JACL or JUGA

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JACL or JUGA

Post by szonkie » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:17 pm

Hi there

I need better control over my content and in particular Docman groups, I have used JACL in the past and even though it is a hack it works very well when creating new group access levels, obviously a pain to remove. Whats JUGA like? has anyone tried it here? and can any of you favour any one of them JACL or JUGA?

Thanks

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by homersimpson » Thu May 01, 2008 7:08 pm

I would like to know about Juga as well. I need better control over user/group access of content.

Thanks

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by szonkie » Fri May 02, 2008 11:29 am

I have used JACL in the past and have installed the latest edition on Joomla 1.0.15 It has sorted all my problems out as I needed to create several user groups with different access permissions especially with DOCMAN, so I'm pleased the way its all working and would recommend it. From what I've seen and heard JUGA does not provide the full functionalty of JACL. Be careful with JACL though when it comes to compatabilty and updates. Always back up first.

Hope this helps

szonkie

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by dioscouri » Mon May 05, 2008 1:22 pm

This was true prior to the new release of JUGA. As of JUGA v1.01/v1.51, though, JUGA restricts access to all tasks/functions of all components (including Docman, Fireboard, Remository) without hacking your Joomla core files (JACL HACKS your files). You can create an infinite number of user groups, hide modules based on those groups, and also hide menu items (when using their mod_mainmenu replacement). If you want to use a menu module that allows for drop-downs, etc, they'll give you the necessary PHP code to make it work with JUGA's restrictions.

We finally have true ACL for Joomla thanks to JUGA.

Essentially, what it's doing is taking the URL/query from the page being accessed

Code: Select all

index.php?option=com_docman&catid=4&task=download
and matches it against the queries stored as "Site Items" in JUGA. Depending on the JUGA Group(s) you've granted access to that query, JUGA restricts or allows access. It's SEF too, so JUGA interprets SEF URLs and matches them against "internal" URLs.

You do NOT need to put in *every* single URL/query for your site - you can designate restricted URLs but leave the rest excluded from JUGA's restrictions if you want. YOU tell JUGA which variables to process for which components, and it goes from there. It might sound hard here as i've described it, but it's actually pretty simple.

The best part is, though, that it doesn't hack your joomla core files.
--
Rafael Diaz-Tushman, President & CEO
Dioscouri Design: Form and Function
... developers of JUGA, BILLETS, SYNK, MANGA, AMBRA and AMIGOS
www.dioscouri.com

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by homersimpson » Mon May 05, 2008 2:05 pm

This sounds like what I am looking for. Once it is released for 1.5, I will purchase.

Thanks for the post.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by dioscouri » Mon May 05, 2008 2:12 pm

It's already there. The versions available now are
v1.01 for Joomla 1.0.x
v1.51 for Joomla 1.5.x NATIVE

Thanks!
--
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... developers of JUGA, BILLETS, SYNK, MANGA, AMBRA and AMIGOS
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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by bignellrp » Wed May 07, 2008 1:52 pm

Neither JACL or JUGA are easy tools to use. I recommend Simple ACL by itOpen:

http://www.itopen.it/2007/12/03/simple-acl-per-joomla/

Its really easy to install and setup and allows you to restrict EDIT/VIEW/ADD/DELETE for certain content based on Category.

The only thing missing for this tool is the ability to apply these ACLs to a whole group.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by mulich1 » Mon May 26, 2008 2:42 pm

bignellrp wrote:Neither JACL or JUGA are easy tools to use. I recommend Simple ACL by itOpen:

http://www.itopen.it/2007/12/03/simple-acl-per-joomla/

Its really easy to install and setup and allows you to restrict EDIT/VIEW/ADD/DELETE for certain content based on Category.

The only thing missing for this tool is the ability to apply these ACLs to a whole group.

I'll second that! Easy to use my eye. The guy explaining the stuff above is a developer. I suppose it is "easy" for him. I'm not hating on Juga or anything but...I had to laugh at "easy to use." JUGA won't even post a much needed manual for download (you've got to pay to play). I need to see if that stuff will work with my whole setup before I start dishing out the bucks... I may check out Simple ACL. Thanks for the advice.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by dioscouri » Mon May 26, 2008 2:49 pm

Hello!

