RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by Webdongle » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:49 pm

masterchief wrote:@Webdongle, the answer was "they just aren't" (Marijke answered that only the final results are made public). Take it or leave it but it is what it is. ...
Like I said ... I'm not overly interested in seeing such a list ... my point is that the failure to make such a list is a big red button to many Joomla users.

masterchief wrote:... For what it's worth, my experience with NPO's is the nominations are a part of the public record as are the final count of the votes (but not who voted for whom). I'd encourage OSM to look at such a policy in the future as they are finding a new "norm" because it helps with transparency. ...
Agreed

masterchief wrote:... who of us as contributors have done a perfect job of contributing ...
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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by NivF007 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:57 pm

@ Brian
One thing that I have always felt important is that becoming a OSM member (for lack of a better word) is based on skills and talents and not based on a popularity contest. In addition as serving on OSM is a time consuming and onerous task I believe it is essential that OSM do take into consideration the balance of the team and the ability to work together. That is something I have 100% trust that OSM can do and have done.
With a world of respect, admiration and gratitude to you Brian, I honestly think your 'baby' has grown up and it's time to cut the umbilical cord.

What you folks and have done is a phenomena - a ball set in motion from which so many of us benefit from.

However, the call had gone out years ago for people around the world to contribute and to dedicate themselves to OSM and the project.

What you are saying is that you don't have full confidence in the community that you've asked to contribute, and whom have responded - and who ought to have a say in the direction and the future of OSM and Joomla!

It's time to evolve - to move forward - the Joomla! Project and brand has it's own life - it does not need to coddled by it's parents any longer.

N

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by brian » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:33 pm

That is absolutely NOT what I am saying. Please don't put words in my mouth.
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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by NivF007 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:37 pm

One thing that I have always felt important is that becoming a OSM member (for lack of a better word) is based on skills and talents and not based on a popularity contest.
Well perhaps you can clarify what you are referring to as a 'popularity contest.'

Do you support that OSM Directors should be elected democratically by the community stakeholders?

Best,

N

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by NivF007 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:41 pm

Let me be a bit more clear on the above - "by the contributors as opposed to a small group of people who are currently in power?"

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by montano » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:00 pm

Here are my questions:
  • Why are the meeting minutes consistently 3-4 months out of date?
  • Why are the names of nominees not included in the meeting minutes?
  • Why aren't the vote results published? (ex. Jan received 3 votes, Johan received 2 votes, Juanita received 4 votes)
  • Where is the logic in having a board consisting of third-party developers who will make decisions influenced by personal gain?
  • Where is the transparency?

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by AmyStephen » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:54 pm

Niv and Cindy - neither one of you have answered my question. There is a community group that is reviewing governance issues. Why not participate in the group? At best, this adhoc forum question approach is complicating their efforts at trying to come up with recommendations for review by the broader community. Why not be a part of the change and join the others working on this?. Or, at least help me understand why you are not willing to join the others who are addressing this topic.

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by brian » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:13 pm

NivF007 wrote:
One thing that I have always felt important is that becoming a OSM member (for lack of a better word) is based on skills and talents and not based on a popularity contest.
Well perhaps you can clarify what you are referring to as a 'popularity contest.'

Do you support that OSM Directors should be elected democratically by the community stakeholders?

Best,

N
I think you are suffering from a misconceptions. OSM is not the leader of the Joomla project. OSM is just one of the leadership teams which unlike any of the others has specific legal an financial obligations. It has no role or authority over any aspect of development, thats the role of the PLT, or of community orientated stuf, thats the CLT. Although I admit for a few minor historical reasons there is some overlap at the moment on some community stuff.

As for electing them democratically then I don't see how that is currently possible (or will ever be possible). How do you define who gets a vote? Remember that for the majority of the world English is not their first langauge and they never visit joomla.org
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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by montano » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:32 pm

AmyStephen wrote:Niv and Cindy - neither one of you have answered my question. There is a community group that is reviewing governance issues. Why not participate in the group? At best, this adhoc forum question approach is complicating their efforts at trying to come up with recommendations for review by the broader community. Why not be a part of the change and join the others working on this?. Or, at least help me understand why you are not willing to join the others who are addressing this topic.
Niv and I were on the Governance WG. I have contributed my suggestions and concerns. I left the group when it devolved into a circuitous shouting match.

