Is there a future for this forum?

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sozzled
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Is there a future for this forum?

Post by sozzled » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:14 pm

For the past 15½ years The Joomla! Forum™ has been the main meeting-place for people to discuss issues, solve all manner of web-related problems, seek advice and offer input. This was the reason I joined the forum.

Things change over time, of course. The forum is not the meeting place that it once was. Discussions about development issues have been hived off elsewhere (firstly to SourceForge, then to JoomlaCode and now to GitHub). Discussions about community events, country-specific activities, management, etc. have, likewise, moved to other platforms.

The Joomla Community Magazine, documentation, etc. have also moved away from this forum. Even the official news announcements are located elsewhere. For many of us it feels like going through a ritual—or using a process—to reveal a role for the forum in this.

So what's left for The Joomla! Forum™? Is there a future for it and, more importantly, do you care? It would be good to know what thoughts people may have. If you don't have a view (or you would rather not express that view) then we can leave it at that. If this discussion does not yield any responses then I think that the absence of that discussion says much about the future, doesn't it? If people still believe in this forum then we can gauge the level of support by the presence or absence of any follow through to have a discussion.

I think that The Joomla! Forum™ has lost its significance as a meeting place for people to discuss issues, solve web-related problems, seek advice and offer input. That's my opinion. I hope that I can be proven wrong.

Discuss, please.
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by Webdongle » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:51 am

The forum is the only place where certain sarcastic devs get moderated correctly.
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by gws » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:31 am

I think that The Joomla! Forum™ has lost its significance as a meeting place for people to discuss issues, solve web-related problems, seek advice and offer input. That's my opinion. I hope that I can be proven wrong.
Very sadly I agree with sozzled this forum has lost its charm from the heady early days of the forum. Brought about in part by the various "secret squirrel clubs" within the joomlasphere, look at the current strife in the J4 dev areas....

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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by brian » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:18 pm

> The forum is the only place where certain sarcastic devs get moderated correctly.

And you wonder and complain that devs dont come here
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by Webdongle » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:57 pm

brian wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:18 pm
...
And you wonder and complain that devs dont come here
Nope I don't wonder why at all.
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by sozzled » Sat May 08, 2021 10:23 pm

Dear community,

I started this topic a month ago because I want the best for the community and I think that things have changed for the worse over the past year or two as far as the value of The Joomla Forum™ is concerned. As I wrote at the outset:
sozzled wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:14 pm
Things change over time: [various community activities] have been hived off elsewhere (firstly to SourceForge, then to JoomlaCode and now to GitHub). Discussions about community events, country-specific activities, management, etc. have, likewise, moved to other platforms.
It's disconcerting that certain discussion categories still exist on this forum that give a sense of activity w.r.t. among others.

All of the foregoing forum categories have been superseded by Glip, Google Docs, GitHub or other private repositories known only to people who may involved with them. Open Source Matters, which has a broad oversight of the project—insofar as it has responsibility for legal and financial affairs—provides some support for the project but, for all practical purposes, the various Joomla! working groups have become separate entities unto themselves without a common purpose. The common purpose is to build a strong, vibrant and engaged community and culture dedicated to people. I say, without apology, that the purposes of these working groups are not in common with one another; I say that the purposes of these working groups are self-serving and self-interested.

I joined this community over a decade ago because I was inspired by the Joomla! mission statement. The very name Joomla means "all together as a whole".

From my observations of the Joomla! project over the past couple of years, the project is not moving forward "as a whole". I base these observations on researching conversations in Glip, Google Docs, GitHub, The Joomla Forum™ together with reading-between-the-lines minutes of OSM Board and working group team meetings. I'm not professing any special clairvoyant talent in reaching my conclusions from minutes: there's a lot more un-said and un-minuted that what has been documented in the minutes.

I am not writing this to accuse or complain about the failure of those responsible for the project. We are all together, as a whole, collectively responsible for the project. We can't simply abdicate our responsibility to a few people and expect them to carry the burden but, by the same token, we need to know if those people who have volunteered themselves to lead the project have taken on too much responsibility and need our help.

If working groups are feeling overburdened then we need to know. We need to know so that we can help ... not to criticise them for failing. So, I'm not writing this to criticise the failure of the Joomla! project or the people who manage The Joomla Forum™. I'm not writing this to sound negative. In fact, my intention is the reverse.

No one person can carry the burden of leading a group of people if the people they intend to lead are not interested in where that person wants to go. I think this is a very important conversation that we need to have. I know for a fact that at least a dozen people I've spoken with over the past few weeks feel exactly the same as I do but, for reasons best known to themselves, consider that it's futile to express their views on this forum. That disappoints me: it disappoints me to know that others feel exactly as I feel but feel totally powerless to make a difference.

Can we make a difference? Has life-support for the J! community been terminated?
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by erwinthedevil » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:12 am

I think the Joomla forum is still very much needed. If someone has problem about joomla, they will come to joomla forum.
Yeah, that's my opinion.

