Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Discussion and education for beginner / novice programmers interested in embarking on the development process to take advantage of the extensible nature of the Joomla! CMS.
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jalil
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Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by jalil » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:16 pm

ok, so there is no such version. i am having a real serious problem with handling these two versions, namely 1.0.12 and 1.5.
1.5 Introduces new concepts i noticed, but i'm not quite done with 1.0.12 or .13 for that matter. This is very distrating for newbies, and i'm pretty sure other newbies would encounter this very same.

should i just dump the whole 1.0 series and go 1.5 ? if i start at 1.0, what is learnt there has to be unlearned at 1.5. if i start at 1.5, i have to adapt to 1.0 way of calling core services ! ARGGGGHHH !

duh, i entered at the wrong phase of Joomla! yulk!

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by Chris Davenport » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:26 pm

A lot depends on what legacy code you need to support.  If you have no legacy code then I'd say forget 1.0.x and get right into 1.5 as it has a better, cleaner, simpler API.

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by jalil » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:15 am

Chris Davenport wrote: A lot depends on what legacy code you need to support.  If you have no legacy code then I'd say forget 1.0.x and get right into 1.5 as it has a better, cleaner, simpler API.

Regards,
Chris.
alrite, coming from you i'd take it as sound. i am uncertain as to what extent of legacy code i would need to support as it i turn depends on many other factors. how quick would the developers make a 1.5 version of their extensions? what if users prefer to stay with the 1.0 stable version, given the enormous extensions avialable and a large community of users with experience. what would be the intention of the user, mere webpage designers or real content developer who would consider what platform they choose to house their content. bla bla bal....

given thsi uncertainty, and given what you recommended, i guess my best choice would be to do both. but that is going to be real hard work and no one likes that. so i'll take it easy and slowly then. the middle road.

thanks much for your advise.

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by AmyStephen » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:07 pm

I've got a few sites going up in Joomla! v 1.5. I have made the decision *not* to use legacy code. I'd rather have a simpler site and grow into the framework. In part, that is my keen interest in our group activities. We can be a part of rebuilding many useful extensions and doing so as a group, using good techniques, and watching over each other's work.

Others might not be able to make that choice.
Amy :)

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by Rogue4ngel » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:08 pm

I'd have to agree here with a focus on 1.5.

Not that I don't think legacy code should be supported, or can't be a part of Coders 101.  I just think you're going to find the joombies are going to be more interested to move forward and upward with this initiative.  I myself being a joombie, I'd much rather devote my efforts to 1.5 than to trying to learn legacy apps, only to have to relearn what I'm doing with the newer code.
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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by jalil » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:45 pm

yes, ok, i'm leaning more towadrs 1.5 now, given the feedback above. but i cannot let go off 1.0 totally as they exist and they're on my table. you people luckier perhaps if you could just warp into 1.5.
the general feeling i get is start with 1.5....and that is noted.

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by mudoch » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:28 pm

I have a site on 1.0x  Although the site would benefit from 1.5 I do see where a module, component, or mambot would affect the whole site or more to the point the desired intent of having the site.

I have need to support readers that are visually challenged thus an accessible site is critical. YES 1.0x can be coaxed into such a design, but why coax when it's in there in 1.5?

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by AmyStephen » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:31 pm

If accessibility is important to you, I'd agree that 1.5 is the way to go.

Have you done any testing with assistive devices with v 1.5? I have not done any work in that area, but certainly would like to learn.

Amy :)

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by mudoch » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:50 pm

Not yet. Got to redo my template and then I can test run it. The person I use for accessible testing uses a Jordy device or a screen reader to read websites and just left for college, I expect they'll be home around Sept/Oct for homecoming weekend. Yes I use an actual person to test, I get a more realist result that way.  I do "fat Finger" things  :P and sometimes the results are well.....  :-[ shocking.  The Alt text on one image came out pronounced "fonie frititened"  :laugh:

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by AmyStephen » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:01 pm

It is good that you are doing this - good for you and good for us to have you available!

Are you using the BEEZ template with v 1.5? Actually, the template override system, in general (which BEEZ utilizes) would likely be of interest to you - maybe you have already worked with it?

Also, the Development Documentation Team is gathering a community group to help document template development. Having someone involved interested in these things would be a REAL plus! Intros - Brainstorming

Amy :)

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by qqwwong » Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:38 pm

Hi,

I understand and agree that one can forget 1.0.x if one doesn't have old sites to support. How about if one have several sites in 1.0.12/13 to support which is the situation I'm in?

Wai

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by soup a loignon y crouton » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:23 am

you need to evaluate clearly your needs and see if you can get by with pure GPL extensions or if you identified already components or modules available under a commercial license.

it is very unlikely that developers developing applications under commercial license will develop a 1.5 version of their products since the license for 1.5 will not accept it.

thus, you need to define if you can develop on your own new components or if you will rely on other developers to bring the needed components. a total rewrite of the large components may take a while before they become available for 1.5

Furthermore coming from 1.0 architecture to 1.5 mvc model  will add a lag time for all developers to adjust to the new API and understand the model.
Last edited by soup a loignon y crouton on Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
note to self : OMG FH UY and IYF

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by louis.landry » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:52 am

soup a loignon y crouton wrote: you need to evaluate clearly your needs and see if you can get by with pure GPL extensions or if you identified already components or modules available under a commercial license.

it is very unlikely that developers developing applications under commercial license will develop a 1.5 version of their products since the license for 1.5 will not accept it.

thus, you need to define if you can develop on your own new components or if you will rely on other developers to bring the needed components. a total rewrite of the large components may take a while before they become available for 1.5

Furthermore coming from 1.0 architecture to 1.5 mvc model  will add a lag time for all developers to adjust to the new API and understand the model.
*sigh* ... this will NOT turn into another debate, but:

The license for 1.0 and for 1.5 is EXACTLY the same.  The GNU/GPL V2.

