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Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:13 am
by manuman
For whats its worth... when selling into a client there isn't always any requirement to even mention Joomla!...

IMHO.. you need to pitch your own ability rather than Joomla!. After all there are thousands of other people who could also pitch Joomla! but only you can pitch what you would do with it. ;D

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:35 am
by holycow
Post my vote in the 'hate it column'.

You want to find out just how bad it is?  Go into a meeting with paying customers and when they ask 'We need a CMS, what do you recommend' and you reply 'Joomla', I dare you to keep a straight face when you see their expression.

In the end it's only an open source project.  You guys do all the hard work, you have my support what direction you take.  The penguin icon worked out for Linux so what do I know.

There is just no way to use the word Joomla in a serious context.  I will simply fork the project into an available name if I haveto as per licence.

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:01 am
by Troubadour
You want to find out just how bad it is?  Go into a meeting with paying customers and when they ask 'We need a CMS, what do you recommend' and you reply 'Joomla', I dare you to keep a straight face when you see their expression.
See. I don't get this. For the last year I've been going to meetings saying "Mambo". For the last few days I've been saying "Joomla!". I've noticed no difference in reaction.

I really do not see what is "silly" about it. I strongly suspect (with all due respect to the author quoted above) that many of the people complaining about how silly it sounds are quite young and haven't yet realised that the business world cares less about names than it does about abilities.

Again, I point out Google, Yahoo! and the following "Fortune 500" companies:

Berkshire Hathaway
Motorola
Caterpillar
Alcoa
Wyeth
Chubb
Pepsi
UnumProvident
Yum!
Mohawk Industries
Reebok

All of these sound fairly silly to me. But names like Motorola, Pepsi and Reebok are names we're all used to.

It's very immature to laugh at someone because of their name ;)

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:12 am
by aljoomla
Troubadour wrote: It's very immature to laugh at someone because of their name ;)
Amen to that! Especially if the name is so close to one's own name. My name is Jomaa. For me, laughing at Joomla is like a personal attack  :'(

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:18 am
by Troubadour
My name IRL is constantly confused with a traditionally female name, yet I'm taken very seriously in my fields. Among other things I'm a reasonably well-known writer for a national media & post-production magazine and having a silly name has never been any impediment to my career progress!

I don't feel that Joomla! is a silly name anyway. I've come to really like and appreciate it. It's catchy, different and interesting.

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:24 am
by Matrixguru
holycow wrote: Post my vote in the 'hate it column'.

You want to find out just how bad it is?  Go into a meeting with paying customers and when they ask 'We need a CMS, what do you recommend' and you reply 'Joomla', I dare you to keep a straight face when you see their expression.

In the end it's only an open source project.  You guys do all the hard work, you have my support what direction you take.  The penguin icon worked out for Linux so what do I know.

There is just no way to use the word Joomla in a serious context.  I will simply fork the project into an available name if I haveto as per licence.



:)

Hey man if your pitch to your customers to buy, relys on a product name then your in trouble before you start, and mambo was any better ? maybe you should be selling more brand name stuff ?  then your only problem is the price of it......

8)

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:48 am
by Aristocrat
Dude! you gotta polish your self promotion skills. If you're presentation is going to fall apart becuase you think the name is funny I will seek the problem somwhere else. Just like a teenage boy who think girls will avoid him becuase of a different haircut.

Rastin
holycow wrote: Post my vote in the 'hate it column'.

You want to find out just how bad it is?  Go into a meeting with paying customers and when they ask 'We need a CMS, what do you recommend' and you reply 'Joomla', I dare you to keep a straight face when you see their expression.
...

There is just no way to use the word Joomla in a serious context.  I will simply fork the project into an available name if I haveto as per licence.



Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:00 am
by thethepapapa
Women always laugh at my funny hair cut.  They think the 'fag tag' rat tail at the back of my head I've had since the 80's is pretty darn funny.

I noticed many of them quit laughing when I lick my eyebrows.

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:33 am
by holycow
just to clarify, my intention was simply to answer the topic:  "Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?"

fortunately there is no point in arguing about GPL projects - when in doubt fork.

to that end, note my vote:  the brand JOOMLA! will never be used by us. worst brand name ever.

clearly a brand name for a better salesman than i.

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:44 am
by jema
Well I don't like it, but I will live with it.

I do not see any problem at all with presenting the name to clients, at least English ones. The name sounds a bit daft, but so what? If you and your clients perception of web development is going to focus on such trivia, then I think you are doomed anyway.
I cannot see that if you say in a neutral tone of voice that:

"we will be using Joomla, the award winning open source CMS system, that is behind millions of web sites, and has a vast collection of add ons available."

that your client is going to trun around, and talk about how silly the name is.

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:56 am
by manuman
Well for those interested I have two presentations on Monday (tomorrow). One to a school and one to an automotive dealership. I will tell them its Joomla and we'll see what happens... I stand ready to either be laughed outta the office or seal myself a bit of income fo the next month.

