Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Yes
97
40%
No
118
48%
Don't know
30
12%
 
Total votes: 245

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Elpie
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by Elpie » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:01 am

lester wrote: It's just a brand name. It neither bothers me or makes me feel good.

I mentioned to a member of staff today that the software we are going to move our web site over to is call Joomla! and they spilt their coffee, exclaming, "What?!!!" I spent the rest of the day calling it a content management system and no one questioned that so that's what I'll call it for now, a CMS.
Unfortunately, I'll be doing the same as you - it's a CMS.  I say, "unfortunately" because not using the name means that there is no building of the brand.  But, loyalty to a great CMS is one thing, looking really stupid, having to deal with, "how on earth do you spell/pronounce THAT?" and also having to deal with the fact that the name sounds (no matter how its said) well, just too Australian, those are issues I am not going to waste my time with.  In the past, I have promoted the CMS I recommended/used to clients.  Now, I will promote the features, but will avoid using the name. 
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by dorjano » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:28 am

I never saw such a No-feeling in choosing a name as in this case. I believe that we all finally agree that name matters.  Because we could not call this our new baby just a CMS. It deserve a goooooood name. Branding is based on a given name BTW. I believe that the mother of all problems comes from the fact that there was no choice. We were faced with this name and period. It's the same thing Mambo Foundation did. They just decide on their own without asking anybody.
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by Elpie » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:43 am

I hate to say this, but I agree.
The core team asked us on 19th August to put forward name suggestions.  They registered joomla.org two days later.  Then, on 29th August, they asked us to take part in their marketing survey to help them establish branding/marketing.
There is a wealth of experience in this forum - we have people here who have expertise in PR, marketing, branding, intellectual property, etc.  Everyone was willing to help.  But, it seems, no help was wanted/needed.

I fully support the dev team and I respect their right to make the decision on a name/branding.  However, I am not kidding myself that this was a community-based effort.
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by twerp » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:49 am

It is absolutely NOT too late.
The names must be sent in PRIVATELY to the DEV team.
And perhaps we can have a shockingly brilliant name for version 5..!??!!
That POSSIBILITY EVEN would get me back to work and stop ALL of this chatter.

in my opinion.

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by dorjano » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:00 am

Elpie wrote: ...
I fully support the dev team and I respect their right to make the decision on a name/branding.  However, I am not kidding myself that this was a community-based effort.
Elpie,
same feelings here!!! ;D
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by twerp » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:04 am

it's all been probably pretty madly busy with them. [Stating the obvious one of my many talents]

I would not be surprised at all if they had it to do over again it would be done differently.
Maybe they thought, too late [due to SUPER busy-ness] , that, oooh, posting names of the forums is not gonna make anything brilliant usable. I mean it all moves too too fast these days.. yes?

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by pointri » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:16 am

The closest thing Joomla reminds me of is a "gimlet," a nice little apertif drink.  It being Friday evening over here now, I just might run out and get myself one or six.

Anyway, I think of brands being brands being born from reputation just as much as from its germaneness to the audiences that it serves or is sold to.  I'm sure Yahoo(!) and Google got enough laughs at their launch as well.

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by twerp » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:21 am

I'm starting to get comfy with the name. it'd be great if we all did.

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by aljoomla » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:24 am

Elpie wrote: I fully support the dev team and I respect their right to make the decision on a name/branding.  However, I am not kidding myself that this was a community-based effort.
I am really sorry to read this from Elpie. I guess you would have been elated if they just took one of the names you proposed. I proposed several names but I am happy to see us move forward with a name. One the replies just above even proposed sending suggested names PRIVATELY... Do I see an attempt to be open here?

This CMS is not owned by anyone. In particular, no one has the right to put down a name just because it is "too Australian" or because "no one cares about Swahili."

Those who do not like the name, stop whining. You can express your feeling once or maybe twice, but you do not need to start calling the name stupid, silly, etc.... It is a name and the only one who is supid is the person stooping to these levels.
Last edited by aljoomla on Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by twerp » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:29 am

Only 'cause of domain scooping should, perhaps the proposed names have been sent privately. [one point I said] Cool though.