The JUGA Manual is available here for free: http://www.dioscouri.com/juga/manual/

We're also *very* open to hearing requests for how to make it even easier to understand, but before making those requests, we do ask that you at least take a look at the manual.

Thanks!
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... developers of JUGA, BILLETS, SYNK, MANGA, AMBRA and AMIGOS
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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by mulich1 » Mon May 26, 2008 3:40 pm

Thanks for posting the manual. I'll give it a second swing. I would still qualify "easy"; Easy to the intermediate/expert user but not easy for the beginner in Joomla. I uninstalled JUGA last night. When I had installed JUGA, about 3 weeks ago, I could have sworn the manual was for paid subscriptions only...maybe things have changed since then?? Also, what's the difference between the JUGA you can download and the commercial JUGA? It seems every time I add a component, I open up another dozen issues that need to be solved. With JUGA, I couldn't even login or log out a Community Builder user without the infamous "unauthorized error".

Also, would help if you could maybe offer an unconditional money back guarantee for your product. I don't mind paying.. I just hate paying for something that won't work after the project is done. I also need JUGA to play nicely with Open Realty / CMS realty, and with SMF. If you could guarantee me that JUGA will work in my project (there's some qualifying in that statement), I'd give you double what you're asking for it.

Also, while I'm at making suggestions, it would be a HUUUUUUUUUGE help if you were to get in front of your computer with a recording package and record your screen along with your audio explanations, and go through a "typical" JUGA install within Joomla, along with enabling JUGA, and demonstrate basically what it is supposed to do. i.e. here is a test user, I'm adding him to a test group, here is a menu that unregistered users don't see, I'm logging in as a registered user now, see how I can now see that menu designated for that user's JUGA group? Want to use JUGA with your existing Simple Machines Forum? Here's how to quickly do that.... It would take you all of 20 minutes of your time. I would bet that this simple video would propel your product into the stratosphere.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by dioscouri » Mon May 26, 2008 3:55 pm

@video tutorials -- what are some of the software packages you would recommend?
--
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... developers of JUGA, BILLETS, SYNK, MANGA, AMBRA and AMIGOS
www.dioscouri.com

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by mulich1 » Mon May 26, 2008 7:00 pm

dioscouri wrote:@video tutorials -- what are some of the software packages you would recommend?
Camtasia is probably the best out there (we use it for training because Lord knows I hate repeating myself.) If you don't want to buy it you could at least try it (full feature) for 30 days...just long enough to get your tutorial done. Important features are being able to zoom in where you are typing so that it will be readable to viewers (unlike other free recording software out there). Then you can export it to shockwave flash (or countless other formats), as it is very small this way. I just did a demo of it, showing you how to download it, so that you can use it to demonstrate your product (of course, you would add audio to yours). View it here: http://www.homesofaugusta.com/recorddone/recorddone.htm I don't work for them by the way. I have a real estate brokerage. And guess what I do for my customers? I could throw a manual at them just like every other brokerage in town (pictures of homes) but instead, I do video tours for my customers and link to those homes on the internet. There are already dozens of guys doing it for Joomla tutorials, why aren't you doing it for JUGA tutorials?

Take my advice and watch your product grow exponentially. All I ask is that you send me a link so I can watch it *after* reading the manual.
Last edited by mulich1 on Mon May 26, 2008 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by dioscouri » Mon May 26, 2008 7:12 pm

Well, that's quite nice. We have one of our guys making them as we speak. He's tested out making two of them, one for installing and one for uninstalling JUGA. He should have some more made shortly.

Thanks for the tip!
--
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Dioscouri Design: Form and Function
... developers of JUGA, BILLETS, SYNK, MANGA, AMBRA and AMIGOS
www.dioscouri.com

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by mulich1 » Mon May 26, 2008 8:34 pm

You did all that in just 12 minutes? See how easy that was? Post your video tutorials and it will force me to take back what I said about your product being not "easy" to use. Watching the tutorials (even without the manual) will definitely make your product "easier" to use - even for a beginner. I volunteer to be the judge of that.

