The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

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The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by mattbaylor » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:59 am

Discuss the blog post about the functional design document here.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wPV ... sp=sharing
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by TheMuffinMan » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:15 am

Hi,

awesome draft!

For 3.3.2.3 I propose 2 additions:

- Randomly featuring items on top (let's say 2 in a row, not just new ones) in each category item view
- When a Category item view has 20 or more items, display a 2-column layout

Reason: Both should be helping to promote listings to have a chance of getting more attention in crowded categories.

[EDIT]

Also please add something about the default order of listings.

Proposing a default order by freshness (last updated) where only 2-3 updates a month are relevant for the default order. Reason: There is sometimes way too much competition for best ranked places.

This makes sense as in the draft "3.4.1 Review fields" you can turn off some rating relevant slots and this would affect the overall ranking for listings in a category if some have all fields enabled and some don't.

[EDIT 2]

By the way, what about the review promotion text? I guess this wouldn't be very handy with having up to 5 review areas:
If you use [EXTENSION NAME], please post 5 ratings and 5 reviews in the Joomla! Extensions Directory
Regards,
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Last edited by TheMuffinMan on Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:42 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by ot2sen » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:18 am

Impressive document covering about all aspect of community and developer wishes during the years.

Well done :)

Looks like JED grown up will be a great tool.

Note: In sec 2.5 (user data import) and 3.7 (user view) I couldn't see the Favourites mentioned. Would be nice to bring them over and be able to still add new favourites.
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by paulsimonrough » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:05 pm

The JED team seems to be looking for the magic formula in which to order the listings, I don't think there is one and it should be left to the end user.

Much like when using ebay you can sort the results by cheapest, buy it now etc, the user should be able to sort the listings by recently updated, new listings, free/commercial the default order should simply be the order in which they were added to the JED and leave it the end user to decide the order in which they think is most important, it would also save a lot of headache for the JED team...
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by TheMuffinMan » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:18 pm

Hi paulsimonrough,

sure ebay does that, but even them have a default order.

Regards,
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by mattbaylor » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:45 am

TheMuffinMan wrote:
This makes sense as in the draft "3.4.1 Review fields" you can turn off some rating relevant slots and this would affect the overall ranking for listings in a category if some have all fields enabled and some don't.
The functionality of disabling of fields was added because a field may only be relevant for a paid extension and not a free extension.


TheMuffinMan wrote:
By the way, what about the review promotion text? I guess this wouldn't be very handy with having up to 5 review areas:
Promotional text has been removed from the draft ToS completely.
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by mattbaylor » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:49 am

ot2sen wrote:
Note: In sec 2.5 (user data import) and 3.7 (user view) I couldn't see the Favourites mentioned. Would be nice to bring them over and be able to still add new favourites.
We had removed the favorites because most were just used by developers trying to gain an edge. If we added it back it would most likely just be a users profile type function where you could save favorites and it would only be viewable by you, the user.
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by mattbaylor » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:51 am

paulsimonrough wrote:The JED team seems to be looking for the magic formula in which to order the listings, I don't think there is one and it should be left to the end user.

Much like when using ebay you can sort the results by cheapest, buy it now etc, the user should be able to sort the listings by recently updated, new listings, free/commercial the default order should simply be the order in which they were added to the JED and leave it the end user to decide the order in which they think is most important, it would also save a lot of headache for the JED team...
TheMuffinMan is correct in saying there has to be a default order however the plan is to add filters so users can sort them they way they want.
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by ot2sen » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:57 pm

mattbaylor wrote:
ot2sen wrote:
Note: In sec 2.5 (user data import) and 3.7 (user view) I couldn't see the Favourites mentioned. Would be nice to bring them over and be able to still add new favourites.
We had removed the favorites because most were just used by developers trying to gain an edge. If we added it back it would most likely just be a users profile type function where you could save favorites and it would only be viewable by you, the user.
Given the amount of extensions, then from a user point of view it is a valuable feature to be able to collect your own favourites. Would be a pity if this is removed.
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by David-Andrew » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:22 am

Wow, a lot of work must have gone into this! Super!

