MiniDoc: An Incomplete Guide to SEO

compass · Post by **compass** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:47 pm

Discussion thread for the FAQ: MiniDoc located at http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic,12880.0.html

multiple keywords - for example if I came up with computers, should I also include computer parts

computer and computer parts would indeed be two different key phrases. Commas are used to seperate them in the tag:

computer, computer parts, more KW here.

Some engines are picky about plural, some are not. I never bother myself. You are only writing 20-30 to give you a diverse list, then you will narrow to 5 or fewer using the tools I linked to, so don't sweat one or two KW that are only slightly different.

tzewei · Post by **tzewei** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:25 pm

great post!!!
thanks compass :D pls continue..

BadBoy · Post by **BadBoy** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:54 am

Brilliant post!

I found it very informative. One of those articles you hope to run into to online, but only do rarely. Thanks for putting it up!

kazisdaman · Post by **kazisdaman** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:19 am

Wow, thanks you are a huge help the community and are doing a great job.

publicinstinct · Post by **publicinstinct** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:07 pm

Awesome post, compass

very informative and very well written. I agree with kazisdaman, you are contributing to the community big time.

Thanx, man. Keep it up.

Cheers

http://www.publicinstinct.co.za
http://www.swissfin.co.za

zezima · Post by **zezima** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:40 pm

very nice article and lots of info

I say you know what you are talking about

But its not easy as 1-2-3-4

Patience and being persistent is main words at end of the day

Any way great thread, thumbs up man

brandondrury · Post by **brandondrury** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:24 am

Overall, a great article, but I have a few bones to pick.

1) I would never waste the time to submit my site to the search engines. This is not how the system works. While, you can get your site spidered by asking, this won't do you any good in rankings. To assume that a site could get rankings based entirely on being spidered suggests that a spider can read your text and determine how good your article is. Spiders have a better way of determining how valuable yoru article or site is. It comes from other links. So focus on getting other links to your site as quickly as possible.

2) There are no mention of directories anymore...which are the first step of promoting a new site.

Brandon

compass · Post by **compass** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:42 pm

I agree:"That’s right, submit them and forget about it. Don’t even think about using one of those “submit your site to 89768 engines for $20” deals."

The best way to get indexed fast is to ask someone nicely to put a link on their site to yours

I don't bother with directories, not worth the time investment imho. DMOZ of course but you need photo's of an editor in an uncompromising position to get in the damn thing!

mophsy · Post by **mophsy** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:18 pm

compass wrote:
The best way to get indexed fast is to ask someone nicely to put a link on their site to yours

ok, but let's not forget about bad neighborhod. PR in google is also measured by the PR of that page, relevancy of that page and if the content of that page is close to yours.

brandondrury · Post by **brandondrury** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:32 pm

Everyone has different opinions of this, but I've found (for me) the best way to get a site started is to submit to the paid authority directories. These directories have clout and the search engines seam to take notice.

It's extremely hard to get another site to link to you if they have never heard of you. Because of this, I say that directories are the way to go at first.

Brandon

compass · Post by **compass** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:01 am

I can usually get indexed in under 2 weeks through the contacts I have.

If you want to get a link, I would imagine a friendly post here would get you one

. It doesn't need to be permenant...

brandondrury · Post by **brandondrury** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:59 am

Is the focus simply getting indexed or is the focu getting enough links to consistenly maintain high rankings?

Brandon

mophsy · Post by **mophsy** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:32 am

brandondrury wrote: Is the focus simply getting indexed or is the focu getting enough links to consistenly maintain high rankings?

Brandon

both

compass · Post by **compass** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:54 pm

The issue with getting indexed is about something know as google's "sandbox"

http://www.compassdesigns.net/resources ... 11sandbox/

I seem to remember somewhere also that you actually have to break into the top 2000 to actually show up, something to do with how Google searches so fast (its not really searching the whole web

)

So after you are indexed (or in the top 2000), you need to start climbing the ranks, and thats where a gazzillion links from theme related sites to yours come in.....

boriaka · Post by **boriaka** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:38 am

All very useful info. I think the one thing I have never thought about is the Sandbox effect.... Hopefully it goes aways soon.

thoeri · Post by **thoeri** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:11 pm

Hi,

there was a great deal og good tips here. I am very interested to know how to "source order" the content with the CSS. My content comes almost last in the file when I click "View Source" in my browser. I also have a huge gap between thext on the middle of that page.

Hoping for some advices here. Cheers,
Thoeri

edtiger · Post by **edtiger** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:22 pm

I am a newby to Joomla. I needed a midrange CMS for some project I am working on and my entry level CMS wasn't cutting it. Consequently, I am really enjoying Joomla even with the bumps and bruises which have accompanied my journey.

However, I am not as new to SEO; and I think the following article on web master world will add greatly to this thread. Read on to learn why compass recommends 100 plus pages for your site, etc, etc, etc.

The article has been archived here: http://www.searchengineworld.com/misc/guide.htm, and the relating forum thread is here:
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/2010.htm. This one is an oldie but goodie.

umek · Post by **umek** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:14 am

hi.

10x for the info here!.

I have a problem ... I've constructed a site and although I've submitted it to google it isn't even listed there. Could this problem be related to the use of joomla? The site is http://www.on-site.advice.com.mt

10x
ian

antonioj · Post by **antonioj** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:57 pm

Brilliant post compass. Thank you, it helped me a lot.
I'm looking to a CMS to reformulate part of a site I have and I found Joomla after reading a lot about other things and I elected it to do this job. But I was exactly affraid of the search engines. This site I have (all in html) is well indexed and some of its pages are on top of google in some keywords my business depends on. Changing it all the time is very time comsuming and I really need a CMS. Anyway I'm affraid that the new site can drop down in the search engines listing after I substitute the old pages.
I was wondering what would be the best: Making the new content with Joomla while not deleting the old pages until the new pages can gain a good ranking, or making the new site in Joomla using another domain I bought some time ago with this in mind?
I would greatly apreciate your expert advise.