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by manuman » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:34 am

A few interesting note for those interested.

I have absolutely no problem with people dis-liking the name... understanding some of what went into the name decision may assist you. Consider this...

In order to find a name it had meet the following criteria (this was an absolute minimum)
  • Absolutely no use of the name by ANY other IT related product or business in the world.
  • Preferably no use of the name in any major product (regardless of industry) in any territory in the world.
  • All TLD's available.
  • Very low results from major search engines (at the time Joomla produced about 10 results)
  • No bad meanings in any major language in the world.
  • A word that was at least possible to pronounce in as many major languages as was feasible.
  • Any names chosen were vetted and passed by our legal team.
This is not as easy as it may seem... remember this was the initial criteria in order for any name to even be considered. We went through literally thousands of candidates, this took (I'm guessing) many 100's of man hours.

For those that have asked about the date we registered Joomla... it was registered when it passed the above criteria, as were dozens of other domain names. This was quite simply to secure those names that were being seriously considered.

Many names that were suggested in the community forums were considered and some of those were pre-registered.

I hope that this information will provide a little insight into the process. For now the name is chosen, hundreds of community members have registered Joomla domains, thousands of dolloars have been spent. It would be IMHO quite wrong to change anything at this time.

For those interested Google Joomla... over night it went from 15 (just one five) to over 69 000 results... what does that mean? It means we are gaining ownership of the Joomla brand... there a long way to go but its all going exactly as we would hope.
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by twerp » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:39 am

GREAT! Thank you! Funny how Joomla grows on ya...

'yee ha!' and a 'su-perb!' thrown in for the mix.

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by MegaNice9 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:51 am

I'm not worried about the success of the Joomla! brand name.  The cms will speak for itself.  However, it does roll off the toung a little funny at first.

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by Aristocrat » Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:11 am

I like Joomla. It is exotic, fresh, and not just another cliche. It is easy to brand, becuase it is so unique. It has a great community of people behind it. It's going to make us proud.

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by MystaMax » Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:14 am

Excellent! Well said manuman.  Like I said earlier... I'll be around.

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by t3.6k » Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:33 am

I have to admit it was a little shocking when the name was announced, but after registering some domains, and making a lame attempt at a logo (thank goodness I have great artists cause I sure stink at it) ;D, I feel it was easy to get used to, comfortable with, and frankly the reaction from some rather large clients has been positive.  I think it's a case of my corporate clients actually expecting technology companies and projects to be somewhat quirky - I think most would agree that Joomla! fits that, and that's the way I'll position it.

I admit that the name doesn't strike me as a "killer name" that has brand recognition in its own right, but given the parameters stated above (manuman), what could?  The good news, as I see it, is that in the sequence of brand cognition:  shape, color, and content (name); the content is the least important (not unimportant), meaning we have a very good chance of establishing an incredible brand architecture around Joomla!

I appreciate what a difficult decision OSM had to make. Long live Joomla!
Cheers - T3.6K

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by broeker » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:14 am

Just to echo a little bit of what mamuman said, the naming process was one of the more interesting and frustrating processes I've been involved with for quite some time. As he mentions, we spent literally hundreds of people-hours on this, with round-the-clock irc discussions in various continents, email discussions, lobbying amongst ourselves and community members, various polls and mock votes, a couple of rejections by the legal team, and more than one false start.

