What's wrong with the HELP site?

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eyezberg
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What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by eyezberg » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:27 am

I was looking for something (I know I contributed writing of with Jean Marie), and was very astonished to find:
  • Admin 1.0.x / Help Screens / Mambots links to Modules
  • Admin 1.0.x / Chapters / 16. Mambots:
    The following list outlines the Mambots available in their different groups
    This listing is far from being complete
  • Admin 1.0.x / Help Screens / Modules: still entries with only "no content yet" ..?!
    I understand wanting to focus ressources on 1.5, but no-one is using 1.5 right now! Thousands of users are using 1.0.x, and there's screens missing still?
  • Administrator 1.5x / Help Screens: Plugins 1.5x:
    * everything is listed as Mambot!
    * titles should be changed to reflect the new folder structure (authentication, content,editors, search, user, ...);
    * why is FCK listed as editor;
    * why are these links live if there is no content.....?
Sorry for the rant, I know! how work is in the doc team is, but I really believe it's time to organize this better and use a plan reflecting priorities for today:
1. fix Mambots, finish off all 1.0.x entries which are used on a day to day basis by many many users, 1.5 is not out/ not in beta/ far from being used in production!
2.take empty 1.5 entries offline (also saves ressources..).
3. Review live entries to check for changes (for example, in Global Config there are no more "tabs"!)
4. Complete missing entries for 1.5

thanks for reading, and no disreagrd to anyone on the Doc Team!

Edit: hell, browsing 1.5 there's so much to do, I'd even be willing to write some, but don't want to be on any team for the moment... just give me update access :)

Edit edit: thanks Brad.. ;)
Last edited by eyezberg on Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by brad » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:29 am

This is probably the best place to get the attention of the doc team.
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AmyStephen

Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by AmyStephen » Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:54 pm

Joe -

Links would be helpful. I had a hard time finding where you were talking about.

Regarding the link to Mambots actually taking you to Modules in the Help System -- I *finally* found one bad link:
On the Help Screens: General 1.0x Page

As far as your comments about the missing content -- to me, it appears you all came over to Joomla! with what you had -- and what's there is what you had, Joe! In fact, if you return to your old stomping grounds, you will find that, absent Michelle and company, there has been no forward movement at all there! Last Updated : Sunday, 29 May 2005 / Michelle Bisson

Chapters: 1.0.x
Chapters: 4.5.2

My question to you, my friend  8), is this: where have you been;) ... good grief! And, to be honest, there is no reason to panic now! I have seen you helping TONS of community members over the past eight months that I have been here. Apparently, you have not needed to send them to a missing mambot Admin page!

Quick recap of history from August 2005:

1. Don't forget, the initial plan was v. 1.1 and a quicker turn around. I suspect that is why you have not seen the team going backwards to fill gaps with what was to be "yesterday's news" any day now. Right?

2. Then, don't forget that it is tough keeping up with a moving target. Things have changed A BUNCH for what we now call v. 1.5 from what was going to be v. 1.1. A big bunch, as you well know!

3. Finally, with the recent "frozen features" announcement, things should start simmering down and be ready for those on documentation team or helping the documentation team to start getting the final look at what v 1.5 will be, and finishing the documentation.

Question: how do you determine what all the plugins (mambots) are? For v. 1.5, are these just the individual files listed in the plugins subdirectory?

At the risk of sounding like Dubya, I say "Stay the course!" Our future is v. 1.5, the devs are doing an awesome job, the last developer blog that Johan made sounded extremely optimistic when he said "Joomla! 1.5 beta is lurking around the corner" . But, things sound really hopefully!

Personally, I would not go back. But, I would certainly give Joe update access and allow him to fill in the gaps for v. 1.1.  I think that is an excellent idea! He could copy the excellent documentation that I reference when I have mambot questions from:

or

What I am very excited about is this -- when v. 1.5 comes out, the documentation is going to be amazing. People are not going to know what to think. The developer documentation is really starting to shine as is the user documentation. It'll be something special.

Michelle If I can be of help, please let me know. Brad mentioned on Friday you might be looking for resources. If you need me, I will try to find time to pitch in.

Amy

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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by eyezberg » Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:10 pm

Amy,

I did give the click path for everything, ie "Admin 1.0.x / Help Screens / Mambots" = click Administrator 1.0.x, then click Help Screens, then Mambots.. not easy enough to follow? :)

As you state, and what astonished me, is really
...and what's there is what you had, Joe! In fact, if you return to your old stomping grounds, you will find that, absent Michelle and company, there has been no forward movement at all there! Last Updated : Sunday, 29 May 2005 / Michelle Bisson
The problem with those missing Help screens (try for example from one of your sites to click Mambots => SEF and then Help: you only get general bot intro info!) is that these screens are supposed to be accessed by all current Joomla users.
So far, Joomla 1.5 users do not exist, and there won't be any before 2007 I'd guess.. (including testing, RC, component updates etc..)!
And how many users will want to MIGRATE (as in: reinstall and restart from scratch, just with content imported -you will still need to check every article to make sure all is ok) immediately, before knowing the extensions they currently use remain usable?! Make that mid-2007..?!
it is tough keeping up with a moving target
Exactly, that's another reason why 1.0 docs should be finalized and completed BEFORE continuing work on 1.5. The 1.0 version is (almost) not moving!

It's not about "going back" it's about providing full docs for current users. Not for still imaginary, non existent 1.5 users.

Who's "Dubya, and what does "Stay the course" mean? (you forgot I'm in Paris.. :) )

Ok, now stop posting and get those screens written, as you offered to!! :D
Last edited by eyezberg on Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sometimes one pays most for the things one gets for nothing.
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. AE
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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by AmyStephen » Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:45 pm

OK, but that "path" doesn't exist, Mr. Smarty Pants. ;)  If you are trying to show the "clicks," then I would say the path is:
Help (top) / Administrator 1.0x (left) / Help Screens - Mambots (left) - and this where the link incorrectly points to "Modules."