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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by JTema » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:50 am

I think with the rising of other social platforms forums have lost their popularity but the best way to give free support for such communities seems to be forums.
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by AMurray » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:04 am

I've seen a marginal increase in new users on this forum - both to the forum and to Joomla itself so .....whether it's 1 or 100,000, what's the difference (well 99,999 but that's beside the point). :)
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by Bikerdave » Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:53 pm

The answer is of course there is a future for this Forum its just not the same forum it was because life moves on and things change. Just because the original contributors and possibly users of the forum have gone elsewhere that doesn't mean there is no need nor future for this one.

Perhaps the real question is WHY have those people gone elsewhere?

Rather than being the only place for Joomla to be discussed perhaps it should be the focus tying together other places?
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by darb » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:21 pm

"Rather than being the only place for Joomla to be discussed perhaps it should be the focus tying together other places?"

Good idea.

How?

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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by Bikerdave » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:20 pm

darb wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:21 pm
"Rather than being the only place for Joomla to be discussed perhaps it should be the focus tying together other places?"

Good idea.

How?

I have no idea. I have never been involved in the development of Joomla nor the 'management' of it and am not aware of and don't use any other forum for Joomla issues.

Reading between the lines of this thread I am under the impression that there is a divergence of factions within the dev team, but even if that is wrong, the best people to answer how, are those that know what the forum was. This is all I have known.
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by Webdongle » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:18 am

Bikerdave wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:53 pm
...
Rather than being the only place for Joomla to be discussed perhaps it should be the focus tying together other places?
Why?
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https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by Bikerdave » Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:55 pm

Webdongle wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:18 am
Bikerdave wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:53 pm
...
Rather than being the only place for Joomla to be discussed perhaps it should be the focus tying together other places?
Why?
Why Not?

If you guys are not happy with the way it is at the moment then perhaps you should come up with a revamp and reinvention or whatever the buzz words are these days.
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by Webdongle » Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:50 pm

@Bikerdave
Because splitting the communication channels means that only some would be included in each channel. But if every general discussion is in this forum then nearly everyone can be included.

Why do you think it would be a good idea to have different channels when that excludes many?
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by Bikerdave » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:03 am

Webdongle wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:50 pm
@Bikerdave
Because splitting the communication channels means that only some would be included in each channel. But if every general discussion is in this forum then nearly everyone can be included.

Why do you think it would be a good idea to have different channels when that excludes many?
I don't, I think one forum is the best option. However as the reaction to my butting into your discussion seems to be pretty hostile I will butt out and leave you to reminisce.
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by Webdongle » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:34 am

Bikerdave wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:03 am
I don't, I think one forum is the best option. However as the reaction to my butting into your discussion seems to be pretty hostile I will butt out and leave you to reminisce.
Not hostile at all, I simply asked why you thought that and gave you my opinion when you asked for it.

My reasoning may be right or it may be wrong but it is my opinion. I am interested in your reasoning but if you wish to give an opinion without saying why then then fine.
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by holdenh13 » Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:37 am

Well, I just joined to learn more about the CMS, so I hope there is. I've only ever used Wordpress but am looking for something new to try.

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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by nfbauti » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:56 pm

The forum is more alive than ever, the help is unconditional and the support is good, also more users are arriving from other CMS especially WordPress and all thanks to the problem they have with the Gutenberg plugin and the discontinuation of the classic editor.

The logical thing to think that extension vendors have their own products and their own forums. Why ask for help in the Joomla forum when I buy a product that has its own support?

Contrary to everything, Joomla improves by leaps and bounds and covers the needs to have a robust and professional website backed by excellent plugins both free and paid, a good private support system in each component and I publish with the Joomla forum.

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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by Webdongle » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:38 pm

nfbauti wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:56 pm
... especially WordPress and all thanks to the problem they have with the Gutenberg plugin and the discontinuation of the classic editor.
...
Yes the problem with auto updates https://www.searchenginejournal.com/wor ... rs/399647/
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by nfbauti » Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:34 pm

And even worse with the Gutenberg plugin problem, many users are abandoning WP to go to other CMS and come to our beloved Joomla and are totally welcome ;)

https://wordpress.org/support/plugin/gutenberg/reviews/

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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by Webdongle » Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:26 pm

Looks like the tortoise and the hare.
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https://www.weblinksonline.co.uk/updating-joomla.html
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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by AfterUs » Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:44 pm

I think this is a common issue for all the programming forums. And the main reason they are fading is because StackOverflow accumulates all that problem-question-solution traffic now.

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Re: Is there a future for this forum?

Post by Makavelli » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:11 pm

AfterUs wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:44 pm
I think this is a common issue for all the programming forums. And the main reason they are fading is because StackOverflow accumulates all that problem-question-solution traffic now.
Agreed, and since SO has some rather stiff rules on the type of questions allowed there, these kind of forums should be nicely able to fit into a niche of useful information concerning open-ended development discussion


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