Please do your homework before making statements like that.

Thanks,

Louis
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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by mudoch » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:59 pm

thus, you need to define if you can develop on your own new components or if you will rely on other developers to bring the needed components. a total rewrite of the large components may take a while before they become available for 1.5

Furthermore coming from 1.0 architecture to 1.5 mvc model  will add a lag time for all developers to adjust to the new API and understand the model.
And thus the very reason for J!101.....

I can understand the concern about our existing sites but if we all help build up J!101 we can better eval our 1.0x sites and maybe even contribute to the re-code efforts of those components we need most to upgrade those sites.

All of us, I'm sure, realize that no system worth using is going to stay static thats why we chose to use a CMS. Also I'm certain no one, especially our site owners, will want to see their sites simply "converted" without testing.

As for the community simply dropping 1.0x... I've not seen any indication of that and I believe we'll be able to find plenty of support for some time to come even after 1.6x becomes a Release Candidate.

For the folks who are just getting into J! with the stable 1.0x again J!101 is where we'll help them ramp up to the soon to be stable 1.5x.

Sorry if this sounds like a soap box response but being a Systems Engineer I do understand the concern, the changes and improvements are simply a fact of all computer applications.

From my view J!101 is being built to address this very concern, thanks to all who have, do, and will contribute, this is the best way to support a valuable product.

Larry

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by AmyStephen » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:04 pm

Nicely stated, Larry. Thanks very much for your encouraging words - it is good to have you in our community!

Amy :)

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by Rogue4ngel » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:06 pm

Looking forward to seeing some of our Joombie's move on to tackle bigger and better things; which I am sure will entail rebuilding some old programs.

We're not just building applications, though, we're building a community of developers who will eventually help to utilize the extensibility of Joomla, and I have no doubt will go on to create great things.

They just needed a place to start.
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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by seadap » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:43 pm

And of course the right tools ;)
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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by Fuqaha » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:15 pm

haha..

jalil, you caught me. I was surprised, really surprised to see the title "Joomla! Version 1.3.4".

Frankly, I dont think that it is much of a hassle to learn 1.0.x and 1.5. At the backend, everything is seemingly the same except for the fact that in 1.5 it is much cleaner and less cluster there. And as for newbies (non technical onces), I will encourage them to learn 1.0.x first since most of present components are for 1.0.x and they will surely be using them.

For coders, I do think the massive change (a good one) from the old 1.0.x to the new 1.5 is a bit distracting, but somehow having known 1.0.x do help a lot. I started to use Joomla since Mambo 4.5 and later 4.5.2 (which was the basis of Joomla 1.0.x). The changes are necessary in order for joomla! to adapt and evolve, which in my personal opinion, I really like 1.5 interface. What really draws me back is the lack of components. That is a small matter anyway, wait till the stable release, we will see an explosion of 1.5 compatible components (i hope).  :P

And jalil, it is your decision.

=)

*hey, i never saw you in Malaysian' forum. another surprise.  8)

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by jalil » Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:51 am

Fuqaha wrote: I really like 1.5 interface. What really draws me back is the lack of components. That is a small matter anyway, wait till the stable release, we will see an explosion of 1.5 compatible components (i hope).  :P
there is somethng very wrong about 1.5 but i just can't put my finger on it yet. its related to the way the mvc model is implemented. but never mind, i should not bother for now.
Fuqaha wrote: *hey, i never saw you in Malaysian' forum. another surprise.  8)
tell me my friend, how many malaysian coders are there...and you would have answered your own question :) , we are a tiny country and ther is need to reach out to the world to get international cooperation in the spirit of goodwill and mutual advancement.
but i do see lots of tiny malaysian joombies up and about, though they are a little busy with apple story and warship2 and luckystrike.... heh  :pop furthermore, the local forum is very well taken care of, thanks to those volunteers there, so absolutely nothing for an ostrich to do, but sure, i'll make it a point to drop in once a while and drop some eggs.

anyway, back to codings, i am new and when i started couple weeks back, i now understand why J!1.5 is totally re-written from scratch. if you speak of evolution, then you know that those that cannot adapt get recycled as carbon-hydrogen-nitrogen, and the codes for mambo-joomla are such that in order to progress further, a rewrite is a must to avoid hospitalisation ( PHP overdose ). ( who the hell invented this clever squigly langauge anyways ! yuk ! )

so there....i have decided that i was born in the wrong epoch and as such, am punished to have to learn both 1.0 & 1.5. so don't talk to me anymore i'm busy studyin. go nag another joombie.
Last edited by jalil on Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by Fuqaha » Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:48 am

haha.. ok2. go read and do great stuff!  :laugh:

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Re: Joomla! Version 1.3.4

Post by jalil » Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:28 pm

Rogue4ngel wrote: We're not just building applications, though, we're building a community of developers who will eventually help to utilize the extensibility of Joomla, and I have no doubt will go on to create great things.

They just needed a place to start.
very encouraging words. thank you.

this is the place, and this one day hopefully will be joomla! university.


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