Do You Prefer Drag-N-Drop Publishing Over Coding?

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Do You Prefer Drag-N-Drop Publishing Over Coding?

Postby websitedons » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:59 pm

There are extensions available that do what has been branded "Visual Composing". They make content formatting simple, in that a simple drag-n-drop of an object such as a video player, will easily place it where ever in the post one wants it to be seen. If later the desire is to rearrange, it's merely a matter of dragging around the objects. Absolutely no coding seen.

Some notable extensions that support this method are SP Page Builder and JSN Page Builder. Both are commercially sold, and very much worth the investment. Then there's RSPage Builder, and they entered the visual composing arena to knock 'em out! They are giving away their app absolutely free! All they want is your email address. Ain't that some sh^!

Some high tech whiners may object to such "really simple tools" that make website management super simple for the lay-person, but that's just their fear of losing out on something. These visual composing tools are very popular with that competing Blog/CMS, and that's what makes it seem much easier to use. The fact is, a website owner simply wants to use his website simply, and focus on doing business, and if there are tools that will make website content management simple, GET IT!
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Re: Do You Prefer Drag-N-Drop Publishing Over Coding?

Postby mbabker » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:10 pm

If your target market is a userbase that the acronyms CSS, HTML, and PHP scare them, then yes, this is the right type of tooling. Said target market is also a userbase where they are building quite simple websites with either mostly static content or something like a blog. Such tooling should not be considered for high end development.
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Re: Do You Prefer Drag-N-Drop Publishing Over Coding?

Postby websitedons » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:01 pm

mbabker wrote:Such tooling should not be considered for high end development.
Certainly true. The competing CMS seniors think the same as you do, and rightly so, however, the marketing of such apps has led to the overwhelming usage of said CMS. Simple users don't want to know how the coding works, they just want the website to look the way they want it to. Shouldn't they be targeted? Why ignore such a vast base?

This is not about development, rather, about website content management.
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Re: Do You Prefer Drag-N-Drop Publishing Over Coding?

Postby mbabker » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:08 pm

To me, that type of user is honestly better served with a service where all they have to do is drag things around and insert content. I'm not saying it's not a valuable market space, but by choosing a self hosted CMS solution (even WordPress, the open source distro, not Automattic's .com SaaS), you're already jumping in a bit in terms of technical skill and the amount of effort you're willing to put in to maintaining your site.

I don't believe in making tools that are one size fits all. Joomla has tried doing it and it's not succeeding very well at being good at much. I have no problem telling people that Joomla might not fit their needs if they're looking for something very basic; Wix or [spam] and their SaaS platforms will probably suit them better both from a usability and maintenance perspective. But by the time you're seriously evaluating Joomla because of technical reasoning, you're probably at a point where you don't want to be using a page builder and should be doing things the "right" way (right being very subjective).
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Re: Do You Prefer Drag-N-Drop Publishing Over Coding?

Postby websitedons » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:14 am

mbabker wrote:...not saying it's not a valuable market space...
That is major factor. Going after a massive market. If Joomla ignores that group, other projects will take them on and get ahead. Hosted solutions restrict the site owner, in that they can't pack up and move at will. However I do understand there is a general divide between developers and marketers so we agree to disagree.
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Re: Do You Prefer Drag-N-Drop Publishing Over Coding?

Postby webhostuk » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:29 am

Drag and Drop things are still favorites , still more than 50% off market new beginners love drag and Drop types of websites.
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Re: Do You Prefer Drag-N-Drop Publishing Over Coding?

Postby mbabker » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:45 pm

websitedons wrote:However I do understand there is a general divide between developers and marketers so we agree to disagree.

If you're going to keep throwing around some false claim of a community divide, then your discussions are going to end pretty quickly. I do work at a web firm with a client base ranging from folks whose needs are met very easily by a Wix or [spam] solution (and it's something they are happy with) up to a need for custom built applications for an enterprise purpose built on PHP frameworks like Symfony and Laravel, so I do have a lot more experience and perspective than being a "code junkie".

From my experience and perspective, it is just fine that WordPress and Joomla do not ship with a page builder interface as part of their core packages; their ecosystems backfill that desire very nicely. For the users who want something as complex as Joomla with a drag and drop interface, those extensions are just fine. But, using those extensions will make future upgrades very painful because you will in essence vendor lock your entire site's structure to that builder package (I have seen it first hand with a WordPress client and their use of a theme which has a drag and drop builder involved, their content is littered full of vendor specific shortcodes in place of HTML).

So, if you really want that type of interface, I don't see an issue with you using an extension providing that interface, but I don't think the CMS' need to provide that as part of their core feature sets. I also think using them causes issues that will make things like CMS updates or re-theming your site more complex than they need to be, so I would advise not using them if your needs have really grown to a point where you need a self hosted content management solution.
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Re: Do You Prefer Drag-N-Drop Publishing Over Coding?

Postby websitedons » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:00 am

webhostuk wrote:Drag and Drop things are still favorites , still more than 50% off market new beginners love drag and Drop types of websites.
Of the 3 page builder apps noted in the thread, which do you prefer?
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Re: Do You Prefer Drag-N-Drop Publishing Over Coding?

Postby DesignersDwnSth » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:02 pm

Doing things for ourselves, I would have to say coding. However, if we are building a site for the client to manage, we tend to choose the visual route as it's much easier for the end user to understand.

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Re: Do You Prefer Drag-N-Drop Publishing Over Coding?

Postby websitedons » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:33 pm

DesignersDwnSth wrote:However, if we are building a site for the client to manage, we tend to choose the visual route as it's much easier for the end user to understand.
That's what this is all about. What works best for the end user.
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Re: Do You Prefer Drag-N-Drop Publishing Over Coding?

Postby mbabker » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:51 pm

websitedons wrote:
DesignersDwnSth wrote:However, if we are building a site for the client to manage, we tend to choose the visual route as it's much easier for the end user to understand.
That's what this is all about. What works best for the end user.

Just because something is easier for the end user does not necessarily make it better. There are a lot of things to take into consideration, including vendor lock (because the builder is probably going to cause most of your site's content to be structured in a way that isn't easily reversible to another format if you choose to abandon it), performance, and scalability. I maintain that a site builder might be OK if you are building simpler sites with low expectations, but it is not an appropriate tool for higher end deployments.
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