Thank you.

Antonio

brandondrury · Post by **brandondrury** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:46 pm

I've constructed a site and although I've submitted it to google it isn't even listed there.

That's because submitting a site to Google is a total waste of time in almost all cases. You have to remember that submitting your site yourself is like voting for yourself to Google (more or less). Yes, Google will come to your site, but why should Google care about your site if you are the only one voting for it. Get some votes from a 3rd party and Google might pay attention. In other words, I'd go straight to the directories immediately. If you have a decent budget there are a number of high quality directories that will help get you into Google. However, if you don't have a budget, there are still a number of free directories that are worth the time.

You also have to remember that if your keywords are remotely competitive, age of the links is extremely important. In other words, the sandbox is a real issue for many sites and is probably effecting yours as well.

I was wondering what would be the best: Making the new content with Joomla while not deleting the old pages until the new pages can gain a good ranking, or making the new site in Joomla using another domain I bought some time ago with this in mind?

I've faced this situation before as well. It's not an easy decision. Of course, Google likes new pages (as long as they are SEO friendly). So changing to a new system shouldn't hurt a bit. Unless your kids are going to starve, I wouldn't worry too much about making the switch. Jump in head first. I've been a little too cautious before and kept 10 or so html pages and it just made it a pain to integrate with CMS (this was before I switched to Joomla). The fact that Joomla is so much easier to update will benefit you much better in long run. Since the links coming to your site are not going anywhere, it stands to reason that your site should stay the same.

Keep in mind that you need to keep your titles the same (or better). If you remove a keyword from your title, you will lose ranking in that title. I have on many occassions.

Brandon

srijit · Post by **srijit** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:29 am

great artice compass

thanks for the info

perko · Post by **perko** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:13 pm

here is a good tip for page rank I've just discovered...

How to be ranked by PR7 site .... register an ICQ account, put your webpage url in user details and upload details to web.

salute

brandondrury · Post by **brandondrury** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:18 pm

I'm not sure I fully understand.

Where do you "upload" your ICQ account settings?

Are you referring to simply putting your link in a profile?

Brandon

perko · Post by **perko** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:40 pm

yes ... it depend of client you use (Miranda Trillian ICQ), I use miranda it has option to cooperatre with server... I think ICQ do it automaticly

here is an screen shot:

tmaiaroto · Post by **tmaiaroto** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:43 am

Very cool and good to know about the ICQ PR.

Submitting press releases is also a REAL good way of getting backlinks off high PR sites.

Also news feed syndication sites. Due to the nature of Joomla! and how simple it is to setup RSS feeds, many of us use them. So why not submit them and use them to help your rank too?

syndica8.com ? i think and some other sites too. prleap.com for press releases.

Note, I've had my site/domain registered and running for under 2 months and I'm ranking on search engines quite well. I'm in the top10 on google for my targeted terms. I've dominated MSN.

Sandbox schmandbox and waiting period my butt. I believed it all at first because my other site isn't even indexed! But I played by the book and did everything right for my current site...and thanks to the help of Joomla! it's well on it's way. I think there is a sandbox and it's for sites that artifically try to get listed..they spot it and keep you waiting for months. If you just have patience and kinda ignore everything I think you'll have more success. BUT you need good content and descriptions are also important.

Next on my list is Yahoo..and I'm surprised I got picked up by Google before Yahoo!!!

SO that said, when will Joomla! allow meta descriptions for main categories and sections???? Any hack or add-on to generate another variable that gets optionally loaded? Just like the current meta info gets appended... only call it "meta2" or something and have it on the section/category creation/edit page right under all the menu options?

I don't know, I don't know the ins and outs of Joomla!'s structure so I couldn't begin to do this.. I can only speculate on theories and "how" something might be done.

sevenhelmets · Post by **sevenhelmets** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:56 am

I presume the "incomplete" part refers to the fact that Part 1 seems to be missing?!

I'm guessing that's on purpose though right?!

compass · Post by **compass** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:31 pm

That and there is no complete guide to SEO, its endless!

sevenhelmets · Post by **sevenhelmets** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:56 pm

So true, so true.

confitz · Post by **confitz** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:22 am

thoeri wrote: Hi,

there was a great deal og good tips here. I am very interested to know how to "source order" the content with the CSS. My content comes almost last in the file when I click "View Source" in my browser. I also have a huge gap between thext on the middle of that page.

Hoping for some advices here. Cheers,
Thoeri

Hi I would like to know more about "source order" aswell. I'm finding joomla very difficult to optimise for some of the standard onpage techniques for example: Density, Title, Link, Alt, KW, Desc, Bold & Header Tags.
I spidered my joomla site using IBP/Aerelis a program designed for SEO (very good I might add. It has googlebot, msnbot etc built in). What I found was that the spider wasn't picking up the middle column content whatsoever! It was only picking up the haed data and the top left module only!
Now it makes optimising for headertags (joomla assigns H3 tags to the modules only and not the content headings which is where you want them), keywords/density, alt and bold pointless.
So I spidered ijoomla.com and got a much much better result for the content although there module positions all had H3 tags aswell. Now I think it's because of the "magazine component" the spider is picking up on the content.

Also hoping for some advice
Cheers
Conrad

compass · Post by **compass** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:00 pm

I also have a couple of tutorials on my site about creating source ordered templates. Don't worry about whitespace (big gaps), engines ignore that...

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