My comments will be based on my perspective as a commercial developer. I would like to level the playing field so free and commercial listings are more equal. Now, there are a few options in the JED that might give free listings an advantage, when being "free" is already advantage enough IMO.

3.1.2
- Price, there should be an explanation/tooltip. Because in my case (or NoNumber or Akeeba) would you see "One Time". No, because you dont get support or updates after the first year without renewing. Would you say "Annual"? No, because you are not required to renew, and saying "Annual" would scare away people that think they will be buying to a automatic annual subscription, which would not be correct.

Maybe add a description box with 144 chars limit where developers can enter their business modal (or dropdown where they can select). I would add the text you can also find close to my buy now buttons "Including one year of personal support and updates, and the unencrypted extension for use on unlimited sites" see
http://www.chillcreations.com/joomla-ex ... f-invoices

- Download URL, I would suggest to hide this one for paid listings, as you dont want them to see a page where they cant actually download right away (as a commercial dev). You want them to view support (ask presale questions) or view the product page (so they can learn about the extension and later buy), not go to the downloads to then navigate around and find the product page. One of the most visited pages on my site is the ccNewsletter downloads, because people come from the JED directly to the downloads, then navigate back to Extensions > ccNewsletter. Not user friendly. So, if they can't immediatately download (require registration to download), dont show the download link.
http://www.chillcreations.com/downloads/ccnewsletter

- Support Forum URL, change to Support URL as developers might choose to not have a forum but a ticket system, and "Support" is more general

- License page on your site: should this not always be required, as all listings should be GPL, free or paid? And some "free" listings have "Pro" versions as a business model.

- Require registration to download, I would not mind if it would be removed completely.. Does "subscribe to our newsletter" also fall under "registration". Or could it be hidden for commercial listings (you always need to register/order to get it, right)?

- Use Joomla! Updater, change to "Built-in updater" or similair. Most commercial devs to not use the Joomla! updater because it does not support commercial extensions well, so now it looks like a pro for free listings, when commercial listings might have implemented their own update system. What does the end-user want, Joomla! updates? No! They want "easy updates". So if the developer implemented ANY update system, they should be able to select that as it shows a convienence for the end-user.

- At the bottom of description add button "Read more on developers website" which is the same URL as "Project homepage".

- Image: can they be bigger then they are now, showing more detail? Also add abaility to add embed code for [youtube] videos.

3.1.3
Why deleted when changing discribution model? Why not only remove all reviews?

3.2.2.3
It would be better to email after the URLs dont work for two days. In that way you dont get people working, mails sent etc if there is a network disturbance or short downtime.

3.4 Reviews
Love the new ideas for reviews!!
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by ssv445 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:40 pm

24 hours grace time for non-working update URL is too less. You should wait for at least 3 days. (Ideally Should be 7 days).
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by WP4J » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:22 pm

ssv445 wrote:24 hours grace time for non-working update URL is too less. You should wait for at least 3 days. (Ideally Should be 7 days).
I agree, that is a bit harsh because servers can go down and it can take more than 24 hours to get it back up or switch hosts.
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by mattbaylor » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:52 pm

The 24 hour rule will not change. The goal is a good user experience and dead links are not a good user experience.

If a link is found to be bad it will send a notice so you have time to deal with it.

If it ends up getting unpublished because of a dead link it will continue to check the link every 24 hours to see if it's fixed or if you replace it, it will sense the change and act accordingly.

@David
- Download URL Why can't you point to a product page with product info with a buy button? As long as your not pointing to a list of extensions it's fine. In either case (Free/Paid) any form of 'Download' is misleading text because a very small percentage of Free listings actually point directly to a zip file.

