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dattard
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JED issues?

Post by dattard » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:45 am

Is it just me or is the JED having issues?

I got a notice that two of my listings have broken links and will be unpublished.

I checked them and they are fine. So I tried to login and open a support ticket.

Discovered my password is not matching. Weird. I don't remember changing it.

Tried to reset my password, cannot, captcha is not visible and obviously cannot reset the password.
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Re: JED issues?

Post by toivo » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:51 am

Managed to log in all right and access the new Ticketing System. Only the latest ticket, submitted in May, had been migrated.

Similar to the password reset page, the registration page shows captcha both as a required field and optional but one cannot select anything:
Captcha * (optional)
Toivo Talikka, Global Moderator

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Re: JED issues?

Post by anibal_sanchez » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:52 am

Hi, Thanks for reporting.

- Captcha: There was an issue in the CSP headers. I've just fixed it. Please, try again.

- Tickets: We are using a new ticketing system: https://extensions.joomla.org/support/support-tickets/

- Link Checker: The links must return a 20x or 30x status code. Otherwise, something odd is happening.

You can manually check the links in PHP command line with:

Code: Select all

php -a
print_r(get_headers('https://www.the-extension-domain.com/the-extension-page-link.html'));
Best Regards
@anibal_sanchez - http://blog.anibalhsanchez.com

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dattard
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Re: JED issues?

Post by dattard » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:38 am

Thanks for fixing that promptly, I'll have a look.

The current address returns a 301, so it should work ok

EDIT: I updated the listing to the new URL, shouldn't have to submit a support ticket right?

David
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Re: JED issues?

Post by anibal_sanchez » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:08 pm

If the extension is published, then there is no need to send a new ticket. The process will recheck the Links automatically.

Take into account that it is better if the links go directly to the pages (200 status code).

30x redirections are Ok, but it is better if all links go directly to the page. 30x require more processing and they can be blocked by timeouts, or other networking issues.

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Re: JED issues?

Post by dattard » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:44 pm

Awesome thanks, I'll keep an eye out.
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Re: JED issues?

Post by anibal_sanchez » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:47 pm

Hi,

If the extension is published, there is no need to send a ticket.

Additionally, I'm also working on an update to reduce the false positives of redirections / timeouts.

Best Regards
@anibal_sanchez - http://blog.anibalhsanchez.com

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Re: JED issues?

Post by Webdongle » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:05 pm

anibal_sanchez wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:52 am
...
- Link Checker: The links must return a 20x or 30x status code. Otherwise, something odd is happening.
...
When I reported a broken link for an extension I was told it was a commercial extension. And was given blurb about JED not getting evolved in commercial disputes.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: JED issues?

Post by sozzled » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:32 am

dattard wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:45 am
Is it just me or is the JED having issues?

I got a notice that two of my listings have broken links and will be unpublished.

I checked them and they are fine.
No, it is not "just you". I have a similar story (see viewtopic.php?f=262&t=980747). As it transpires, it's the result of some automated link checking algorithm that returns a number of false positives. This, in turn, means that extension developers who use the JED waste a lot of their time checking links and then creating job tickets.

In turn, this adds to the workload of the two JED support team members who have to sift through these job tickets. I understand that the additional workload for JED support team members has increased significantly to the point that they now spend an extra 3 hours a week dealing with the mess. It doesn't sound like a very enjoyable job or a useful skill to write on one's resume.

anibal_sanchez wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:08 pm
If the extension is published, then there is no need to send a new ticket. The process will recheck the Links automatically.
The real question here is why is the JED system "checking" links at all? What is the JED team's role in going after so-called "broken links" (and what benefit is there to developers and JED team members in having to deal with system-generated "reports"? In my opinion this is a detraction from the primary role of the JED: the JED is not responsible for the accuracy of information in product listings.

In my opinion this is a waste of time and an embarrassment. Please disable the "automatic link checking" algorithm and let's consider what is the objective and how best to achieve it. Thanks. :)
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Re: JED issues?

Post by Webdongle » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:47 am

sozzled wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:32 am
... The real question here is why is the JED system "checking" links at all? What is the JED team's role in going after so-called "broken links" ...
Many of us users spend time looking at reviews and descriptions of extensions. But if some of those extensions have broken links then that is time wasted looking at extensions that can't be downloaded.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.

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Re: JED issues?

Post by sozzled » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:53 am

@Webdongle: I don't have a problem if people look at JED listings and report "broken links" (although there may be quite innocent reasons why some URLs appear to be broken). What I object to is the additional, wasted, unnecessary effort created by the automated link checker. This adds extra workload for developers and extra workload on the JED team members.

