Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

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Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by eyezberg » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:10 pm

I thought the plan plan was to bring some order into the non-GPL extensions and the official sites, so why are new non-GPL still being published if you want to enforce compliance?
What are the future plans for JED? Will I still be able to access listings of commercial extensions there or not?
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by mcsmom » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:12 pm

From the "Some Common Questions" post stickied above:
What are the plans for the extensions directory?
The extensions directory is one of the issues we are continuing to work on. Research is still being done on what the options are. In addition to dealing with what is listed in the directory, we are dealing with license issues around the extension that runs the directory and that is actually our bigger priority. The people who run our sites are committed to having high quality user friendly structures and any downtime will be very limited, though as with anything involving software, you can never promise perfection.
Whatever happens with the directory, there will be plenty of notice.
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by eyezberg » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:24 pm

"research is being done", "dealing with", "plenty of notice" give no indication whatsoever as to the future plans. So far it's an "issue".
Will commercial extensions continue to be listed or not? is a simple yes/no question..
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by Jenny » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:27 pm

This conversation isn't about commercial or non-commercial.  Hopefully you mean Non-GPL compatible licenses?
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by eyezberg » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:31 pm

Would you all stop picking at the difference between these two words?
That would make life so much easier, as about 90+% of users WILL assimilate both..
Still no answer.
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by brad » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:33 pm

eyezberg wrote: Still no answer.
Please see: http://forum.joomla.org/index.php/topic ... #msg878548
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by eyezberg » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:39 pm

I see but I don't understand where the answer is?
Please explain further?
Clarification: what happens WITH the directory is not the same as what happens IN it...
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by brad » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:45 pm

What are the plans for the extensions directory?
The extensions directory is one of the issues we are continuing to work on. Research is still being done on what the options are. In addition to dealing with what is listed in the directory, we are dealing with license issues around the extension that runs the directory and that is actually our bigger priority. The people who run our sites are committed to having high quality user friendly structures and any downtime will be very limited, though as with anything involving software, you can never promise perfection.
Whatever happens with the directory, there will be plenty of notice.
Until we do our own housecleaning, there is no way we can start on JED cleaning. We can't give you information that we don't have.

BTW, this was stated very clearly in the original announcement: http://www.joomla.org/content/view/3510/1/
Here's the plan: first, we clean our own house and bring the Joomla! sites into compliance.  Next, we ask people in the community to voluntarily comply with the license.  At the same time, we try to help people understand what it takes to comply and how they can do it easily.  We believe we're going to get a lot of compliance that way.

So far, that's the entire plan.  No lawsuits, no pogroms, no martyrs. More to the point, no shouting, no demonisation, and no drawing lines between "us" and "them".
BTW, despite my efforts to offer to discuss with you apparent issues you have with moderating etc, I've not received any correspondence from you. Do you still have my skype? My email?
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by eyezberg » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:31 pm

I think I do have your skype, but rarely use skype. The issue I have is open-ness, freedom of opinion and expression of them without censorship, being able to engage in discussions (which currently is not possible on these boards about the GPL topic), and I much prefer to discuss anything in public, nothing to hide, no conspiracy, right?
And whenever I ask about something a bit touchy, there are no answers, just links or quotes which also do not answer.

Does "until...there is no way we can start on JED cleaning" then mean there will be non-GPL extensions cleanup? Why is it so hard to just say yes? (or No..)

Lobos asks about a way to work around the GPL issue, on which you say you will provide guidance to 3PD. Yet the only "guidance" he gets to his concrete example is "consult with your lawyer"... Is that an answer in your opinion?
Search the boards for "lawyer": over 100 results. Search for "legal": 25 PAGES!

brad, these forums used to be a nice place to hang out, but ever since this started months ago, dev on 1.5 slowed down, people started to quit their "jobs" here, the 3PD of worthwile extensions mostly left, and the whole thing just turned bad. No fun anymore. None. Is this what you folks wanted? Endless discussions, which in the end are completely useless as GPL is defended tooth and nails here against anything anyway? Do YOU enjoy the current situation? Don't tell me you do, please. I don't see where you still find your optimism. I didn't visit for a week, hoping things would be better by now, but I still don't see any SUPPORT of 3PD trying to find solutions or asking for a little help, just legal (one more for the search) references. I will now look for a friendlier place, Joomla or not, "the thrill is gone" (this one's for Jenny: BB King). c yall later maybe.
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by brad » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:32 pm

All the best to you Joe. If I were seeing such negativity myself I would probably also be looking for a friendlier place.

Again, I wish you well.
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by Jenny » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:15 pm

eyezberg wrote: Would you all stop picking at the difference between these two words?
That would make life so much easier, as about 90+% of users WILL assimilate both..
Still no answer.
It makes all the difference in the world Eyez.  The reason why 90% or so of users will assume they are the same is because people keep repeating that it is commercial extensions when that is specifically untrue.  Stop repeating it and maybe users will be educated as to what the real issue is, and it won't be 90% of users - it will be less that are misinformed.