It is frustrating to me when people discuss their concerns the knee jerk response from many is "stop talking about it and fix it yourself". I do not have the authority to fix this. I can only talk about it. Hopefully informing people who do have the power to make change and inspiring them to act.

My concern is this, next month we will have 6-9 new board members. There is no transparency in the "election" process. The board will be self appointed with zero community oversight. A critical decision regarding GPL vs LGPL is being debated right this minute and the people who will ultimately make this decision will be this new self appointed board.

If the majority of the new board are third party developers, they have a personal interest in the outcome of that decision.

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by AmyStephen » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:46 pm

OK, thanks for answering that, Cindy.

It's not always easy to work with groups. At this point, though, probably best to allow the group to bring their recommendations to the floor and then discuss. We can't all drive the bus, as it were, for lack of a reasonable analogy. It just creates a lot of confusion to have multiple efforts.

I'd like to talk an unofficial stab at your questions, if you'd permit me:
Why are the meeting minutes consistently 3-4 months out of date?
Do they have a standard published? It'd be nice if it were more timely but I am guessing the time lag is due to volunteers finding time to compile the notes, then the back and forth a review takes. Perhaps the board can set a goal to improve in this area.

Just to add - before the 2010 elections - there were ***NO*** minutes. That's why you see me supporting the openness I see. Even if the notes are late, they are provided (and should be, IMO.)
Why are the names of nominees not included in the meeting minutes?
That's been answered a few times. It should be noted you and I as candidates who were never board members feel differently about publishing those names. So, let's at least respect the fact that there is no Right Way(tm) to do this. Sounds like the board will consider this change and we'll see if they add publishing the names of candidates hopefully after confirming the candidates are comfortable with their name being shared.
Why aren't the vote results published? (ex. Jan received 3 votes, Johan received 2 votes, Juanita received 4 votes)
I suppose they could. I don't remember anyone asking. Personally, I don't think it's helpful information but respect we can see that differently.
Where is the logic in having a board consisting of third-party developers who will make decisions influenced by personal gain?
Well, here I think you head into challenging areas since every one, whether they admit it or not, has personal benefits for their involvement. I would hope the board would continue to try to balance involvement across a myriad of different influences. Site builders, extension developers, core developers, trainers and so on, all have important points of view. Same can be said of diversity in other areas.

It would be wrong, IMO, to omit extension developers, especially assuming they can't be community minded. In any group, some people are more self serving than others but I think that's part of the selection process -- trying (TRYING) to find community minded people. IMO, the group has addressed that goal sufficient (not perfectly.)
Where is the transparency?
Frankly, I think that's unfair and it's not constructive. It's like asking "Where is the love?" of someone questioning like you are. I know you do care and it's from that caring part of you that you ask but I also believe you aren't being completely fair. But, that doesn't mean I reject you. I value you.

OK. Thanks for allowing me to share my unofficial POV. ;-)

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by Webdongle » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:50 pm

AmyStephen wrote:...There is a community group that is reviewing governance issues. Why not participate in the group? ...
  1. Does that operate a closed door policy as well ?
  2. Who can join it ?
  3. What power do they have over the OSM ?
  4. Who votes in members to that group ?
Would be very surprised if the group you mention is effective.
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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by montano » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:57 pm

Paul started the group, posted an invitation, etc... It is on Basecamp. It is an advisory board, no power. The idea is to present findings and suggestions at JAB2014. If the new board so chooses, the can adopt the suggestions..or not.

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by AmyStephen » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:10 pm

Webdongle - I have no idea what you are driving at there. It was a suggestion to Cindy and Niv who are interested in the topic of governance for how to more effectively participate. It sounds like they have tried that avenue of involvement. Beyond that, I probably need to contact my attorney before answering your questions. ;-) That's a joke, lighten up. Even if it's all a big conspiracy, it's unlikely we'll unravel the mysteries in the forums.

