Congratulations :)

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jgobiz
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Congratulations :)

Post by jgobiz » Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:31 am

Hello Angie,
Hello Robert,

thanks for sharing BEEZ with the community. I really appreciate your work on developing an (the first one i guess) accessible Joomla! template. Please keep on your commitment.

With best regards from fishtown,

Joern :)

P.S.
If the right column is the longest, the text resizer let us knew, that he has a lot of letter appetite  :-[

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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by a.radtke » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:49 am

Hey Joern
If the right column is the longest, the text resizer let us knew, that he has a lot of letter appetite  :-[
It depends on the semantic structure and the CSS possibilities we have. In the normal case I hope people structure there content in the way that the right column contents not more imformation than the main content and the navigation.

If you don't want this, you have to change the document structure in the index.php.

Put the right column in front if the main content and float it right.
But imagine that the semantic structure isn't absolute perfact than, because  in the source additional informations comes before the content and the  linearisation  is broken .

Bye Angie
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by newart » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:55 am

First of all, my great compliments for the great work done and above all for the great idea of delivering a proof of concept of 1.5 templating system...

about the template my first doubt is about the "logo" as it's unliked to the home page. It's just an opinion but I think the home page linked by the logo, too, is better that an unique linked Home swhowing in the path.

I attach a screenshot by Safari 2.0.4 - no problem as you can see! WOW
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by absalom » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:01 am

Nice design..

One question, Angie.  Why does it do no better than the Milkyway template through a basic WAI mechanical test (such as via the Firefox) on a dry run ? (Notwithstanding the fact the mechanical WAI test can be gamed.. which is why Milkyway passes it)

I'd also like to correct a misconception, a whitewashing of history. Templating aimed at accessible solutions and designs have been around since 2003 (back in the Mambo days). Franck (from 55 Thinking) and myself were the first ones on the scene in this respect.

I'll hammer it with a few screen readers tonight and tomorrow.. and hopefully we can get some meaningful usability analysis out of it.

Edits: spelling, history, screen reader testing.
Last edited by absalom on Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by newart » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:29 am

in http://www.joomla-beez.com/ I can see in a demo live site this template. I like the way the width isn't a fixed one. As now I cannot see its code  I wonder if there is a limit for showing an article in the width or an option if an admin want to use it.

I have in my community users with eye disalities and they always say to me that an site for a better reading as to be well separated between messages. I like very much about articles but if you read this http://www.joomla-beez.com/index.php?Itemid=9 you can see the text about Angie Radtke and the module at your right with no delimitation...

Please if my post is out-of-argument or simply not well centered with a template study, say to me that. I have to understand what is the right focus of this thread.
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by absalom » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:59 am

Newart, you are correct. Those with certain eye disabilities read better with more "gutter" whitespace between content, depending how the text is sized. Such eye problems are more prevalent in later life. This is one of the good design choices present within Beez.
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by a.radtke » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:00 am

newart wrote: its code  I wonder if there is a limit for showing an article in the width or an option if an admin want to use it.
I don't no if I understand you right. It's a CSS feature, you can change the width there.
newart wrote: this http://www.joomla-beez.com/index.php?Itemid=9 you can see the text about Angie Radtke and the module at your right with no delimitation...
Please, disable CSS and you will see , what I have done.

Bye Angie
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by newart » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:12 am

a.radtke wrote:
newart wrote: its code  I wonder if there is a limit for showing an article in the width or an option if an admin want to use it.
I don't no if I understand you right. It's a CSS feature, you can change the width there.
I mean that a flexible width is a good feature but if you an article in a "long" display... there is so a flexible witdh with an option for limiting this width. No a CSS modify but an option for selecting just per example:
width 100%
width 100% but limited to 800px

If you see an article in a notebook with a panoramic dispaly and maybe the text is little you see an ugly and a bit disturbing to read article. 
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by a.radtke » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:34 am

Hey ,

I understand you right :You want a template parameter in the backend?
That's not neseccary, because with changing the CSS file , you can do everything you want.
And what happends , if you make your window smaller?

Angie
Last edited by a.radtke on Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by newart » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:53 am

all right, I now understand the philosophy behind the template study, all by modifying CSS. So if it is the goal, the study is how to develop different CSS for different needs, I suppose...  :-\

I mean only to have a parameter for having got a 100% width with a limit, a sort of not bigger than...

The problem of the size detector of your window screen is another problem if you wonder about a window smaller, it isn't my post "suggestion". I don't need a resizer of contents, only a good, beautiful way for reading a text. As absalom said it is only a point of view by certain users.
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by compass » Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:10 pm

I think it is important to understand the real purpose (as I see it) behind Beez. Its a proof of concept using the template overrides. So for example, it includes in in the index.php functions such as skip to navigation, but really its a demonstration of the 1.5 template overrides.

