May I re-package Joomla with a commercial component?

[freeman]

Hi and sorry if I am not in the right forum...

but I just couldn't find the best place to post this question.
Here in the dev-corner seemed to be the best place.

So here's the situation:
We developed a component for Joomla which we'll sell for a small price.
Nevertheless we think it would be great to have a complete install package for our customers that includes our component beeing a part  of the initial installation.

I was wondering if that's in line with your license?

May we repackage Joomla with our component and provide that to our customers?
I have seem someone doing that with a community-solution, but am not sure about it when it comes to commercial components.


I'd very much appreciate your feedback.

Norman

[brian]

simple answer is no. for a more complex answer see http://www.fsf.org

[freeman]

Hi brian,

thanks for the quick answer.
The link to fsf didn't help me though.

I hope I did not explain it the wrong way: I do not want to sell a package that includes the joomla code!
The customer purchases the component as is.

The re-packaging is just a specail service for customers who need it.

Though that may not change the answer, it's worth a try, eh?

have a great day,
Norman

[brian]

you can't bundle joomla with your commercial component but you could offer a commercial service to integrate them for the cent. as long as you don't distribute a bundle.

[active_innovation]

you can't bundle joomla with your commercial component but you could offer a commercial service to integrate them for the cent. as long as you don't distribute a bundle.

I am not sure if this is totally the case;

quoted below is the GNU General Public License:

"The licenses for most software are designed to take away your freedom to share and change it. By contrast, the GNU General Public License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change free software--to make sure the software is free for all its users. This General Public License applies to most of the Free Software Foundation's software and to any other program whose authors commit to using it. (Some other Free Software Foundation software is covered by the GNU Lesser General Public License instead.) You can apply it to your programs, too.

When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for this service if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things. ....."

This actually protects the distribution of the FREE software and can not actually 'pin it down' to a monopoly, the rest of the GNU General Public License does discuss the attempt of patenting the software which is not permissible.

Therefore you are permitted to sell the software if you choose to with the additional component, however clarity should be provided ethically about what the 'client' is buying into; however it is not neccessary to do so.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

The GNU General Public License can be found here http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html#SEC1 

[brian]

you are wrong if the commercial app you are bundling with joomla is not gpl

[freeman]

alright.

thanks for the discussion!

We will then just have the option to offer installation as a custom service, i think.

Thanks agaiN!

Norman

[active_innovation]

you are wrong if the commercial app you are bundling with joomla is not gpl

I guess that makes sense.  Funny thing legalities, but they are there for a resaon.

[Asphyx]

LOL This is what I hate about law and lawyers....

The law says you can't do it unless you describe what you actually doing differently....

And it really makes no sense either way!
i.e.

You can't bundle it with a commercial product even if there is no charge for the extra bundling from the price of the component alone....
But you can bundle it and charge even MORE for it if you call it an install!

pre-install the component, pack it up, create an install file that inserts the database and technically you are not breaking any rules.

the semantics of law! LOL

[wdaniels]

The law says you can't do it unless you describe what you actually doing differently....

I think it's less a case of legal semantics than the express intention of the GPL, as described in the GNU FAQ:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.htm ... tarySystem

The important point is that it needs to be abundantly clear to any customers that they are paying for your component and not for Joomla! and that the two things are separate enough that people know which is which.  Basically, so long as there is no ambiguity or implication that any part of Joomla! is part of the commercial package then you should be OK.

Whether or not the separation of the commercial functionality as a component within Joomla! is sufficient by itself to honor the terms of the GPL is perhaps debatable and is in my view the crux of the matter.  I'm not a lawyer either but by my interpretation of the license and accepted practices, if you make very obvious efforts to ensure that there is no question about the free status of Joomla! and the extent to which it comprises the distribution, you should be able to prepackage your component with a distribution of Joomla!

Ultimately, it is the copyright holder who has the power to enforce the GPL against you (in this case Open Source Matters I believe) and if I were you I'd contact OSM directly and try to reach some accord that your intentions comply with their understanding of the license and the spirit of the Joomla! project.

Best of luck in any case...

[wdaniels]

Of course if your component relies upon any 'hacks' to Joomla! or other modification of the GPL'd source code it might be difficult to argue that it constitutes a "separate work" under Section 2 of the license, and there I think things could get messy.

[jiggliemon]

what about the Virtumart Joomla package?

Is that because it's a free component?

[digitaldentist]

Of course if your component relies upon any 'hacks' to Joomla! or other modification of the GPL'd source code it might be difficult to argue that it constitutes a "separate work" under Section 2 of the license, and there I think things could get messy.

there are many "comercial products", including joomla that are repacked Open-source (GPL) software for sale
you can not sell joomla as your own product
you can not claim joomla is your own product
joomla cant claim its truely discint (see mambo code simularities)

what you can do is
hook functionality (alter functions in memory, alter memory , input or output)
you can as above , offer your services (install /support)
you can offer an add-on that does (alter functions in memory, alters input or output)

You could package your product as
Requires Joomla .X installed
This forces the purchaser to install joomla
*you can provide that as a service
Next you can install your program
(offering source code of modified items is a good out)
finally, even if you edit every single file of joomla, replace every core file, you could offer the complete unmodified and modified source