Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

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Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby darb » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:25 am

Dear Joomlers worldwide and especially Joomla German users,

Its not my business but as a Joomla fan you ask yourself why we don't support and make our own 3:pds ecosystem better by using them and support them? >:(

I noticed this when the German forum https://forum.joomla.de/ Burning Board® using a non Joomla forum commercial software instead of supporting an open source Joomla extension like Joomla extension Kuena forum. https://www.kunena.org/ why you took this decision and why can't you use Kuena instead? Is there not a German translation or what?

So while winning in the court https://community.joomla.org/blogs/comm ... court.html for being an important tax issue etc for a non-profit German org I still I think we also then should support our ideas of really supporting open source non profile software ie Kuena et al and help support this free open source Joomla extension community for the better of all Joomla users worldwide.

For me this is similar like having the German Joomla site https://www.joomla.de/ running on Episerver bcs it's the leading 2017 Web Content Management system. :(

So why don't you support Joomlas free open source extensions and its developers? What do you think? Is this a good decision?
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby mbabker » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:34 pm

How about posting to their forum asking them instead of coming here and starting a flame war?

There is no requirement that Joomla sites or groups only use Joomla. Just look at this forum software, or some of the other software in use here on joomla.org.
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby darb » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:42 pm

mbabker wrote:How about posting to their forum asking them instead of coming here and starting a flame war?

There is no requirement that Joomla sites or groups only use Joomla. Just look at this forum software, or some of the other software in use here on joomla.org.


Hi Michael,

I don’t speak good German and this is something that doesn’t only consider German forum software.

I have no intention to start a flame war but to be transparent about my opinion/question about this issue and let people openly discuss about how we view things as an open source community working together for the benefits of all.

I think it’s good always to support our 3pds extensions developer’s projects and to have some guidelines to use their extension as much as possible for many of Joomlas own sites so we also promote Joomla and its 3pds at the same time. It’s about marketing too.

FYI I have been working with phpBB forum that’s used here for Joomla since The Finn started it and I also were the one that promote to use it for Joomla instead of Fireboard (Kuena) since the beginning bcs I know it was better than Fireboard at that time bcs I used it a lot.

But now things have changed and I think our first alternative should always be to use as much as possible of Joomlas existing echo system and have some good arguments if we don’t do that.

So even you are right by Joomlas user policies? that there are no requirements to use Joomla for its sites and that argument I don’t like, it should at least be consider to be used first hand by all Joomla community sites in different locations by some terms of references.

If some people have other opinions about it or if it’s of none importance for Joomla as a whole pls let Joomla people at least discuss here without policing them were to do it.

Cheers!
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby mbabker » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:46 pm

No, we do not mandate that all websites from users or groups affiliated with Joomla must use the Joomla software. Some people made themselves look very silly trying to pressure a former project lead to migrate their personal site to Joomla simply because they had a leadership role within Joomla.

Yes, the use of Joomla should be encouraged, but no it should not be mandated. There is a fine line between the two that should be respected.
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby sozzled » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:26 pm

I agree with @mbabker. This topic seem to be about dissing people in another country, in another place, about the choices they've made—good choices or bad choices—to accommodate members of that foreign community who enjoy Joomla and are eager to help one another with it in their own unique way(s). I see no constructive purpose in shaming foreign communities by naming them here in this place.

My own preference notwithstanding (and here, in Australia, the Australian community has chosen Joomla (and a Joomla forum extension for our discussions), these are issues for each community to decide for itself. There are several forum extensions available for Joomla—the one mentioned in the OP is just one of them. The one mentioned earlier is neither the best nor the worst of those options.

My involvement with the specific product that was mentioned may preclude me from offering unbiased input to this discussion; I've been both supportive of the product and I've been critical of it. I've used other forum extensions, too.

While it may be desirable for Joomla groups around the world to use Joomla products and base their communities' activities the Joomla framework—to showcase its features and the utilitarian value of Joomla—these are not matters that should be mandated—as @mbabker neatly puts it—or requisite facilities within those communities. Whatever works best, in my opinion. 8)
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby Webdongle » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:51 pm

Would it not be better for https://forum.joomla.de/ to follow the same format as https://forum.joomla.org/ ??? That would show uniformity. However as https://forum.joomla.de/ is visually different to https://forum.joomla.org/ then it does show they are not connected.

Was special permission needed to create joomla.de or can joomla.anything be created without fear of a legal challenge ? joomla.uk is available (well was until someone reads this). joomla . org . uk redirects to various commercial sites.
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby sozzled » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:08 pm

@Webdongle: regulation of domain names is somewhat off-topic. In Australia, for example, 2LD names are regulated by AUDA. Other countries may have similar regulatory bodies.

Joomla® is a registered trademark of Open Source Matters, Inc. in the U.S. and/or other countries. Websites that use the name should provide a standard disclaimer along the lines of "<sitename> is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Joomla! Project or Open Source Matters. The Joomla! name and logo is used under a limited license granted by Open Source Matters the trademark holder in the United States and other countries." But, again, that's a little off-topic.