Naming my two children was a cakewalk in comparison. Some random bits:
  • literally thousands of names were vetted and ultimately rejected
  • we closely followed every single naming thread on this forum and the excellent compilations people posted
  • unfortunately, 95% or more of those proposed names were rejected out-of-hand because they did not meet some key criteria
  • dozens of possible names were rejected because of various international language problems
  • at least 3 possible names were rejected because they meant "a**" in French  :D
  • for the sake of the community, the name NEEDED to be extendable:  joomlahut, joomlasolutions, joomlahosting, and so on. Very, very few of the proposed names worked in this regard. 
I spend a lot of time in corporate and non-profit offices talking about Mambo, and trust me, 99% of the people who hear the name "Mambo" for the first time look at you strangely, crack a joke, or ask you to repeat it. The same is probably true for Drupal, Xoops, e107,  xaraya, Plone, and all of the other crazy names out there. The fact is that in this day and age of trademarks, domain names, Google listings, and other factors, it is virtually impossible to name a software project.

Names are very subjective, so it's no surprise that some people are unhappy. Hopefully the Joomla! haters will grow used to the name at the very least, and also understand that we poured our heart and souls into the process in order to come up with the best possible solution under the circumstances.

Go Jooooomla!

p.s. I'm not enamored with the name Suse, and I think the White Stripes is a pretty stupid band name, but it hasn't stopped from using Suse as my primary OS or dropping $20 on a new White Stripes CD. :D
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by twerp » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:17 am

I'm FULL_ON  with Joomla now... I've been very_silly_very in doubting the MAGIC of the name.
It's FANTASTIC....!!!!!

Read my posts elsewhere if you like and you'll see how the mind played tricks on me.

LET'S Go!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by SineMacula » Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:45 am

broeker wrote: I spend a lot of time in corporate and non-profit offices talking about Mambo, and trust me, 99% of the people who hear the name "Mambo" for the first time look at you strangely, crack a joke, or ask you to repeat it. The same is probably true for Drupal, Xoops, e107,  xaraya, Plone, and all of the other crazy names out there. The fact is that in this day and age of trademarks, domain names, Google listings, and other factors, it is virtually impossible to name a software project.

Names are very subjective, so it's no surprise that some people are unhappy. Hopefully the Joomla! haters will grow used to the name at the very least, and also understand that we poured our heart and souls into the process in order to come up with the best possible solution under the circumstances.
I agree... I feel no more concern about using the name Joomla! when talking to folks of any group than I did with the name Mambo. I myself didn't like "Mambo" when I first found the CMS, but it grew on me. And while my initial reaction to Joomla! was in the range of "huh?" - I think I actually liked it better from the start than I did Mambo. And now, after sitting with it for a day, tracking the slogan and logo threads, I love it!

Joomla! it is!  :)

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by mviita » Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:55 am

Googlish but will do.
Last edited by mviita on Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by TPEJuice » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:05 am

Ya know, one of the dev's had earlier mentioned something about Fandango (I think in a kidding manner).  But I really liked that for the new name.  I think the image and catchy'ness of Mambo (even though Miro has created a negative conotation to it now) was a large part of it becoming as popular, as quickly as it did.  Don't get me wrong, I attribute the 'meat' of its success to all of you Dev's (great job by the way) but being in the advertising industry, I think a lesson has been reinforced by the success of Apple:  Image is very important!
That being said, I don't hate Joomla, I think its ok (from an English American perspective) and I realize that other cultures and languanges have to be taken into account.  But I do think that regardless, a lot of time and thought should go into the image of the Open Source Matters CMS.

By the way, I would also like to take the time to thank all of you Dev's for making my life much, much easier.  I owe you some sizeable donations in return for the amount of business your CMS has brought my way.  I will try to get caught up on that as soon as possible, but for now, THANK YOU!

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by Matrixguru » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:06 am

SineMacula wrote:
broeker wrote: I spend a lot of time in corporate and non-profit offices talking about Mambo, and trust me, 99% of the people who hear the name "Mambo" for the first time look at you strangely, crack a joke, or ask you to repeat it. The same is probably true for Drupal, Xoops, e107,  xaraya, Plone, and all of the other crazy names out there. The fact is that in this day and age of trademarks, domain names, Google listings, and other factors, it is virtually impossible to name a software project.
I agree... I feel no more concern about using the name Joomla! when talking to folks of any group than I did with the name Mambo. I myself didn't like "Mambo" when I first found the CMS, but it grew on me. And while my initial reaction to Joomla! was in the range of "huh?" - I think I actually liked it better from the start than I did Mambo. And now, after sitting with it for a day, tracking the slogan and logo threads, I love it!