Regards,
Mark

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by homersimpson » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:58 pm

I purchased JUGA and have been using it. I must admit, I had some questions on how to use it but luckily their support is excellent. I highly recommend JUGA and dioscouri. No, I do not work for them. I am just a happy customer and it is nice to get good support.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by szonkie » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:20 am

Fair enough, but I'm using JACL and it has given me total control over my groups and access levels, so I'm happy too. ;D

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by gtanime » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:44 pm

Juga sux, was a pain installing it, fixing httaccess, trying to find the goddamn php ini in godaddy servers, then classifying each one of the users twice (bugs), database errors, customer support takes forever to answer and I wasted money that I should gave to the guys of JACL.

Jacl saved my life today, I have to finish a site for tomorrow and this was one of the last steps; assigning and creating user groups, and Juga wasnt restricting users and was redirecting the urls from external componets (such the url of my forum, phpbb based)... at the end, I had too much trouble....

Thank you JACL a big donation is going to your pockets!

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by mulich1 » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:36 am

Ok. I was the one who posted the above comments about how Juga needs to add video tutorials to their site. I believe they took my suggestion and ran with it same day? That was impressive. Ok, so I take back the part about being hard to install. Juga is getting on my good side. I plan on spending the bucks to get the support. I'll let you know how that goes. As for the above post, I don't see how your complaints are fair since htaccess and you php.ini are out of the realm of Juga operations. Godaddy is your source for those problems. Not to say you didn't have a legitimate beef with Juga, but not with the issues you just described. I was with Ipower and man did they SUCK! They were the source of 99% of my issues with Joomla and installed components. I dropped Ipower, bought my own server, and I've been problem free ever since.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by gtanime » Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:56 am

the thing is that Juga was giving me an error after I installed and the only way to fix it was to modify the php ini file. damn godaddy doesnt let you go to the php.ini so you have to edit httaccess. For newbies, accessing php ini file is a pain, and adding the code is worst.

Juga is aware of that, and they even said it how to fix it cuz is a bug they forgot to fix. (FAQ).

after all that, is not restricting pages.

JACL was easy to install, and did what I wanted to, adding the new user groups into the same fields as joomla instead of creating a whole mess. I was against time, and I need help asap, they took 2 days to answer me back.

Juga is nice, but having the troubles that I had changed my mind.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by rileks » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:19 pm

I would like to know about Juga as well , cause i want to implement in my website http://www.rileks.com/.

Thanks Be4

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by gtanime » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:28 am

Juga is nice, but try JACL first... is easy and its free.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by railer » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:40 pm

I'm using JUGA on a new site I'm working on and even though it was hard to figure out at first, after some email support from the developers, I was able to get it setup properly and it does what I wanted it to do. I have about sixty admins for the site, and I am now able to restrict them to editing only their assigned pages. All pages can be viewed by the public, but only edited by their assigned "publisher", which they do from the front-end after logging in. If I wanted to, I could also restrict viewing of individual pages to specific groups that I could set up, such as a paid subscribers group. As far as I can tell, it looks like the amount of groups I could set up is infinite.

Only problem is that the little pencil/page icon next to the page titles shows up with every article (after logging in), so I had to set up a custom error page that they get redirected to if they click on a pencil/page icon for an article that they don't have permission to edit. JUGA's developers are aware of the pencil/page icon issue, but said that eliminating that would require hacking the core code, which they declined to do, understandably. The other thing I don't like is that JUGA requires that you install a proprietary admin template, with the JUGA logo in the upper left corner next to the Joomla Admin logo, and some other promo text in the admin footer.

Overall, I think JUGA Is pretty powerful, but I haven't used JACL and cannot compare it.

Hope this helps,
railer

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by deleted user » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:07 pm

There's a lot more out there than JACL and JUGA...

If you are looking for ACL enhancements, you should first consider Joomla users' ACL Problems other than Joomla's limited core ACL:

Users and developers want different things or don't know what they want or haven't thought it out. What people typically want to *do* is more or less than what various ACL extensions offer.

E.g.,
* Do you want advanced workflow controls for multi-user content creation and validation on the front and/or backend?
* Do you want admins to be able to create user groups and control what pages they can access?
* Do you want (some) users to be able to create groups, manage them, and bind their own content to those groups?
* Do you want to charge fees or offer subscriptions for users to get access to certain content or functions?
* Do you want to partially expose or randomly tease content that requires payment for full access?
* Do you want pay-per-view or subscriber-only content to be accessible to search-engine?