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by NivF007 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:12 pm

@ Brian
I think you are suffering from a misconceptions. OSM is not the leader of the Joomla project. OSM is just one of the leadership teams which unlike any of the others has specific legal an financial obligations. It has no role or authority over any aspect of development, thats the role of the PLT, or of community orientated stuf, thats the CLT. Although I admit for a few minor historical reasons there is some overlap at the moment on some community stuff.
No misconceptions - at least not on this one.

OSM is responsible for the Joomla! Brand, which means licensing and rights to use. This impacts anybody who brands themselves with Joomla!, whether as an extension developer, template developer, designer, instructor, consultant, etc. (e.g. "The Official Books of Joomla!"). As, I understand from your post you were one the 'signatures' to provide OSM such powers, I would greatly appreciate it if you corrected me if here if I am wrong.
As for electing them democratically then I don't see how that is currently possible (or will ever be possible). How do you define who gets a vote?
The answer is dead simple. It's defined in the current iteration of OSM's by-laws which state
4.2. ELECTION AND TERM OF DIRECTORS. The Board of Directors shall be elected by the voting Members at the Annual General Meeting.
3.2. RIGHT TO VOTE. Only Members in good standing shall have the right to vote at the Annual General Meeting
3.4. NUMBER OF MEMBERS. There is no limit on the number of Members the Corporation may admit.
3.3. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP. Applicants qualified under Section 3.1 above, shall be admitted to membership will be determined on a case by case basis, at the sole discretion of the Board and/or Membership Committee. Any "contributor" to Open Source Matters who is supportive of this corporation's purposes and is not otherwise prohibited by any contract, law or regulation from abiding by the terms of these by-laws shall be eligible for membership. A "contributor" shall be any individual who has contributed to improving Open Source Matters and its projects in any form.
[emphasis added]

The Directors have a legal obligation and a fiduciary duty to follow the spirit and and intent of the by-laws - clearly the by-laws are not set out with the intent that incumbent director will only admit themselves and continue to have a stranglehold on the decisions of who gets elected to OSM.

Adherence to proper election procedures, in accordance with the by-laws, is pretty much at the top of the responsibilities of directors - in fact, the refusal to admit members who are unsympathetic to themselves may result in the personal liabilities of directors to the corporation.

So the question is not how can this be done, but why is the adherence to the spirit and intent of the by-laws not the number priority of current directors?

Brian, as for my question that I've asked you re supporting democratic elections open to the community, am I to understand that as one of the co-founders of Joomla! you do not support this, despite what's set out in the by-laws?

N

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by NivF007 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:17 pm

@ Amy

Regarding your question as to why I don't join the Governance Working Group, my apologies for not answering sooner.

Let's just say that the President of OSM, Paul Orwig is aware that I'm ready to roll up my sleeves to assist GWG on these matters.

Best,

Niv

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by NivF007 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:33 pm

Montano wrote:
Paul started the group, posted an invitation, etc... It is on Basecamp. It is an advisory board, no power. The idea is to present findings and suggestions at JAB2014. If the new board so chooses, the can adopt the suggestions..or not.
It's important to note that the past, or one of the past, OSM Boards adopted these by-laws (which set opening up membership and elections to contributors), so it seems there was an intent to do so.

There are also invitations to participate with the Governance Working Group towards those goals, as Cindy sets out.

The question here is one of which ideology to the current and upcoming OSM Directors hold. As it stands, only directors are members (they've only admitted themselves as members), only directors have the power to admit members, and only members can vote for directors.

Not only can this current circumstance persist, but the directors also hold the full power to ratify the by-laws without requiring ratification from the membership (i.e. community of contributors), so for example, they could ratify the by-laws to give themselves the power to terminate other directors (i.e. one very small group of people could permanently seize control of OSM and the Joomla! brand - they could do so, actually sell the rights to Microsoft if they wanted to, among other potential actions that would be detrimental to the community of Joomla! contributors).