-3.1.3 Why keep them?
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by ssv445 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:36 am

The 24 hour rule will not change. The goal is a good user experience and dead links are not a good user experience.
I think if an update URL, which will only update few information, goes dead for any particular reason, you should NOT be in hurry to unpublish the extension. You should give proper time to admin to resolve it.
- It might be a DNS ditch which can take time
- It might be an hacking attempt, which will take enough time
- It might be server configuration issue
- It might be network outage issue

All in all, commercial extension does not have problem with this, but free extension does not take concerns at this scale.

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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by David-Andrew » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:09 am

URL downtime: I was just advising it because I think it will give you more work. So there is a network disturbance or short downtime, the JED sends that e-mail. The developer checks, all is online. Then he submits a ticket to you "he, why did you mail me, its all online?". If you waited two days (two failed checks) 99% of those issues would not cause anyone any time. Just my 2 cents.

Download URL: I believe in the past (the other Matt) was very clear that it should always point to a download location, not a product page. So you are saying policy about this has changed, ok super! But if the download button is not pointing to a download page in most cases even for free listings, as you are telling us now, we might need to reconsider having a download button at all, as you mentioned, its misleading. And, I think would would be better to direct people to a product page in all cases, so they can be more informed before they just download everything, install and then only find out it was not what they where looking for.

3.1.3: to save the JED team and developers time, so they dont have to completely re-add an existing listing with no changes except business model and to save the JED team from having to review a new (identical) submission again.

And thanks for getting back to us :-)
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by mattbaylor » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:28 pm

David-Andrew wrote:URL downtime: I was just advising it because I think it will give you more work. So there is a network disturbance or short downtime, the JED sends that e-mail. The developer checks, all is online. Then he submits a ticket to you "he, why did you mail me, its all online?". If you waited two days (two failed checks) 99% of those issues would not cause anyone any time. Just my 2 cents.
It will all be automated and there won't be a need for any support tickets. System finds a bad link, sends an email, if it's still bad in 24 hours it gets unpublished.

David-Andrew wrote: 3.1.3: to save the JED team and developers time, so they dont have to completely re-add an existing listing with no changes except business model and to save the JED team from having to review a new (identical) submission again.
There may be some confusion. It will only remove the reviews, not the entire listing. There won't be a need to re-add anything.
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by David-Andrew » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:55 pm

Ok, all is clear to me now :-)
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by joomexcellence » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:07 am

mattbaylor wrote:
ot2sen wrote: We had removed the favorites because most were just used by developers trying to gain an edge. If we added it back it would most likely just be a users profile type function where you could save favorites and it would only be viewable by you, the user.
Sad to see that "Favorites" feature removed, which basically ruins a good thing for the many because of the actions of the few. Everyone is penalized instead of the few who were the abused the feature.

Q: Is it possible to block developers from 'Favoriting' their own extensions.

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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by joomexcellence » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:13 am

I suggest the stars feature be expanded beyond an overall (non-detailed) rating to include main things feature like:
- Documentation
- Support

This way developers are acknowledged and encouraged or exposed for their excellent or poor Documentation and Support.

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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by joomexcellence » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:18 am

I have found that many developers are not updating the current version number (newer version on heir download pages) and that their extension is now 3 ready (shows only 2.5 on JED but 2.5 and 3.0 on their download page).

I have also found that some extensions would be more accurately placed in another category. For some developers English is not their first language. Many great extension are being missed because they are not in the best category.

Wish there was an easy way to send the developer a short message to remind them to update, suggest a better category...

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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by WP4J » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:27 pm

joomexcellence wrote:
Wish there was an easy way to send the developer a short message to remind them to update, suggest a better category...
Why not contact them from their site?
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by WP4J » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:30 pm

joomexcellence wrote:I suggest the stars feature be expanded beyond an overall (non-detailed) rating to include main things feature like:
- Documentation
- Support

This way developers are acknowledged and encouraged or exposed for their excellent or poor Documentation and Support.
I have just about finished developing such a ratings extension that allows for weighted multiple criteria. This would be perfect for the JED - and if interested I would appreciate any feedback in regards to features that the JED Team would like included in the extension.