But, you really missed all of my good points when you landed on Dubya . "Stay the course" means "stick to the plan" -- "keep heading in the same direction."

The points you missed were: a) I believe we didn't go back and fill the holes because v 1.1 was soon to be released - so, we hurried in the direction of v. 1.1, right? b) had we known it was going to be a year, we probably would have made a different decision. Yes? c) it still looks like v. 1.5 is almost here, so, the question continues to be why go back? why not just keep moving forward and put all available and yet, scarce, resources towards making the BEST documentation we can build for v. 1.5?

Of course, I am guessing at the rationale, but it seems to make sense to me. And, therefore, IMO, we "stay the course."

But, are we going to keep the v. 1.0.x documentation online? If so, then I understand your point. (But, I wonder if that will be confusing?)

You are predicting 2007 for users? I was thinking Fall - September time frame to begin rolling out. ? hmm. Still, that's five months.

I am more than happy to help -- even along side someone the likes of YOU, since you volunteered, first, and we have a record of that here in this thread -- if Michelle wants needs us.  ;)

Simmer down, now. All you have managed to do is to put yourself on the hook of having to do work. And, you drug me in, as well. So, you quit posting! :P

Done posting. Amy  :)

PS - the quote you made from me was about the other place - where you guys USED to live - there has been no changes THERE. We have moved forward HERE. Just in the direction of v 1.5.
Last edited by AmyStephen on Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by eyezberg » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:07 pm

lol. I guess we're all happy to help, I just don't want to be in any "structure".
Simmer down = Bob Marley. Currently listening to The Passenger, Iggy Pop: ..and I ride and I ride.. ;)

Lets be serious:
* of course 1.0.x screens must stay online, or at least need to be completed and made available for download so users can update their local copies.
* of course I predict 2007 for 1.5, it's more or less the same cycle we were looking at for 4.5.3 (from that "other place"). First, beta needs to be out, tested, bufixes, then Release Candidates, tested, bugfixed. Then once stable is out, users with production sites might want to wait a while untill tested in live environments by others (read guinea pigs if thats how its spelled). Then they'll want to keep using their current extensions, so these need to be tested also. Then they'll have to migrate their content into a new install, and check everything looks and works as expected. Needless to say, this process is going to be much longer than fall.

Of course I can write some, there can't be that much missing (fingers crossed all bot screens still exist!). I can even write them by myself and send them to someone to copy paste and proofread.
Thing is, I'm out of the Team so have no idea about who's doing what currently.
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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by visionspin » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:14 am

Thanks for the wonderful volunteering going on here!

And Amy, thanks as usual for your witty and encouraging defense of our hard-working team.

Edits and suggestions can be posted here:


http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/board,59.0.html

And then someone can make the changes behind the scenes.

Thanks!

AmyStephen

Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by AmyStephen » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:32 am

No problem, Jennifer!

Joe is one of my favorite people because #1) he actually cares and #2) he actually works. Plus, he's just plain fun to give a hard time to! He's got a good sense of humor and he is a nice person, too.

Jennifer - are we editing the Help Screens in the forums, again? I was browsing through there with your link and it looks like that might be the process? You guys talk and see what you would like for help - then let me know! I'll roll up my sleeves and pitch in! V. 1.5 is almost beta! So, we gotta get ready!

Thanks! Amy

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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by Michelle Bisson » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:32 am

Hello Amy,

Please contact me about helping on the Doc team.

Thanks for your interest!
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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by AmyStephen » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:57 am

Hey Michelle!

I tried PMing you, but you box is full. Now, I am willing to do whatever you want to plug me into - just let me know. We are getting closer to beta -- which means that much closer to go live! In August, I am going to be gone a couple of weeks. But, other than that - I am around and would love the opportunity to help. Don't need to be an official team member - just a worker person! Just let me know my orders!

Thanks! Amy

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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by eyezberg » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:50 am

This is all very nice, but what about the wrong link Mambots = Modules?
And why doesn't anyone from Doc Team answer the issues raised?
How to know what is missing if there is no browse access?
Sometimes one pays most for the things one gets for nothing.
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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by Michelle Bisson » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:48 pm

Thanks Amy!  I'll be in touch with you.  I was unaware that my pm box was full.
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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by Michelle Bisson » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:53 pm

Hello Eyesberg!

I don't find this problem  link "wrong link Mambots = Modules?"  Can you give me the pathway?
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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by eyezberg » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:11 pm

http://help.joomla.org/content/category/16/153/225/ should list bots, but lists modules.
Clickpath is in my initial post.
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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by Michelle Bisson » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:58 am

Eyesberg,

Thanks!  It's alot easier to correct things, when I know where to look.
http://help.joomla.org/content/category/16/153/225/ should list bots, but lists modules.
:)
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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by eyezberg » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:24 am

Now that the link works, I see it's worse than I thought, out of all the bot screens, there are only 3 outdated ones with content!?
Michelle, is it true no-one works on 1.0 docs anymore?  :o
Sometimes one pays most for the things one gets for nothing.
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. AE
http://joomla15.[URL banned].com for J! 1.5 screenshots
http://www.eyezberg.com

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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by AmyStephen » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:31 pm

Two options: #1) Document the bots for the project or #2) Ignore it!

But, please be nice, Joe.  :(

Amy

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Re: What's wrong with the HELP site?

Post by Michelle Bisson » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:47 am

Michelle, is it true no-one works on 1.0 docs anymore?
Yes, unfortunately.

The plugin help screens for 1.5 doesn't have more content.

If someone is available to write about plugins for 1.5, please let me know.
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