So this debate is much more than just about which Directors feel which others would 'play nice in the sandbox,' but also, how do you protect the Joomla! community that relies on the welfare of the Joomla! brand altogether? ....And also if we don't, what could potentially happen to those community stakeholders and contributors who have a vested interested in the Joomla! brand.

In this light, IMO, it's best to put the power for elections in the hands of the Joomla! Community at large by admitting the contributors as members, who can then vote for the directors who they feel will best represent their interests.

N

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by AmyStephen » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:03 pm

Niv - the board follows those rules. You didn't answer Brian's question, either. How do you define "contributors?" How do you ensure only contributors vote? That each vote is counted? That each contributor votes once? That the language of each voter is supported?

These processes take time to develop. Drupal has taken steps in this direction, but still only have two seats of their board covered by the process. Thankfully, their work provides some guidance for others. To the best of my knowledge, the WordPress Foundation has one member and that's Matt. I could be wrong, it's been awhile since I looked, but the foundation is just getting started.

If you aren't able to work with the governance group who are exploring these issues, that's fine. Not everyone can work within a group, not every group is a good fit for every person. But, let's empower the group, not sabotage their efforts with these side discussions. Allow them to present their findings, then everyone, including you, will be provided opportunity for feedback.

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by brian » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:06 pm

For the record the Drupal system is that anyone who has an account at drupal.org and has logged in once during the previous year is entitled to vote. In the Joomla world that would be much harder as we have numerous non-english language community sites such as joomla.fr whose users never have a reason to even have an account at joomla.org
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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by AmyStephen » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:08 pm

Niv - In case it's not clear -- I am ***NOT*** asking you to answer these questions. I'm pointing out these ARE questions that the governance group is (likely) exploring. I'm asking that you stop, for now, respect the efforts of the governance group and wait until they present their work. Then, constructive feedback is helpful.

Agree, Brian.

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by montano » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:35 pm

I recommended the ubuntu model. There is some merit involved, you must make a request to join, etc... I think the the WG will present several well thought out options. I have faith that those who are capable of staying the course regardless of the arguments will succeed.

Getting the new board to adopt the suggestions may be tricky. We'll see how it goes.



I don't think it is helpful to tell people to shut up. This is a forum.

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by NivF007 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:41 pm

@ Brian

The language issue. I wonder about that too. Whereas languages other than English are often an 'afterthought' for software developers, Joomla! has really embraced Internationalization - from the software to user groups all around the world - it's a truly wonderful dynamic of this community.

I'm not sure how a board would operate without a common language - yet I feel strongly that the interests of those from various cultures around the world should also have a say and their interests represented.

So it is a very interesting question, but it's no like we've solved that question under the current paradigm - which is to English is the de facto language of OSM Board Meetings.

@Amy

For the record, I am fully supportive and grateful to the Governance Working Group - I have witnessed them at work, they are, IMHO, very intelligent, passionate and creative - I'm certainly not sabotaging their efforts - I've never said one bad word about them and I am looking forward to their findings.

We are merely having a discussion on the forum in which anybody is free to participate - or not.

Best,

Niv

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by Webdongle » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:44 pm

montano wrote:... It is an advisory board, no power. The idea is to present findings and suggestions at JAB2014. If the new board so chooses, the can adopt the suggestions..or not.
Then there was no point in you bringing it into this thread. It has no power to change things therefore posting in this forum is just as valid as joining that group. And by users posting their concerns in this forum reaches more users.
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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by MarijkeS » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:48 pm

I'm not going to answer on all individual questions and remarks.

I want to thank Brian for the trust he expresses in OSM to balance the team.
Whether it was with or now without a rubberstamp of the COC, regarding elections the talents, skills needed and the balance are highly on the list of the current OSM members that can cast a vote.

Putting trust in the current board is what I miss out here from a lot of you.
I already stated that our current bylaws are not complete, we ARE working on that.
There is a governance working group, and telling to me that you don't trust it to be effective is in contradiction to what you say you want (more input from the community). Seems like if we try to put something in place to have input from the community it is questioned if OSM is going to do something with it. So what is you want?
Putting up rules for it? Yes, but then you question again that it are only the Directors that are discussing and approving those rules.
If we put the horse before the car, you question OSMs intention, if we put it after the car you are accusing us of all kind of abuse of power. Looks like it's hard to get you all satisfied.

