"All But" menu management option

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gwurst
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"All But" menu management option

Post by gwurst » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:41 pm

I found several article with similar information doing a Google search, but they are all invalid and lead me to the main forum page. Is there a way in 1.5 to add an "All But" option under the menu assignment section? I'd like to have a specific menu for the front page, but when I de-select the main menu for the front page I have to manually add it to any new menu items I create. It would be nice to say "Have this menu appear on all pages EXCEPT the following."

Thanks,

Greg

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by bradnana » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:52 pm

I think this is basically the same question I asked here:

http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=428&t=265651

I still don't have an answer, I can tell you that you generally have to click the 'cached' link on search results that link back to this forum in order to view specific threads from search results. Otherwise, the Google search result title link only gets redirected to the forum homepage.

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by herb200mph » Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:10 pm

Do it this way:

Select NONE to clear the list.

Then, hold down the CTL key, and select the ones you want to be an active link item to display the module.
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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by bradnana » Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:36 pm

Thanks for the reply Herb200mph, but that's not our problem.

The problem is in the logic behind how J! assigns modules to menu items. Currently it is only possible to select ALL, NONE, or SOME. It is not possible to select ALL BUT THIS ONE which is exactly what we need.

Eg., I have several modules set to show up in the RIGHT and LEFT positions on my site. However, I also have a wrapper page that pulls in another site. So, on the wrapper page, I want to turn off all the LEFT and RIGHT modules so the columns will collapse and leave more room for the wrapper to expand. In order to do this, I have to set all the modules in the LEFT and RIGHT positions to show only on SOME page links, not ALL (because I don't want them on the wrapper page). When I do this, the modules will not show on any page view that is not generated by a specific menu item link that has the modules assigned to it.

In my case, if I click an article title or 'Read More' link from, say, the front page, I get the article but no modules in the LEFT or RIGHT positions and the columns collapse.

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by herb200mph » Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:50 pm

Yes, ITS IS POSSIBLE.

For the respective module you wish to control display.

At the bottom, the list of menu link items, select NONE.

Then, holding the CTL down, select ALL EXCEPT the link item you wish to display. Example:

Main Menu
HOME - select
Link1 - select
Link2 - don't select
Link3 - select

The result is for HOME, 1, 3 the module will display when these link items are clicked.

When you click Link2, the module WILL NOT display.

You need to invoke this "display rule making" for EACH INDIVIDUAL MODULE you want to control.

The technique DOES NOT WORK on "read more" link items. You would have to create some PHP stuff for that.

It only works at the module + menu link item level.
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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by bradnana » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:46 pm

Yeah, we know how to use the module manager menu item assignment feature. In my previous example about not including modules on a certain wrapper page view, that's exactly how I do it. But you are only partially correct when you say,
The technique DOES NOT WORK on "read more" link items.
Why? Because the menu assignment feature does indeed work on 'read more' link items if we select ALL or NONE, i.e. any modules set to ALL will display on ALL page views and any modules set to NONE will not display on any page views regardless the menu assignment. However, the menu assignment feature DOES NOT WORK on certain page views (like 'read more' and any other page view generated that does not have a specific menu item assigned) if the assignment is set to SELECTED menu items.

Well, wait a minute. After looking at your wording, I recant (but only slightly :P ). The 'technique', as you rightly refer to it, does what it is supposed to. So I suppose what I am trying to argue is that the menu assignment feature logic is only partially complete. It is simply this:

ALL - works on all page views. (Positive inclusive logic)
NONE - works on all page views. (Negative inclusive logic)
SELECT - works on selected page views. (Positive exclusive logic)

But this is missing:

EXCEPT- works on selected page views. (Negative exclusive logic)

In other words, you can take all, or you can leave all. You can take some, or you can leave some. It is basically the same logic used in language by near and remote demonstrative pronouns! This, That, These, Those! Currently, J! only allows for These, Those and This but not That. HAHAHA! Who's on first!?! Well, not exactly but it serves to illustrate the point!

So, we are really not asking how the menu assignment feature works. That's a given. I am just bumfuzzled that the logic in the feature is incomplete, and I had about convinced myself that I was missing something. I wondered if there was a setting somewhere that dictated the way a 'read more' or any other unassigned page view is rendered. I guess not. This single ommission makes it extremely difficult to manage very complex site structures.

I surmised elsewhere that the only way I could see to implement this would be to create a menu item for every single content item on the site, set modules to each appropriately, then hide the menu item. In this scenario, ever time an article is added, a new menu item has to be created and every module has to be updated to show on that items page view. Hardly a reasonable approach.

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by herb200mph » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:00 pm

Its the other way around.

Instead of having the option to select "which modules" show for menu link items, you must tell the module what menu link item it is assigned to. If were link item controlled, the feature could be an option on a "read more" link, but seeing it works in reverse, it can't be applied.

Some PHP whiz will come out with a module/component/plugin thingy at some point to flip it around. You make a menu link item, select from module "short list" to display/or not and there you have it.

To clarify, SELECT can be rubic's cube use to "select" or "not be selected" based on how you apply your logic.

Thanks for the exchange of dialogue.
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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by bradnana » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:38 pm

herb200mph wrote:Its the other way around.

Instead of having the option to select "which modules" show for menu link items, you must tell the module what menu link item it is assigned to. If were link item controlled, the feature could be an option on a "read more" link, but seeing it works in reverse, it can't be applied.
Right! I think...

The only way I've found around this is to create a menu item for each new article and assign all menus to it then hide the menu item. BUT I have found that this 'cludge of a fix' will not work by unpublishing only the menu item because modules cannot be assigned to unpublished menu items. Rather, the menu item must be placed in a menu that is hidden because it is possible to assign modules to unpublished menu modules. But it's still a lot of work, and in my case, I have frontend users submitting articles. That means I would be making menu items and changing module menu item assignments all the time trying to keep up.