The real issue is over extensions that are released under non-GPL compatible licenses.  There is no issue with commercial extensions or paying for extensions, or for developers charging for extensions under various business models. 

Disagree all you want, I respect that, but please use the correct terms so as to not unnecessarily stir up and muddy the waters. 
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by severdia » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:12 am

MMMedia wrote: It makes all the difference in the world Eyez.  The reason why 90% or so of users will assume they are the same is because people keep repeating that it is commercial extensions when that is specifically untrue.  Stop repeating it and maybe users will be educated as to what the real issue is, and it won't be 90% of users - it will be less that are misinformed.

The real issue is over extensions that are released under non-GPL compatible licenses.  There is no issue with commercial extensions or paying for extensions, or for developers charging for extensions under various business models. 
Yes...an important point since the terms "commercial extensions" and "proprietary extensions" (e.g. non-GPL) are practically used as synonyms in the context of this discussion. There's some logic in why that happens since I don't think there are any proprietary extensions available which are not commercial and I've yet to find a commercial extension which wasn't proprietary (e.g. GPL). So, though they are different, it's easy to blur the lines.

It would seem to make sense that if OSM and Joomla are going through this rigmarole to ensure compliance, it wouldn't make sense for them to keep non-GPL extensions listed. But this is just my take on it.
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by rliskey » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:23 am

You got me wondering if I was using the term 'proprietary' correctly, so I did an odd thing and looked it up. Maybe this helps others too?
Proprietary software (also called non-free software) is software with restrictions on using, copying and modifying as enforced by the proprietor. Restrictions on use, modification and copying is achieved by either legal or technical means and sometimes both. Technical means include releasing machine-readable binaries to users and withholding the human-readable source code. Legal means can involve software licensing, copyright, and patent law. Exclusive legal rights to software by a proprietor are not required for software to be proprietary, since public domain software and software under a permissive license can become proprietary software by distributing compiled versions of the program without offering the source code. Proprietary software's restrictions make it an antonym of free software. For free software, the same laws used by proprietary software are used to preserve the freedoms to use, copy and modify the software.[1] Proprietary software includes freeware and shareware. It can be commercial software, but public domain and all other free software can also be sold for a price and be used for commercial purposes.

According to the Free Software Foundation (FSF), proprietary software is any software that does not meet its definitions of free software or semi-free software. The term's literal meaning covers software that has an owner who exercises control over what users can do with it. One license of the FSF's, the GNU General Public License, asserts that the restrictions of free software offer computer users freedom while the restrictions of other software benefit only the owner and are unethical.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software

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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by eyezberg » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:23 pm

Look at the threads title... "commercial non-GPL" -no need to pick up the other one.
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by manuman » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:28 pm

Joe,

With all due respect, your jumping all over the place. Just because you can't see what is happening doesn't mean nothing is happening. And just because it's not happening fast doesn't mean it's not happening in a proper way with due diligence and consideration.

If it takes a week, a month or even a year... I'd rather it be right than be quick and be wrong.

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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by eyezberg » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:53 pm

Shayne, I'm not jumping at all anymore, in fact I just removed forums.joomla.org from my Firefox homepage when I got here.
I don't plan to be around much anymore, as whatever happens always seems to happen in places where no-one can see, and there's no communication about it untill it's done..
Don't care if something happens fast or slow, as long as I know about it happening. Notice all I got are replies, but no simple Yes/No answer to "will commercial non-GPL extensions be removed from the directory" - would you care to answer this simple question?
People don't live on trust, they want to see to believe.
No communication, no discussions, just repression is what I feel here now -no fun.
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by mcsmom » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:01 pm

Joe,

I'm sorry you feel this way, but as has been said repeatedly it is NOT a simple yes or no question.

Life would be much simpler if more things had clear cut answers, I think we all can agree on that.  :)
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by Jenny » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:03 pm

Sorry you are leaving the forums for the how-ever-many-th time (it has to be at least the 3rd time) in the last two years Eyez. 

Which I guess really means - See you soon! :)
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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by leadict » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:21 pm

How many human feelings rise from a bit of code!

My best wishes to all, from all courts (eyezberg, pardon by the off-topic :-[).
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Re: That was just basic logic, not rudeness.

Post by AmyStephen » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Regarding this post, please don't leave.  :'(

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Re: Why are new commercial non-GPL extensions still being published on JED?

Post by eyezberg » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:52 pm

Jenny, it is the second time.
The first time was when the split happened under just the same circumstances (no forewarning, everyone being put in front of an "take it or leave it/us" decision - I don't like being obliged to do something, even less so in the free/open source whatever context.
I have now discontinued the few modules I had on JED, they are/were GPL so anyone is free to do whatever with them.
Good luck.

PS: I will log out now untill this situation is resolved somehow, so don't bother with PMs. Thx
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