My biggest concern again, and also on this working group is how much input is there from local communities.
Brian already pointed out the language barrier. I feel the rest here completely ignores that or doesn't understand that this is a huge point we have to take into account. Saying OSM is a parent that doesn't want to let go the child is not at order here.
To me it is very important that we are hearing them, and that is a challenging aspect most of you are not aware of.

I'm going to ignore accusations like personal agenda's to the point where it is offending.
It simply doesn't make sense here and we can go on accusing each other until we get tired of it, without gaining any progress.
But if you insist, then here is a challenging question: Who will not have a personal agenda in your opinion?
Every OSM director signs a disclosure form to deal with a possible COI .

For now I am going to leave this thread as it is.
There is another huge thread going on about an important subject that has a lot of impact and I am trying to watch that thread closely. If you question why the meeting minutes are sometimes late; well here is one reason. For me personal my first language is not English, and though I learned it at school and gained much knowledge and skills over the past years participating on our project and on the LT (yes, one of the areas I personally gained free education!) it still takes more time then you can imagine trying to understand all that is written, most challenging when it gets rhetorical, and answering takes even more time. Besides that there are a lot more tasks within OSM, the LT as a whole, the international community and the local community I come from. And next to that I try to have a life too!

Thanks for your consideration.

P.s even now while writing this post there are 5 more new posts, see my problem?
PPS make that 6 after reading them
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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by montano » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:49 pm

Webdongle wrote:
montano wrote:... It is an advisory board, no power. The idea is to present findings and suggestions at JAB2014. If the new board so chooses, the can adopt the suggestions..or not.
Then there was no point in you bringing it into this thread. It has no power to change things therefore posting in this forum is just as valid as joining that group. And by users posting their concerns in this forum reaches more users.
Huh? Amy told me to join it, I told her I already had. You asked a question about it, I answered it.

Unless your comment wasn't directed at me. We seem to agree on the point, why not discuss it here on a public forum since not everyone has access to the Basecamp discussion.

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by NivF007 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:07 pm

@ Amy:
How do you define "contributors?" How do you ensure only contributors vote? That each vote is counted? That each contributor votes once? That the language of each voter is supported?
This is not complicated.

Let's break it down (what you see are applicable parts of the OSM by-laws)
There is no limit on the number of Members the Corporation may admit.
and
Any "contributor" to Open Source Matters who is supportive of this corporation's purposes and is not otherwise prohibited by any contract, law or regulation from abiding by the terms of these by-laws shall be eligible for membership. A "contributor" shall be any individual who has contributed to improving Open Source Matters and its projects in any form.
[emphasis added]

No only is there no limit to membership, but the language clearly speaks to this - the intent and spirit of OSM's by-laws dictate a large, broad based membership based on any form of contribution.

Conversely, having directors only admit themselves - which is the current state of affairs - is not within the intent and spirit of OSM's by-laws - so there is duty on directors to move OSM elections from the current state of affairs towards what's set out in OSM's by-laws.
How do you ensure only contributors vote?
Membership records must be kept, and, under most statutes, made available to persons requesting the membership roster. It is normally an offence a) for directors not keep records; and b) for directors to refuse to provide a membership roster and contact information - in Canada, under the Canada Corporations Acts, such offence are punishable by up to 6 month jail terms.

We need to check the statue under which OSM is currently incorporated to verify this and for the particulars - but you can pretty much be rest assured that these types responsibilities are entrenched somewhere in those statutes.

So the question is not 'contributors' but bona fide members.

As for your other questions - I have seen directors of a not-for-profit abuse proxies and the election process to re-elect themselves - and so that they could secretly help themselves to corporate funds and exclude other directors who weren't 'in on the fraud.'

I am not suggesting or alleging that this is in anyway happening, or evening being contemplated by any OSM Director, past or present.