Anyone know of a better workaround?

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by bradnana » Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:09 pm

For the visually inclined, here is what we have:
Image

And here is what we need:

Image

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by herb200mph » Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:18 pm

Very clear. Why put that suggest, with the images, into the pool of things for white papers.

Check the White Paper article on the Joomla.org front page for the link to the submission area.

I think its an excellent idea with many useful applications.
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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by bradnana » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:51 pm

Thanks for the encouragement, Herb200mph. I have submitted the white paper here:

http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=500&t=266002

For those of you who have struggled with this issue and would like it addressed in a future release, please lend your support by commenting positively on the white paper thread or contributing to the paper.

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by gwurst » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:50 pm

It looks like this might get some attention in the next version. In the meantime, I wonder if anyone is capable of writing a plugin or module to do this in the current 1.5 version? If anyone is still having trouble conceptualizing the issue I tried to create a simple description on the white paper thread.

Thanks,

Greg

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by nunoleite » Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:18 pm

This option was available in joomla 1.0, why was not implemented in joomla 1.5?
The option Unassigned can work like this, right?
This is because some components deactivate the option in menu and then this will screw up the modules. And this option doesn't exist in Joomla 1.5.

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by corrado444 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:30 pm

I have encountered similar issues with the modules in both 1.0 and 1.5.
In my opinion there should be a logic that corrects this issue but alas is not in the cards right now.

Among the fixes I was able to figure out:

1) Create a "holding menu" unassigned to any position and insert a "read More" using the link captured by that menu. By turning off the "read more" link in the preferences and including a manual "read more" you can send the user to the page where you have assigned the modules. That works because even if the menu is invisible it still creates an entry in the assignment of the modules.

2) More problematic is the "All but these ones" issue with the modules. Right now we can choose to deselect links for each module, but this creates an issue. Each time a new menu link is created the operator ha to go to each module and assign it manually. On some sites this is incredibly boring and error prone.

A solution to the above is t create a clone of the template and assign it to the pages where the modules should not show up. In this clone, omit the positions where the modules appear and even if a module is chosen to appear everywhere it will not appear on those pages that have the cloned template assigned to them.


This is far from ideal and it does create several issues for the administrators, especially those that are not that familiar with the system to begin with.

What we need is an override in the module interface that works opposite to the current selection menu. One where you can choose not to show any module on specific pages. It won't solve (1) but it will solve (2).
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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by corrado444 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:42 pm

In regard to my post above, after I submitted it I started thinking of the "read more" issue, whereas when an article is published on a blog style page/link and the read more link is clicked, the subsequent page inherits the module assignment of the parent page.

I believe this is something that could be fixed at the plug in level rather than at the Joomla core level.

I am specifically thinking of the JCE text editor, which already adds very important features to Joomla. For instance, one way would be to allow to add a link to the page in a "Holding menu" (my name for a menu that is not published to a template position) directly from JCE. JCE already allows to link from an article to a menu item, so once the menu item is created for the article (a functionality present in Joomla 1.0.x but no longer available n 1.5) a JCE plugin would allow you to create a "read more" link separator that points to a specific menu links.

I hope I am being clear above, but once an article has a menu link then it's possible to assign modules to it with the module manager.
Another useful addition to Joomla would be a way to assign modules in bulk to certain links. Basically a way to bypass having to open each and every module to assign them to specific pages.

Unfortunately, my programming knowledge does not allow me to even begin to figure out ow something like this could be accomplished, but logically I believe it would be possible.

Thanks.
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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by TehCrucible » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:24 am

I too have a need of this feature and think its implementation is a great idea.

I am using Joomla 1.0.x for a clients site at the moment. My problem is that I have a custom module set up to show different flash headers on different pages. One of my pages is a component (EstateAgent Improved) and its main page doesn't show up in the list of pages that I can apply my header module to.

This would not be a problem if I had the option of setting the correct header to all pages EXCEPT the other pages that I have created different headers for.

Does this make sense? Does anyone know a workaround for my particular case?

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by corrado444 » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:54 am

In a case like yours I would use the "hidden menu" trick and create links with their own ID.
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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by TehCrucible » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:22 am

Could you perhaps explain this a little clearer for me? I have heard of this trick but dont quite understand. I am already using an unpublished menu to create the links I need (as my menu is built in to the flash) but my component doesn't show the header module when linked to externally. Is this a problem with the component itself?

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by evilc » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:14 am

+1 for the idea of an "all but" setting.

I could *really* do with this.

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by amorino » Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:56 am

Hello guys
Thank you a lot for this thread

26 December 2010 and still nothing :(
I'm encountering exactly the same problem as you encountered 2 years ago :(

Someone have a solution for that please?
Best regards
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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by Per Yngve Berg » Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:33 am

amorino wrote:26 December 2010 and still nothing :(
I'm encountering exactly the same problem as you encountered 2 years ago :(
Not true. It's implemented in Joomla 1.6

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by amorino » Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:28 pm

HELLO,

Thank you for the info but now 1.6 is not to be installed on the production sites
So we have to wait a little bit ;)

I found a pseudo solution using the css display:none on certain pages ;)

Best regards
Amorino

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by Per Yngve Berg » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:17 pm

You can also use php if/endif blocks in the template's index.php. There are several examples in this forum.

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Re: "All But" menu management option

Post by jmuehleisen » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:38 am

Or you can use the "Advanced Module Manager." It has the "all but ..." menu assignment ability and works great with 1.5.

http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions ... ment/10307
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