

I would like to hear from anyone who really loves the name!!??
Anyone?

Is there anyway a new name is possible?
Or should we all be resigned to, it?

-sigh-
Concerned about the types who need the 'branding' vibe to jump our way.
-sigh-

best wishes to all

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by iainshaw » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:36 pm

I'm OK with the name

Apache vs IIS - doesn't seem to stop Apache
Firefox ------- doing very nicely thankyou (and it's had a bucketful of names)
Mambo ------seems to do alright

Joomla! is OK.  Maybe those who sell it to corpy types need something safer.  Is there anything stopping them rebranding along with their corpy level support etc?

I'm just glad we can move on now
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by dorjano » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:39 am

masterchief wrote: ...
I must say it's been a very hard journey and the final selection actually has quite a story to it and it was based on solid advice from top industry professionals.

At the end of the day it's not so much that the name makes the product, but the product, the Dev Team, the community will make the name just as they did for Mambo, or Google, or eBay or any number of those "What's a ..." names.
I would really like to meet those top guns. Where they leave in Kongo? How will you explain the name to a customer; a combination of John+omla?

So if you don't bother much about the name why you didn't chose StarSheepEnterprise CMS (yes sheep  ;))
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by farimi » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:07 am

ok... brand name..

choose this guys.

1. joomla! CMS

2. MonkeybussinesS CMS

:P
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by elmoch » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:56 pm

I don't think it is worth wasting time and effort on arguing about a firm decision. Is the name likely to be changed? Would it be good in any way to change it? So...
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by lester » Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:20 pm

elmoch wrote: Is the name likely to be changed?
Think about it ... the name is already in technology news web sites, the search engines have indexed the name (there's a thread discussing it) and everyone with a web site with mambo in the domain name will have now registered the corresponding joomla web site. Plus the name checked out with not having a bad meaning in any major language, not being used by another technology (or maybe any) product, and so on.

The ship has left the dock. The Airplane has taken off. I think it highly unlikely that a change is possible.

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by ispsg » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:33 pm

Before the new name released, I told myself to accept whatever name decided by the core team as they represent us.
But, after reading so many posts for few days, I have to ask;
Is Joomla! the only name put up to the core team by the so-called branding guru?  :'(
Or if the core team has the benefit of choosing from a good list of names by the guru? Then again I think the other suggessted names must be awfully worst. :o
Did the core team really look into the names suggested by community members?
Since name has been choosen on 21 Aug, I think it would be nice for the core team to inform us so as not to let the members continue the brain-storming and there you have a guru spinning the dices for the community. :-\

Now I would not be surprised if the Logo or Slogan is created by another branding guru with a bad taste ;)

Yes, the ship and plane has deserted the thousand community members on Joomla Island.
So rise our hands and shout joomla (all together) JOOMLA! :-[
Last edited by ispsg on Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by stingrey » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:44 pm

ispsg wrote: Did the core team really look into the names suggested by community members?
Our minimum criteria when we looked at the Name choice (including those posted by the community) is posted by others of the team here:
http://forum.opensourcematters.org/inde ... l#msg27286
http://forum.opensourcematters.org/inde ... l#msg27398
Last edited by stingrey on Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by SineMacula » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:45 pm

ispsg wrote: Before the new name released, I told myself to accept whatever name decided by the core team as they represent us.
But, after reading so many posts for few days, I have to ask;
Is Joomla! the only name put up to the core team by the so-called branding guru?  :'(
Or if the core team has the benefit of choosing from a good list of names by the guru? Then again I think the other suggessted names must be awfully worst. :o
Did the core team really look into the names suggested by community members?
Since name has been choosen on 21 Aug, I think it would be nice for the core team to inform us so as not to let the members continue the brain-storming and there you have a guru spinning the dices for you. :-\

Now I would not be surprised if the Logo or Slogan is created by another branding guru with a bad taste ;)
Unless you're inclined to disbelieve what they're telling us, perhaps this will help explain the process - it does not appear this was simply based on a single suggestion from a "guru".

http://forum.opensourcematters.org/inde ... l#msg27286

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by SineMacula » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:45 pm

Rey - you must've beaten me to this thread by a fraction of a second!  ;D

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by farimi » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:02 am

ispsg wrote:

Now I would not be surprised if the Logo or Slogan is created by another branding guru with a bad taste ;)
They said the community can choose the logo and slogan.
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by Matrixguru » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:25 am

jumla.com  22 aug
jumla.net    15 aug
jumla.org     15 aug

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by Toontje » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:36 am

Matrixguru wrote:
jumla.com  22 aug
jumla.net    15 aug
jumla.org    15 aug
??? ???

When I check whois, they are all created on August 21........
Antoon.

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by stingrey » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:37 am

Matrixguru wrote:
jumla.com  22 aug
jumla.net    15 aug
jumla.org    15 aug
manuman wrote: For those that have asked about the date we registered Joomla... it was registered when it passed the above criteria, as were dozens of other domain names. This was quite simply to secure those names that were being seriously considered.

Many names that were suggested in the community forums were considered and some of those were pre-registered.
We have almost a dozen differnet redundent domain names if it makes you feel better
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by Matrixguru » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:42 am

jumla was that a early  preference ?



http://www.whois.sc/jumla.net
Last edited by Matrixguru on Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: After waiting days...

Post by farimi » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:49 am

???

Is it a coincidence?
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by stingrey » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:20 pm

It was an early possibility that was flagged, so we purchased the domain to protect it.  As we did with other possibilities as they were suggested (either internally or within the community) and passed our minimum requirements.

We also observed in some cases people were registering community suggestions.
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by coscooper » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:45 pm

Jumping in late to the game been reading all of the posts and wished I'd had more time to offer opinions and ideas, but well, I've just been too busy using the awesome technology, head-down banging out really great sites for my ski community/club.

What's in a name?
I've been using this code base CMS, (name could care less) for over a year and well, the name doesn't really matter. I used it for several high-profile support sites, customer support sites and our internal software develoment intranet at my company (Software division of a very large North American Printing company). I'm just the IT SysAdmin guy and it's blown our big shot java devs away. They thought I went out and wrote it and started sweating that they'd be out of a job.  :D ) Oh, well, that's another story.

The quality, ease of use and integration of so many cool components and modules made it just work. You put the technology in place and show people what it DOES, not what it's named and no one cares. Upper management at my company just saw results and I never told them the name of what I was using/doing.

Joomla while doesn't roll of the toungue, does meet a lot of the criteria for new product naming as outlined in other forums. Frankly, I never really liked M-mbo. Too many dance thems out there in other product lines, I think of stepping on toes and falling down as you try and figure out this complicated dancing thing.

Name, schmame ... being cool, working and just plain awesome wins hands-down.

I'm on board with the technology, not the logo's or names. This coming from an old german family name of Nonechmaiker and Giench. ;D
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Re: After waiting days...

Post by Matrixguru » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:57 pm

totally agree... it bothers a few people here but.. I don't really care I'm more interested in when the new version comes out, can't wait to start promoting it  to customers... :P


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