Joomla! it is!  :)
;D

When it comes to the crunch customers don't care about its name, they just want it to do, what they want for there business, and if not give me something that will do what I want...

8)

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by manuman » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:46 am

Exactly... to quote a well know self pronounced Sales Guru...

"Sales is easy, find out what the customer wants and give it to them!"

Moving on.. thats our job, make Joomla! the product that best fits what people/business's want. Not becuase it has a catchy(or not) name, but becuase its the solution that best fits their requirements.
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by Elpie » Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:47 am

aljoomla wrote:
Elpie wrote: I fully support the dev team and I respect their right to make the decision on a name/branding.  However, I am not kidding myself that this was a community-based effort.
I am really sorry to read this from Elpie. I guess you would have been elated if they just took one of the names you proposed.
Am I not allowed to express an opinion here?  As it happens, I would have been disappointed if either of the names I proposed had been chosen, because they did not get support from others.  Nor were they particularly inspiring.  Brainstorming with a group of people is not about taking a position, its about throwing ideas around and finding something that works. My comment was nothing to do with ego, and I gave credit to the team for the time they spent in choosing the name. Appreciating the work they did does not mean I have to like the name though.

Note: Regardless of the name, I am fully committed to supporting the CMS and the core team.  Always have been.
Last edited by Elpie on Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by manuman » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:08 pm

Elpie... your opinions are very welcome, and in my opinion have been constructive even when I haven't agreed with then (and thats only happened once I think). They certainly give me reason to think.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

:P
Last edited by manuman on Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by thethepapapa » Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:59 pm

I've dropped using names because clients seem to need more education about what a CMS can do for them and how it can be integrated into a corporate environment. I'm now of the mind frame that, just like when folks go our for lunch, they don't give a crap what the french fry cooker is called, all they care about is getting the fries.
If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by SineMacula » Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:30 pm

Yup, I find people not even asking what it's called until after they see it in action:

"Hey, cool - this is great. It'll make maintaining our web presence so much easier. What's it called?"
"Joomla!"
"Huh?"
"Joomla!"
"Oh, okay. Well, yeah, this is gonna be great!"

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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by danes75 » Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:37 am

iainshaw wrote: marketing isn't a science, never has been, never will be. 

You don't like the name, OK. 
anyone making a statement like this is a fool... hate to be rude.  marketing is a science, and anyone who's had any REAL experience in the business would know that.
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by Aristocrat » Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:49 am

No need to do name calling, looking at his website, I can tell he knows well about Marketing. I persay have attended Marketing classes in my undergrad, and I didn't find it very scientific as well. Sure it is a step by step structured process sometimes , but it is more like Pattern Matching than a scientific method.

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danes75 wrote:
iainshaw wrote: marketing isn't a science, never has been, never will be. 

You don't like the name, OK. 
anyone making a statement like this is a fool... hate to be rude.  marketing is a science, and anyone who's had any REAL experience in the business would know that.
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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Post by thethepapapa » Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:10 am

From experience, all marketing is trial and error, its when you think you know it all that one becomes dangerous.

I've taught at the local Univeristy, and heard students rave about how they will set the world on fire with their book learning.  Few years in the field, and come across them again in the field, and they complain how they wish they had more experience before they set out. The real experts now that they never stop learning, and even with all advance research, market studies, focus groups....that plus or minus one percent 19 times out of 20 will jump up and bite your buttocks.

I don't mind that individual expressing his opinion, he is welcome to it. I may disagree, but none the less, I'd rather engage in conversation with the hope of either of us learning something. See sig below.

Sure do enjoy the thrill of figuring out what makes the sale progress, or what makes a person buy.  Customers are a wonderful enigma...if you think you don't need them, try doing without them for some time.
If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
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