Have to wonder...

[Rogue4ngel]

I've been following the discussions on the GPL as of late.  Not because I'm particularly swayed one way or another regarding the issue, but because I'm curious how far the Joomla team is going to go to appease people who are asking some very nebulous and far reaching questions that don't really seem to be getting to a specific question or point? To what end?

What really makes me curious is why the people questioning the team are board members from Mambo, whose members have stated in their public forum they believe this could be an opportunity for them to court 3pd's and Joomla members back to Mambo because of the GPL issue and the eventual release of 1.5 which they say J! members are disappointed with.

They actually have said as well that the more PR they can get the better.  So is this discussion just a publicity stunt to get attention on Mambo?  It does seem to have that feel to it.

I'd love to see the Core team say enough is enough with some of these people. Stop feeling they have to defend the very thing the project was founded upon, and let the 3pd's stop trying to find ways to change what they have stated is their stance on the issue.  All they ask is compliance to GPL.   I don't see people looking for clarifications.  I see people trying to trip up the team and find ways around the issue, or come up with reasons why their decision is wrong to interpret the GPL they way they want.

Why would anyone from Mambo really care so much?

Does it make anyone else the slightest bit curious?

[Elpie]

What really makes me curious is why the people questioning the team are board members from Mambo, whose members have stated in their public forum they believe this could be an opportunity for them to court 3pd's and Joomla members back to Mambo because of the GPL issue and the eventual release of 1.5 which they say J! members are disappointed with.

They actually have said as well that the more PR they can get the better.  So is this discussion just a publicity stunt to get attention on Mambo?  It does seem to have that feel to it.

There are no Board members from Mambo questioning the Joomla! team. While I am a Board member, I have posted in my private capacity as someone who was with OSM and then Joomla! right from the beginning - the first day in fact, and whose business is potentially affected by what happens with Joomla! If you had bothered to check you will have found a number of posts from me supporting the team and their right to enforce their license in any way they choose.

There is only one thread where I have raised the topic of the Mambo Licensing Guidelines. It is in the GPL "Your Opinion" forum and was in specific response to a number of misleading claims about Mambo that have been posted on these forums. It is neither a question nor an attack. Prior to posting, I sought clarification as to whether discussion about Mambo was appropriate here (as it has not been in the past). Given the response I received saying that it is relevant I sought to give clarification. I would personally have preferred the team to have just directed any questions to Mambo and kept Mambo right out of these discussions about the GPL.

However, the Joomla! decision is that it is relevant and it is on topic because Joomla! inherited the position on 3rd party extensions from Mambo. For a number of reasons, Joomla! had to review this position and I certainly support their right to do so.

The claims you have made about comments from the Mambo team are mischievous and unfounded. Mambo has not sought any PR over the decision made by Joomla! - there is no need to as it does not affect Mambo. You will not find any PR over Mambo's own position in relation to how it enforces its license. Again, there is no need - the situation for Mambo has been unchanged since 2004. If you really did find any of those other comments anywhere, it certainly was not on the Mambo forums.

In the open source world there are people who have worked together on one project or another over many years. Working with a project does not mean people have to become antagonistic towards other projects. There is even a Mambo Board member who is a member of a Joomla! working group. If the Joomla! team and Mambo team can live together without problems I fail to see why others looking in from the outside should feel any urge to create divisions where they just don't exist.

[brad]

There is even a Mambo Board member who is a member of a Joomla! working group

Who are you referring to?

[Elpie]

Krit, Brad, who else?
Akarawuth Tamrareang is a member of the Board of the Mambo Foundation, is on the Mambo core team, and is also a member of the Joomla! Translation workgroup. I understand he is also involved with QA for Joomla! and runs an official Joomla partner site. He runs Joomla! days and training sessions and also Mambo Days in Thailand. I suspect the whole Lai Thai team work with both Joomla! and Mambo.
None of this is new - surely you knew???

[Rogue4ngel]

Elpie,

Although at first your posting would seem innocent enough, the way in which you have latched into this GPL discussion and have been making comments as if you were a 'concerned user' just infuriates me, and I'm not even a team member.

While I don't question your right or interest in being interested about the topic, what I question is why even bring this to a public forum, unless you wish to have it read by the public.  That in and of itself really not being the issue.  It's just hard to believe there is not some ulterior motive to it, especially because I don't see the point of you bringing it up here in our public forum.

You have every right to an opinion, but I always thought the reason for the Joomla forum (specifically the newly created GPL forums) was for people who will be USING the product to express an opinion about it and to have the team answer it, so they can make an informed decision on whether or not they would continue to use Joomla or not by understanding the motivation and thinking of the team on their specific stance on GPL.  The fact that Joomla's team entertained your questions and answered them speaks to their commitment to this, and the fact that they obviously hold some respect for you.  I wouldn't have bothered to even answer you.  It just goes to show again the character of the Joomla team, and why so many people have stayed with them.

I have to question your tactics, especially because you work on Mambo, not just as a user, but as a lead on the very project that has been hurt by the Joomla team's exodus.  Statements on the forum that you administrate has made it very clear that the Mambo team hopes to benefit from this issue being raised here at Joomla, and you have chosen now to 'defend' Mambo from comments made by who?  Certainly not the developers of Joomla.

For myself, the whole post raises a red flag as a serious conflict of interest at the very least.

The forum your posting in is really for Joomla users who plan to use Joomla.  If you do plan on using Joomla, then I would think the Mambo foundation might question your loyalty to their project.

If not, I would seriously consider your motivation and thinking behind stirring up interest in a topic that has been clearly defined, explained, and addressed by the Joomla team.

If you are as supportive of the Joomla team as you claim to be, you wouldn't be making a public address to keep alive a subject that is obviously beating a dead horse, since the Joomla team has repeatedly made their stance quite clear.

So again, the very fact that you state your supporting the Joomla team, your reasoning behind your public address of a topic that has no relevance to you as a Joomla user is what I really question.

[Elpie]

My clients use all types of tools in their businesses, as do I. Do you really think that the use of any FOSS software is dictated by emotions? I develop for and use Mambo, I develop for and use Joomla! I also use Xaraya, Sitellite, Typo3, Wordpress and... heavens above! I use Microsoft software too alongside (gasp!) Linux!

It is a shame indeed if users of any open source software feel that people should be excluded from discussions or their presence on a community forum unwelcome simply because they do not declare a commitment to one application to the exclusion of all others. One does not have to take wedding vows in order to use Joomla!

Before you start jumping to conclusions about anybody's motives, and particularly mine, kindly take the time to consider that with 917 posts since August 18, 2005, six posts in response to others, in their own thread, is hardly latching on to anything. If reasoned discussions between adults infuriate you so much Rogue4ngel, perhaps you should just stop reading?

[Rogue4ngel]

As for msyelf, if I were the lead on a CMS, I'd use it for everything, but that's just me.  It's the context of the situation Elpie. It's not my forum, so you're welcome to do whatever you like.  I was just pointing out something that seemed rather interesting.  You can spin this any way you like. Since you requested the topic in question closed after my first post, it's really not an issue anymore, is it.

[Wendy]

Moving to "Opinion" thread. 

[Jenny]

The thread that was being discussed in this thread has been locked/closed at the request of Elpie.. 

Rogue4angel has stated:

Since you requested the topic in question closed after my first post, it's really not an issue anymore, is it.

This thread will also be locked/closed.