It currently works as a module that is included on the page with the admin being able to set unlimited criteria with each criteria having a percentage weight of the overall total.

Includes an editors rating and users rating each set with ACL so the Editor can rate the content separately to users. Will also have a best rated module as well. It is pretty simple at the moment, but does what it needs in a very efficient matter - db only touched on update with output fully cached, things like that.

Anyways the JED Team is welcome to submit requirements, etc and I will do my best to get them in there (if interested of course).
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by joomexcellence » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:47 am

WP4J wrote:
joomexcellence wrote: Wish there was an easy way to send the developer a short message to remind them to update, suggest a better category...
Why not contact them from their site?
Yes, of course that is an options. As you have probably experienced actually doing that is not as easy as just click > click > type > send. My experience is that many 'developers' are not so concerned how easy or even purposefully make it hard for people to contact them, so yet often times for me it is more like: click > click > click > search around to finally determine there is no contact listed info listed > click forum > create forum account > click on forum verify email > search around forum for where to properly post > post to forum

I like most people prefer simple, easy and fast.
I also think about beginners. So many thing get missed, delayed, skipped... because the developers think from a developers mindset and not a beginners mindset!

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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by joomexcellence » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:49 am

WP4J wrote:
joomexcellence wrote:I suggest the stars feature be expanded beyond an overall (non-detailed) rating to include main things feature like:
- Documentation
- Support

This way developers are acknowledged and encouraged or exposed for their excellent or poor Documentation and Support.
I have just about finished developing such a ratings extension that allows for weighted multiple criteria. This would be perfect for the JED - and if interested I would appreciate any feedback in regards to features that the JED Team would like included in the extension.

It currently works as a module that is included on the page with the admin being able to set unlimited criteria with each criteria having a percentage weight of the overall total.

Includes an editors rating and users rating each set with ACL so the Editor can rate the content separately to users. Will also have a best rated module as well. It is pretty simple at the moment, but does what it needs in a very efficient matter - db only touched on update with output fully cached, things like that.

Anyways the JED Team is welcome to submit requirements, etc and I will do my best to get them in there (if interested of course).
Bravo!
Looking forward to it!

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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by ssv445 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:26 am

I request you to add a feature, so developer can communicate to reviewer and vice-versa at JED. This communication should be recorded and can be checked on complains of misuse.
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by stutteringp0et » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:47 pm

I'd like there to be a record of rejected reviews along with the reason. There are several of my extensions that (it seems) have about half of their reviews rejected.
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by mattbaylor » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:49 pm

stutteringp0et wrote:I'd like there to be a record of rejected reviews along with the reason. There are several of my extensions that (it seems) have about half of their reviews rejected.
Reviews will no longer be screened so there's no need.
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by stutteringp0et » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:15 am

Reviews will no longer be screened so there's no need.
YAY! That has been driving me mad!
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by TheMuffinMan » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:03 pm

Hi,

no longer be screened doesn't exclude the ability to report them, right? I ask because we still have some blackmailers and other reportable cases around. And in these cases a post-review screening would be great (after reporting).

Another thing not talked about here is the layout/design of the new JED, will it be redesigned, too or stick with the current design/layout?

Regards,
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Re: The JED 3.0 Functional Design Document

Post by mattbaylor » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:09 pm

TheMuffinMan wrote: doesn't exclude the ability to report them, right?
See section 3.4.3
TheMuffinMan wrote:Another thing not talked about here is the layout/design of the new JED, will it be redesigned, too or stick with the current design/layout?
That's because this is about function, not layout/design. We will cross that bridge when we get to it.


Regards,
Markus[/quote]
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