A Joomla page now is made up of 3 semi-independant things:

The core output
The "template" - the CSS and index.php
The "overrides" - an html folder in the template directory

Beez is really a proving ground and demonstration of the 3rd one...

Image

I would encourage you to examine the tutorial... mayb I will spend some time converting it to forum code and post it here....
As now I cannot see its code
You have to download the nightly....

[Edited for clarity]
Last edited by compass on Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by rdeutz » Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:44 pm

compass wrote: I think it is important to understand the real purpose (as I see it) behind Beez. Its NOT really a template, its a proof of concept using the template overrides.
Beez is a real template and it is a proof of concept. 
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by jgobiz » Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:59 pm

absalom wrote: I'd also like to correct a misconception, a whitewashing of history. Templating aimed at accessible solutions and designs have been around since 2003 (back in the Mambo days). Franck (from 55 Thinking) and myself were the first ones on the scene in this respect.
You are right Lawrence, it's a doublefault of mine. I've started my first template with your tutorial and i knew about your engagement for developing accessible websites and templates. Sorry Lawrence.

Best regards,

Joern ;)

Edit: typo
Last edited by jgobiz on Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by AmyStephen » Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:05 pm

Angie and Robert -

I want to add my congratulations and thanks to both of you for sharing your expertise and knowledge with our community!

BEEZ is fantastic and it will be used and studied by many, many people as a guide for how they can take full advantage of Joomla!'s template override system and create accessible sites. I was thrilled to see the Mobile Device link on the BEEZ site, as well.

For those who want to translate the BEEZ website into a different language, I recommend the Firefox extension named FoxLingo. It works very nicely.

Thanks again!
Amy :)

++++

I hope that we all get behind this tangible and positive step forward. BEEZ no doubt took significant effort and this is a congratulatory thread. So, everyone here should be clapping! This is *fantastic* for the people of the world. Please start a new thread for discussion of testing and analysis of history or discounting this solution.

Here, in the Congratulations thread, we say Thanks!

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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by a.radtke » Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:18 pm

Hey Amy ,

thanks for your congratulations. It's very nice to hear this positive feedback.
I feel much better now.

Bye Angie
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by AmyStephen » Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:24 pm

a.radtke wrote: Hey Amy ,

thanks for your congratulations. It's very nice to hear this positive feedback.
I feel much better now.

Bye Angie
PLEASE stay encouraged! You are DOING something! And, by actually accomplishing something and sharing it with the community, you are moving us towards great things!

This is a very big deal - VERY big! I was so happy to see it in the SVN the other day - what a thrill!

Take care! I'll be reading everything you post and learning what I can!  8)
Amy :)

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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by newart » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:45 pm

a.radtke wrote: ...
thanks for your congratulations. It's very nice to hear this positive feedback.
I feel much better now.
...
I'd like to say a lot of thanks! The work is marvellous, I downloaded the last nightly build and so I've seen with my own eyes a state of the art work.

When possible I'd like to open a discussion about a test I'd like to make with disability users...  :-\ but before doing that I ask you if it'd be useful or maybe isn't what needed for BEEZ.

I liked very much this template at my first glimpse at it, and I'd like to contribute...
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by deafbiz » Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:35 pm

I want to say that I'm looking forward to how Joomla 1.5 will simplify accessibility issues for deaf visitors, including yours truly.

Please keep up the good work.

JSG

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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by pvh123 » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:33 pm

Hi Angie,
Just for enthousiastic reasons :D, I put my congrats in your "explanation" post.
So, again congratulations and I will study your efforts to see if I can learn from it and possible use it after that.

Rgrds,
Pieter
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by jlleblanc » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:32 pm

This is going to be a HUGE help here in Washington DC where people ask "Is it 508 compliant?" before signing off on a Joomla! site.
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by absalom » Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:10 am

jlleblanc wrote: This is going to be a HUGE help here in Washington DC where people ask "Is it 508 compliant?" before signing off on a Joomla! site.
It's about as 508 compliant as Milkyway.. (no kidding!)
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Re: Congratulations :)

Post by AmyStephen » Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:31 am

Lawrence -

Dude - This is the "Thank you" and "Congratulations" thread!  ;)

I opened a thread on 508C testing where I would appreciate your considered analysis.

But, here, just say thanks for the work offered our community by Robert and Angie and Barrie. 

Thanks for understanding,
Amy :)


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