Currently the only ways to set up a very common online business model [free user accounts with paid, expiring subscriptions to greater access for users] are:

1) AEC and JACL+ (both free to download with suggester charter membership subscriptions. core upgrades may be challenging) - add Ninja Access (commercial) for limited locked content exposure
2) AEC and JUGA (JUGA for 1.5 is not free to download and core upgrades may be challenging)
3) JoomSuite Member (59EUR), Permission (currently free BETA), and possibly User (currently 19EUR BETA) (All JoomSuite extensions are for 1.5 only, encoded, and not free. Testable components are really high quality, and the full suite can be had for $200USD or less, which is very reasonable for what you get. It's unclear how it will play with core upgrades. There is no priced packaged for these 3 extensions combined.)

Or,

4) Wait for Joomla 1.6
5) Use Drupal instead of Joomla now. (Drupal's core ACL plus a few extensions cover just about every possible use: All Free) (How to migrate from Joomla to Drupal -- is there a reverse method?)

Personally I am happy to pay reasonable prices for extensions that are clear about what they deliver and then actually deliver it. JUGA seems to be the only ACL extension that fits this description.

The typical lack of clear but sufficiently detailed information from extension developers is fatal when it comes to something as complex as an ACL extension. The lack of demos from ACL developers is just wrong. Most of all from commercial developers! The lack of clear info and demos combined make it virtually certain than only a few desperate, ignorant people will *pay* (usually around $100) to find out if the product works for them.


***Here is a centralized vital info rundown on all the Joomla ACL extensions, as far as I know. Please add/modify as necessary.***


CUSTOM USER/GROUP ACL:

JACL+ / JACLPlus Pro
classic hack, 1.0 and 1.5 versions, limited frontend live demo for 1.0, makes core upgrades challenging

JUGA
not a hack, 1.0 and 1.5. free and commercial versions. not encoded. live demos. URL-based permissions control. create groups, set access levels for front and backend users. rather complicated to use in some respects.

JoomSuite - 1.5 only (1.0 predecessors under different names), no demos, limited time trialware, encoded source, some CB integration, many features, very nice and easy to use, unclear how it will do with future core upgrades
|-Member: subscription management; content restricted to subscribers remains open to search engine bots
|-User: custom profiles and registration forms, newsletter and analytics
|-Community: not yet released; extends User
|-Permission/JCACL: URL-based custom group/user permissions control with simple, granular control over components
|-many other integrated extensions for anaytics, security, billing, etc., more in the pipe..

jCommunity
1.0 and 1.5. free lite version and commercial "plus" version. (pro version still in development.) internal auto-update system. live demo. no subscription management/paid membership feature yet but is on the roadmap. group/role ACL with many other features. Unclear how it is done and how it will perform with core upgrades. Advanced profile user customization. PMS. Security features, some CB integration, many other features...

Community ACL - minor hacks, 1.5, no demo, CB integration, commercial site license, multi-site sync.


LIMITED WORKFLOW:

cACL
(hack?) 1.0 and 1.5. expensive. (I thought it was encoded, but I am told it recently has moved to open source.) nice but seems suited to granular control of relatively small number of backend users b/c it seems to lack the ability to treat them in groups or edit users en masse. no info on what other extensions it will cooperate with. (full functionality is unclear due to limitations of demo site.)

Simple ACL
(not hack?) 1.0. free. Does the same as cACL, same limitations. Works on frontend only. [no demo, have not tested]


TRUE WORKFLOW:

oWorkflows
(hack?) 1.0. free. beta. Multi-user workflow vaildation system. Works with MBT_GROUP (the ReMository group manager), GMAccess (ACL Hack v2 and v3), DocMan groups, JUGA (Joomla User Group Access), Joomla native groups And JACL additional groups. [no demo, have not tested]


OTHER:

AEC/Access Expiration Control: subscription management. works with JACL, JUGA, and many other extensions.

jAccess: jForce Access Component
free but only works with developer's other commercial extensions.

iACL- ???

GroupJive: 1.0. Social networking extension allows *users* to create/manage groups and bind content to groups.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by zuze » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:00 pm

dpk... thank you for taking your time and posting your comparison of the group extensions.

Group access has a big demand, and I am always looking for something that has the best fit.
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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by deleted user » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:15 pm

No problem. It's a chore to do this kind of comparison shopping, so after doing it, we may as well share our notes.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by D0cH0liday » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:59 pm

i have used Simple ACL, only feature missing is the ability to assign access to groups, one currently controls access by selecting users from a drop down.