I do not envy the JED team members their task. It's mind-numbingly boring, tedious, thankless work. If I could do it, I would buy each of the two JED support team members a beer each as a way of saying thank you. But I would not waste one second of my time doing what they've been asked to do. No way!

As for the "reason(s)" why this automated link checking exists, I don't believe the case has been made to support this waste of everyone's time. If people find "broken links" they can report them (or try to report them); that approach has worked in the past and I see no reason to change it.
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
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Re: JED issues?

Post by Webdongle » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:21 am

sozzled wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:53 am
@Webdongle: I don't have a problem if people look at JED listings and report "broken links" (although there may be quite innocent reasons why some URLs appear to be broken). What I object to is the additional, wasted, unnecessary effort created by the automated link checker. ...
But if the auto link checker reports broken links and those extensions are removed then users don't waste time looking at extensions that can't be downloaded.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.

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Re: JED issues?

Post by sozzled » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:05 am

I'm sorry, @Webdongle, but you have no understanding of the issue. What's the benefit of a system that falsely accuses people who have their products listed as having "broken links" when they aren't broken? And what's the "problem" if people, using the JED, "discover" these "broken links", anyway?

And what's the size of the problem? And who says these "broken links" are such a problem? And why should you care so much? I'm done with this rubbish. >:(
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Re: JED issues?

Post by Webdongle » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:11 pm

I do have understanding of the issue. I am saying fix the auto system not remove it. I am saying there is a need for it not that it.

It is you who doesn't understand why it is needed.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.

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I don't understand why the JED needs an automated broken link checking system

Post by sozzled » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:40 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:11 pm
It is you who doesn't understand why it is needed.
You are absolutely right! 8)
https://www.kuneze.com/blog
“If you think I’m wrong then say, ‘I think you’re wrong.’ If you say ‘You’re wrong!’, how do you know?” :)

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Re: JED issues?

Post by Webdongle » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:04 pm

OK I will try and explain. Those of us (like me) who look through the extensions waste a lot of time reading descriptions only to find out that the download link is broken. Having the broken links identified and then the extension removed prevents us users a lot of time. I do see however that false positives could be a problem if the extensions are auto unpublished instead of manually checked.
http://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/
https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results": Albert Einstein.

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Re: I don't understand why the JED needs an automated broken link checking system

Post by sozzled » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:30 pm

I agree with you, @Webdongle, that you do not like wasting your time reading JED product listings only to discover that a link in that listing may be broken. By the same token, I do not like wasting my time chasing after reports (whether they're generated by a 'bot or by a human) of alleged irregularities with material I have submitted to the JED and, further, the JED support team members do not like wasting their time dealing with job tickets arising from those matters.

The JED terms of service (see Section 11) are very clear about the JED's limited liability in relation to the accuracy of JED content:
The listings and reviews listed in the JED have been submitted by the community and are for general informational purposes only. Listings do not constitute or imply endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by Joomla or OSM.

Because the listings and reviews are provided by others, Joomla, OSM, and the JED team cannot be held liable for accuracy of the information. Visitors wishing to verify that the information is correct should contact the parties responsible for creating the content of the resource.
If this is not plain English enough, let me put it more simply: if you think there's a problem, report it. Don't expect the JED team to do all your work for you! 8)

Why should the JED change this policy? Are you suggesting that the JED should be held accountable or "liable for accuracy of information"? ???

The manual system for reporting inaccuracies, irregularities or non-compliance with the JED's terms of service has been in place for the entire time that the JED has existed. It's worked well in the past and continues to work if people are prepared to use it. If that's not to your liking then we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Re: JED issues?

Post by deleted user » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:25 am

For some reason, people seem to put way too much weight on having a listing on the Joomla Extensions Directory. Like it's a badge of honor or something. And for some reason, historically the JED has had over-reaching policies on what links are allowed, what text is displayed on those pages, and what text is displayed on other pages listed on the website. There was once upon a time that you couldn't link from the JED to a website that included code released under a license that wasn't the GPL, luckily some asininely stupid rules seem to have been relaxed over the years.

If you want JED to be meaningful, then about 85% of the automated garbage needs to go away, and a higher bar to entry needs to be enforced. Seriously, you want the site to be filled with quality products, but to get listed you have to provide a link that has a 200 response (I think I saw at one point the auto link checker chokes on 30x responses, and heaven forbid your site has a 500 response when the cron runs), a bunch of files with a GPL license and a "defined or die"... err, "defined or exit" (because 2020 PC terms)... check, and that's about it. There has never, in at least the 10 years I've been stuck in these parts, been any form of human related quality assurance to help developers and instead way too much time is spent on trying to write more automated tools to make sure variables are defined in the right spot in the right file.

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Re: JED "checking" overreach

Post by sozzled » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:14 am

Spot on, @mbabker. +1
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