I suppose that the answer to your question, "Can joomla.anything be created without fear of a legal challenge?" would be no.
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby mbabker » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:42 pm

I honestly have no clue how things have been working with local top level domains, but I am aware that teams in many countries do have a joomla.TLD for that nation and I believe required permission from the Trademark Team for their use (not much different than use for the JoomlaDay marks or domains with that in it)

- https://www.joomla.de/
- https://www.joomla.fr/
- http://www.joomla.it/
- http://www.joomla.org.il/

While it'd be nice if the project had the resources to either manage localized websites for each nation's TLD, or the resources to work with the web teams for each nation's site (where one exists) to have international consistency, unfortunately we just don't have those resources. We've gotten lucky though with being able to present our downloads portal and the Joomla! 3.x landing page with a plethora of translations, and being able to integrate those directly into our joomla.org network (versus relying on forwarding/redirecting to another site).
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby darb » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:13 am

Hi guys,
my English is not good as you native speakers to explain what I mean.

"..mandate that all websites from users or groups affiliated with Joomla must use the Joomla software"

So I don’t want to "mandate anyone" if that is how this was interpreted and especially about any private persons Michael.
So I agree with you about the silliness "pressure a former project lead to migrate their personal site to Joomla" should of course not happen. Hope you understand that I didn’t mean to do something like this bcs that’s not something I like at all. But I want Joomla people also to understand how important Joomlas 3pds are for Joomla as a whole and how we can be better encourage to use these as much as possible.

But I think Michael, that its very different for example, i f you represent yourself ( as a private Joomla user/Joomla private official person web site blog etc) comparing that to an official Joomla website.

I talking about guidelines/policies and not that these are "mandates" ( "and to have some guidelines to use their extension as much as possible for many of Joomlas own sites so we also promote Joomla" ). Just something like you try to first-hand use Joomla and Joomla extensions and if they don’t fulfil your needs/requirements then you choose another solution.

Sozzeled I hope you understand that I don’t want to dissing people in another country I just asked about the "German Joomla community" as an example and why they took a decision to not using a Joomla forum extension instead of a non-Joomla commercial extension? It's interesting to know why our own products can't be used instead another solution.

So this conclusion is wrong sozzled it's not about this as you say. "This topic seem to be about dissing people in another country, in another place, about the choices they've made—good choices or bad choices—to accommodate members of that foreign community who enjoy Joomla and are eager to help one another with it in their own unique way(s)." And it's not about judging any favourable Joomla extension just to mention that there are good Joomla solutions for official Joomla web sites.

And that leads to the main question why we don’t have guidelines/policies of how official Joomla sites should use as many Joomla/Joomla extensions as possible first-hand before using something else or if we don’t care about uniformity as Webdongle says?

Joomlas resources & international consistency. It would just be good enough with a 2 pages policy document that say what is Joomlas general guidelines/policies.
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby sozzled » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:29 am

I'll keep this brief. The subject of this topic, and the opening sentence, is directed specifically to our German colleagues. I think it's very wrong to single out any community, even as an example. and to judge how that community conducts its own affairs.

I know that I would be terribly offended if I read a topic with the subject "Why Australian community not using Joomla best practice?", written here in this forum and written by someone who is not an Australian. Think about how the German community must feel to read what we foreigners (to them) are writing here.

No more from me. I would like to see this topic closed from further discussion.
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby darb » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:04 am

This is just coming out of topic and we have different interpretations. And I don't want to pinpoint out any "German colleagues"

I try to talk about an official Joomla German community site.

As a conclusion I don't see a community juridical as the same as a single person ie "is directed specifically to our German colleagues"

German collogues is independently people and a German community is an entity of different people that register to that community by their free will.

So that mean it could be Austrian people that speak German, Switzerland people that speak German etc being part of that German Joomla official community or other people as well or as Michael proposed that I should register/post there instead.

And I am not a German sozzeled.

Instead of dictate what should be discussed in forums or not it would be better to stop posting here if you have nothing constructive to contribute to the topic.
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby brian » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:36 am

@webdongle joomla.uk is not available. registration of .uk domains is restricted to the owners of the equivalent .co.uk domain until June 2019
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby mbabker » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:35 pm

And again, all I can say is go to the German community and ask them because they will be the only ones who can answer your questions. Nobody sitting on the leadership teams is going to do that, or tell them they must migrate their domain to use only Joomla tooling and any discussion on this forum about their decisions will accomplish nothing useful.
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby Webdongle » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:14 pm

@Brian

ah yes I see now thanks and that is already taken
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Re: Why German Joomla community not using supporting great Joomla extension?

Postby MyFirstPage » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:00 pm

hmm its a little bit racist...
You mean the Joomla Group from Germany right? German is a Language who is spoken in many different Country who have nothing to do with Germany.
If you want I can ask in the Joomla Group from Germany.


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