I will report back what happens.

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:59 am
by Yojo
I'll preface this by saying I am neither designer nor developer. Very new to Mambo and the OSM world.

Joomla!

It immediately made me think of zoom and bloom..

Then - Presto bingo! Ta daaa!

** pulls big white rabbit out of tiny black hat **

Bit magical  :)

It's easy to say and has a swiftness about it.

When I say the word Joomla, it comes out 'zzhoomlaa'

In terms of world ear - the universal sounds of mmm and ahhh contained within make it just a little bit feel good I think.

Actually altogether - ooo mmm ahhh are pretty appetising sounds.

Joomla!

It's a high touch word which is probably quite appropriate for the high tech it represents.

Fun. Friendly. Zoomy.

Ya. I like it  :-*

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:13 am
by Elpie
manuman wrote: Well for those interested I have two presentations on Monday (tomorrow). One to a school and one to an automotive dealership. I will tell them its Joomla and we'll see what happens... I stand ready to either be laughed outta the office or seal myself a bit of income fo the next month.

I will report back what happens.
I seriously doubt you will be laughed at by either of those :)  Report back when you have made some presentations to some corporate entities, after doing the hard sell on why open source is a viable solution for them, and then added the name.  That is the scenario I find hardest to reconcile.  For the rest of my clients, the name isn't an issue.  Most don't know what open source is, or even what a cms is, and they don't care as long as I can do for them what they want done.  But the corporate market, especially here in NZ, well, I think it is going to be difficult.
I hope I am proven wrong, and will be happy to say so if it happens :)

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:08 pm
by twerp
Nice comments Yojo...
Myself, I WAS freaking out a bit...
Yes, corporate types might not, well, hmmm... Now myself, I'm lovin' the name...
Respect to many many of the comments around here of course.
Who knows?!?!?!?!?!?


Hoping for Joomla 1.0 soon as it's really needed for the flow here.


Best wishes to all

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:40 pm
by Jick
Joomla will grow, just remember that Mambo was a new name once and it had to grow.
We are so used to the name Mambo that whatever name we could come up with will be set next to that and because Joomla is new it will feel different or strange at first.

I don't see any practical difference in telling clients the software is called Joomla! or telling them the software is called Mambo. With both names I need to explain Open Source and CMS.

Personally I love Joomla! because of its nice flow, meaning and happy look.

Arno

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:58 pm
by imagebee
simply my opinion - i think its an excellent name.

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:49 pm
by chris1265
holycow wrote: just to clarify, my intention was simply to answer the topic:  "Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?"

fortunately there is no point in arguing about GPL projects - when in doubt fork.

to that end, note my vote:  the brand JOOMLA! will never be used by us. worst brand name ever.

clearly a brand name for a better salesman than i.
call it holycow cms if you feel better ... but i doubt u will sell more with that brand  :P

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:56 pm
by thethepapapa
Anyone notice the poll up top, and what it's doing?  I've been watching it for a day or so.  In an earlier post, I said "fifty percent of people don't like you on sight, its just the simple fact of coin toss probability'. Assuming that the 'don't know' fall to the Yes side....it teeter-totters around the 50/50 mark.  Gosh I just love real world studies! So much better than stale 'book theory'!

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:07 pm
by chris1265
hmmm
millions of flies like sh**, they can't be wrong

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:39 pm
by thethepapapa
I just love the humor in this place (really, I mean it...that one is funny).

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:09 pm
by pixelsoul
Don't really like it.. it sounds like some foreign food or bug i don't know what it means  ???

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:08 pm
by rdb
So I just submitted my vote for to the question "Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?".

I actually voted "Don't Know" but who cares whether I like the name or not.

I remember when a friend of mine first told me about "Mambo" a couple of years ago, I immediately formed an opinion about it and said to myself that this couldn't be a serious project. (I'm a computer science bigot and my friend is a "noobie" who just likes computers".)

It took me just a few times playing around with Mambo to realize that this CMS was as "serious as a heart attack". Since then I've been a Mambo convert.

So in my opinion names don't matter, BUT "brands" do.

Now look at the following names especially as they relate to IT and tell me how significant the names were to the company's/organization's success. )

What is a "google" ?
What is a "Mozilla" ?
What is a "Yahoo!" ? -- Only answer if you live outside the southern US.
What is a "dell" -- Only if you know the history of Michael Dell does this make sense.
What is a "RedHat" ?

Even if the above names meant something to someone at the time of adoption, to the general uninformed public their meanings can be ambiguous. I still remember people giving me strange looks when telling them about google (this is back in the early days).

We also have customers that say "MOTZILLA" like (Mozzarella cheese) because that's what they associate the name with. They also realize that when the rest of their friends were getting hit IE and Outlook worms and viruses at work, that they never had problems. So believe me they love their MOTZILLA ( and Thunderbird).