I am merely stating that this sort of stuff happens - it happens with people whom are normally considered trustworthy - but at some point, things go south.

So at least part of the answer here is to be very transparent with elections and have an auditable trail - so that if election fraud is called into question - a third party organization, such as an accounting firm, can investigate the matter.
That the language of each voter is supported?
Why wouldn't we use our translations teams for this?

Hope that answers the questions.

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by NivF007 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:16 pm

@Marijke
Putting trust in the current board is what I miss out here from a lot of you.
I already stated that our current bylaws are not complete, we ARE working on that.
There is a governance working group, and telling to me that you don't trust it to be effective is in contradiction to what you say you want (more input from the community). Seems like if we try to put something in place to have input from the community it is questioned if OSM is going to do something with it. So what is you want?
I hope that you don't take the discussion of concerns, in particular, as they relate to the intent of the by-laws, the duties of directors and opening up elections as 'mistrust' of the board - it is understood that there is work to be done.

Thank you for your efforts. I personally have no reason not to trust the board. I see this is a discussion of issues and concerns and I'm grateful to you as board members for your participation.

As for what it is I want - I can answer that for myself as quite simply having an open discussion on these matters with the community - the purpose of having a forum.

Again - it's great to see an sitting OSM Board Member participating and attentive to the concerns and the discussion - but I agree - this thread has now grown far too large.

As for the International local communities - I agree wholeheartedly - so if this seem not to get mentioned or buried among other issues - I am grateful that you keep bringing focus to it!

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by Webdongle » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:37 pm

MarijkeS wrote:Putting trust in the current board is what I miss out here from a lot of you
If there is mistrust it has been cause by the lack of transparency by the OSM. Complain about the the posts as much as you like but until the OSM are more transparent then ... there is a big red button that says 'Do not push'. And everyone is pushing it because of the reluctance to answer valid questions.

I don't know enough about the OSM members to trust or mistrust them. But I do know that the lack of transparency by the OSM will only cause any existing mistrust to fester. If the lack of transparency continues then how long before Joomla gets Forked ?
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https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by NivF007 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:48 pm

+1 Webdongle

Yet I think that by having an effective and well coordinated communication strategy on these matters with community at large would go a long way to helping to alleviate any mistrust.

As for meeting minutes, any board resolution (i.e. any matter which is taken to formal vote), needs to be recorded in the minutes. It's good practice (but not required, as far as I'm aware) to also record how each director voted - this information is useful when the constituency wishes to review how incumbent directors have been voting and deciding whether or not they are representing their interests.

I guess the question for the OSM Board again is one of ideology - how transparent and accountable the Board wishes to be.

I don't see a requirement to make the minutes available to non-directors at all - yet the OSM Board does this - so much kudos and much appreciation!

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by AmyStephen » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:01 pm

Thanks to Cindy for putting a set of bullets up for the board to consider. That's helpful.

As far as some of these other comments, it's just more of that stuff you hate to see happening in a community. These suggestions that the board isn't accountable or transparent or listening or answering questions, the assumption you can find a real question that doesn't sound like "When did you stop beating your wife?"

The insinuations that have been made in this thread by some are not quickly forgotten and it does not erase insult to follow with kudos and claims of respect. This is why I shared that video -- to help provide a resource to help clarify how people harm themselves without intending too -- as they use these approaches. Trying to help. *shrug*

I'm very hopeful for the board. In 2010, we saw a big growth spurt in openness and community involvement. My sense is we are on the cusp of yet another step forward. I'm eager to see where this group leads and I have full faith in this board and even in the yet to be named board members to lead.

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Re: RE: Call for OSM Board Nominations - Feb 7, 2014

Post by Webdongle » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:10 pm

montano wrote:...
Unless your comment wasn't directed at me. We seem to agree on the point, why not discuss it here on a public forum since not everyone has access to the Basecamp discussion.
It was not directed at you ... it was point out the futility of Amy dragging it into this thread. And to express my opinion that the subject of advisory body has no bearing on whether or not the questions should be asked in this forum.
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