JUGA: i have tried it but un-installed again - reason: JUGA's default is to deny access, admin then has to grant access, e.g. new blog items by members - not available by default. It would be nice to e.g. create a category/section and via JUGA grant access to a certain group, then, when new content items are created, the new content item should then inherit access level of the category/section. Also, one can create groups, but how do you via registration (e.g. via CB) auto assign a group to a member are even better, let admin select a group that was created via CB.

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Kludges and Cruft Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by deleted user » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:03 am

D0cH0liday--

You should take those questions to the JUGA forum, but I think your CB question shows where Joomla breaks down badly. There is no good way to do a task with Joomla if it also requires one or more other major extensions. You can find or hack a way to do it, but your upgrade process is going to have several critical break points due to these string so dependencies. Creating such a mess in relation to core user functions on a community site is like playing Russian roulette--just a matter of time until you blow your brains out.

CB or most of its functions should be integrated into the Joomla core along with group access and customizable user/group access roles. If this doesn't happen in a year or two, I predict Joomla will be widely abandoned as more dominant competitors emerge.

When people say:
*It can do that (critical and basic task)...with an extension or two!
*It can do that (critical and basic task)...if you write your own extension to do it!
They really mean:
*This is a profound and fundamental omission enabled by fanatics who have overlooked it because they have strong powers of denial and don't want to admit their workarounds are big kludges.

Practically speaking, CB, JUGA, JACL, GroupJive, and all that stuff is a menacing pile of crufty kludges for Joomla.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by stevetsi » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:07 pm

I am currently developing a major site that requires multi-group access control where individual users can belong to multiple access control groups.

The only solution for Joomla 1.5.x (compatible up to 1.5.4) is JACL by ByOSTech.

Yes, it does modify core files, but it should be obvious to anyone that this is required for it to achieve the core-level integration with Joomla's existing ACL.
Yes, the documentation sucks.
Yes, the lack of a fancy demo is a turn off to many.

JUGA, while well documented & supported, still resides outside Joomla's core ACL and will be negated by the ACL in Joomla 1.6.

JACL, while it may *seem* to be supplanted by Joomla 1.6 core ACL, will likely provide much more fine-grained control than Joomla's initial implementation (in 1.6).

Honestly, after using the lastest version of JACL, I truly believe that it should be developed into the core with all its awesome funcionality. I just wish the byostech website & developers didn't make me so nervous. I feel like they could fold and close-shop any day. Oh, and the support is pretty weak. But the product... it's as good as it gets for Joomla ACL (for now).

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by deleted user » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:01 pm

stevetsi--

My understanding is that JACL hacks the core, which makes core upgrades a more complicated process and raises questions about compatibilty with other extensions.

Are you sure that jCommunity and the other commercial-only options, like JoomSuite, cannot do what you want? JoomSuite Permissions is currently in beta (free to download) and should be able to do these things.

I agree that JACL/ByOSTech makes people nervous. If you need to know there is support and the project will continue in good hands, ByosTech's messy, ugly, disorganized site will totally scare you off. This is why the commercial solutions are so attractive.

Is anyone aware of a major ACL extension for Joomla that works with a major SEF extension? My understanding is that JoomSuite and others do not.

But then again, my experience with SEF extensions is that they are ALWAYS trouble and simply for efficiencies sake should be part of the core. (The Joomla core SEF is produces simply ugly results.) Since "SEF"/Human-Readable URLsare now mainly a cosmetic/aesthetic nicety and a memory aid for visitors, I prefer to do without them, especially on complex, custom Joomla sites.

Lack of a solid core ACL+SEF is the critical failure of Joomla that it MUST repair to remain competitive since its main competition is superb in this area.

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Re: JACL or JUGA

Post by JSYMedia » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:12 pm

I'm just now learning about this functionality and have a question regarding access to DOCMan documents:

What is the easiest way to accomplish the below requirement? NOTE: DOCMan does not have this functionality built-in.

I need to write on certain DOCMan documents, "Only Members Can Download This File". The idea is that everyone (members & non-members) can read the document but only members can download the file. This is a way to entice non-members to join my site.

Thoughts?
Tampa Joomla web design at http://JSYMedia.com.


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