I think people are getting confused with liking "a name" vs developing "a brand". I can also give you examples of many companies/organizations that have snazzy names but no longer exist.

The challenge is not to get hung up on a "name" but to spread the Joomla! "brand". A brand stands for something (quality, ease of use, power, simplicity) a name is a bunch of characters arranged together.

Just look around you at things you use at work and at play and evaluate the "names" as if you're seeing them for the first time. Some just have nothing to with the actual product. Still you use the product because you TRUST the "brand".

I've also seen some users complain that they can't promote a product named Joomla! to a customer because they would be laughed out of the conference room. All I have to say is "Please pass those customers on to us as we would love to show them a product that can save them a ton of money" regardless of the name. I can see a decision maker saying, "No, no we absolutely refuse to spend thousands less because your product has a stoopid name".

Maybe these people need to find new professions...

So the challenge is to spread the Joomla! "name" until it becomes synonymous with "a quality product that is full featured, easy to use and supported by a committed community". This is what the "name" Joomla! means, this is what the Joomla! "brand" should stand for.

"All together now!"

PS: Someone mentioned that we should use the name mambo in posts (instead of $ambo or *ambo). The rationale is that when search engines index the mambo keyword, they will point to Joomla! content. Makes sense to me.

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:15 pm
by twerp
Hoover :)
you're so right... time to get it on!

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:13 pm
by rdb
"Nuff said. It's time to get it on!

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:11 am
by spinfx
rdb wrote: "No, no we absolutely refuse to spend thousands less because your product has a stoopid name".

Believe it or not - most decision-makers in Govt (particularly in Aus and NZ) actually *do* spend money on things they needn't simply because their IT sections have them by the b*lls.

It takes a great deal of very hard work to win over the argument for going open source at all, when IT section promulgate lies like "it's not supported" or "it's not supported locally" - of course neither is Micro$oft unless they pay vast amounts of $$ for the support.  My experience has, of course, been that support from OS developers can be as fast as a few minutes and be far more helpful and useful than any paid support.

Sadly, the reality is that as long as things are working, they don't care how much it costs. They never ask their IT sections to find another less expensive way and the IT never suggest anything either because they can take the easy route by paying someone else to take the responsibility of maintaining the status quo.

I remember some years ago in my organisation suggesting using open source for file-sharing and for email when the system we were using went out of production (and hence out of support). Our suggestion would have saved more than $500,000 in licence fees alone, but it was not even considered by IT, who eventually went for a Micro$oft solution (surprise, suprise) and had months of problems with it because (guess what) there was no local support for the product. But that still made no difference - throw some more $$ at it and it will work eventually. Everyone had to upgrade their LAN servers.

So to get the point of this argument - it's probably not so much the Corporate people "per se" (who would, as rdb suggested, not turn down the chance to make more profit by spending lees), it's the whole mindset of Govt who have failed miserably to understand and embrace the concept of open source, And with the protective behaviours of IT sections whispering in their ears, it *will* be a long hard road. Every opportunity (regardless of the arguments that have been put up by supporters in this forum) will be taken to pour scorn and ridicule on a product and every weak point will be exploited to help maintain the simple life.

OK - this might sound a bit jaundiced, but don't criticise these comments unless you have been there - and by that I mean worked *inside* a govt agency and tried to make major changes to its IT culture.

But having said all of that, we have already made that step to an open source web system. But it *has* been a long hard road to get this far.       

Just trying to clarify my stance in this and the other "After waiting days. . . " forums

Cheers all, spinFX  ;)

he he it sure is a funy name but i like it

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:23 am
by bluesaze
well the name sure sounds funny but i think the meaning is more important

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:15 am
by TheSaint
I'm not a big fan of it. A fresh name like Breeze or Pinnacle would have been my first choice. As with the name Mambo, Joomla will grow on us with time. We came for a CMS, not a name. :)

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:23 am
by bluesaze
Hey I dont see why a lot of people seem to find a Joomla a big hoot ...... To be frank when i first heard the name Mambo ..... it definatly sounded funnier. (no offence) ;D

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:30 am
by TheSaint
Perhaps if it means something in your language then you're more forgiving. As an English speaking person it just sounds goofy. Oh well, Mambo sounded funky too, but we lived with it. :D

Re: Do you like "Joomla!" as new project name?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:45 am
by marlar
It's even worse in the Scandinavian languages. Joomla sounds outright ridiculous, is hard to pronunce, even harder to spell and difficult to remember as it has no resemblance to whatsoever. Mambo, on the contrary, is easy to pronounce in probably all languages, sounds a bit exotic but still quite neutral in Scandinavia, is easy to spell and easy to remember because people have heard the word before. If a Dane were to spell Joomla he would write djumla or perhaps jumla.