Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by scrap2do » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:40 pm

One day I'm going to find a CMS that stays the same from year to year. One were people add modules and the like to improve functionality but the core remains the same. Something like the C programming language ... never changing. That way, when I build something I get to keep it. Kinda like my house ... additions here and there but still the same house.

 
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by pe7er » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:16 pm

scrap2do wrote:One day I'm going to find a CMS that stays the same from year to year. One were people add modules and the like to improve functionality but the core remains the same.
I do understand your concern but IMHO that will be an impossible task...

BTW: While some of Joomla's php code has been improved over the last 2,5 years,
the database structure has remained exactly the same (the database structure of Joomla 1.0.13 is not different from 1.0.1).
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by muddauber » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:44 pm

PHP, MySQL and new protocols change, which causes all those
that use these protocols to change. Joomla has made some far-reaching
changes in its framwork which will help deal with these things in the
future.

Going to a new generation of Joomla is a natural progression and
needed to provide extenisibility.

What is so great about Open Source is, if you choose not to make
a change, older applications can still work, you can set your server
to use older PHP, and you are not being forced to "upgrade."

I agree with persevener, it would be an impossible task to make
a CMS that didn't change, except you can go VirtualMachine (VM) in
the future. I can still run CP/M, DOS and TRSDOS on emulated machines.
Once I accomplish it, I end up saying to myself, "what's the point"
There may be a time in the future where people can go back in
time and run VM worlds with Lynx or Mozilla-Only browsers and
we can keep our old code on those servers. In fact, with some of
the server configurations I have had to use, I feel like to go back in time quite
often.

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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by scrap2do » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:43 am

Yep    :(

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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by newart » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:19 pm

2 things to say:

1 is about Drupal PHP: "only Drupal 4.7.5 (and greater) and 5.0 (and greater) run on PHP 5.2, older Drupal versions do not. We recommend using the latest version of PHP 4.x. or 5.x for security and future compatibility." on http://drupal.org/requirements and for our dear joomla please take a look at http://gophp5.org/

--> Image

The 2nd thing to say is: happy new year joomla friends!  :)
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by sclg » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:54 am

ircmaxell wrote: What it all boils down to is simple:

Joomla is not the end all be all for all sites.

Drupal is not the best for all sites

CMS (x) is not the best for all sites.

It depends on your needs.  There is no 100% solution out there for ANYTHING.  When you figure out the needs you have, find the best solution by testing and evaluating the different options.  Joomla is not perfect, nor will it ever be (Nothing against the devs, but it won't be perfect).  Linux is not perfect, Apple is not perfect (I don't even need to mention MS). 

The fact is, for a lot of needs, Joomla is a one stop shop.  But not every need.  There are instances when other better, cheaper alternatives exist.  Why do you think Google wrote their own web server?  Apache works, so why write GWS?  Because it fits their needs best.
That's one of the most sensible posts here  :)
I use Joomla when I can as it's easy to use and does most things well and Drupal when I can't - like a site where I need complex access control.
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by ice9design » Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:01 pm

good article.  I had come up against several of the drawbacks to joomla ie one pw for serval sites and thought I missing something.  I may give Drupal a try at some point but for the time being Joomla ticks my boxes.

One remaining question: if you can't implement memberships using joomla how can you create an ecommerce site?

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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by arlen » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:17 pm

Just to revisit the idea:

I'm keeping up with both CMS's and I'm seeing both of them close the gap where they trail the other. The choice is getting closer.

My opinion on what is the principal weakness of each will vary, depending usually upon what's been giving me the most trouble lately, but where I'm at right now is that:

1) Drupal is harder for the non-technical to work with.

2) Joomla needs a lot of help to create a good workflow for organizations with many people supporting the site.

I've purposefully kept those statements brief because I'm not intending to start a debate on the issue. I'm willing to elaborate if necessary, but my aim is just to give my best advice on the criteria for choosing between the systems.

If you have a good support team but need a lot of different roles for contributors, pick Drupal. If you have a small staff contributing to the website which doesn't need compartmentalization, then pick Joomla.

Beyond that, I'm not so sure anymore there is a significant difference between the two.

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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by domineaux » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:11 am

There are significant differences between them.

Drupal has extension modules that are generalized or non-specific function, Joomla has extension modules that are specific and complete.

You can do quite abit more with Drupal, if you don't need all the elements of a competed Joomla type extension.

Building a downloads section in Drupal takes a very experienced site builder.  Drupal has every module you need to build it.

The problem is working with the various Drupal modules to arrive at a best solution to suit your need.

You can spend days loading and installing modules that may or not do the job.

You can download the Docman or Remository and have it working on your site in about one hour with Joomla.

Don't take this wrong. There are some very exciting things for site builders in Drupal, but Rome (Drupal) was not built (learned) in a week.

One thing I should make clear. There are enough completed competent third party modules available with Drupal to do just about anything.

The skill needed is being able to put all the building blocks together to create what you want.

There are only a few Drupal modules that are all inclusive for immediate placement in your sites.

Again, with Joomla you can download an extension that is a complete item of interest for your sites and you can apply it now.

Effectively, building content of interest in a Drupal site requires alot of knowledge about what you are logically trying to accomplish.

You must thoroughly understand just what the specialized Drupal modules are capable of and how to put them together in such fashion as to build the finished site content desired.


There are enough competent modules you can do just about anything without coding Drupal.

You can also code things in Drupal if you like or get frustrated enough.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I thought I should add this, since I thought abit more about Drupal.

You can think of Drupal modules as blocks of code that for the most part are very well done, and seemlessly integrate for site builders.

The site builder in turn builds from those blocks of code the kind of site content he needs.


Naturally, Drupal attracts more experienced site builders who have specific needs.  They can build some very special content into their sites, but not quickly as a rule.

If you want to build competent sites fast Joomla is best. Even if you have many years of experience with Drupal there is still no way you can produce competent well designed Drupal sites as fast as Joomla sites.

There is alot of interest in Drupal from IBM and other major players associated with software and IT business.  I think alot of that interest is because programmers like stuff that challenges their logic and programming skills. They also like to produce very specific web applications for their clients.
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by arlen » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:23 am

I know a lot of folks, myself included, who might argue the time portion of your comment. For example, I saw a couple of folks put together a Drupal site in about 15 minutes, just today. But this isn't the real place for that discussion.

As for the general/specific contrasts you make, well I thought I pretty much covered that in my point #1. If you've got the chops, or your staff has, there's not a significant difference between the setup of the two.
There is alot of interest in Drupal from IBM and other major players associated with software and IT business.  I think alot of that interest is because programmers like stuff that challenges their logic and programming skills. They also like to produce very specific web applications for their clients.
That's just spin. :( The same point could be spun the other way: programmers don't like having to wrestle with an application to get the precise output they want from it, they way they usually had to do with Joomla. Be careful when you start assuming you know people's motives. It says more about you than it does about them. I know quite a few folks who regularly install Drupal sites (in fact, in my circle I'm in the distinct minority as someone who installs joomla). None of them work for those "major players" you speak of.

1.5 is a major step forward for joomla in that direction, in terms of being a *content* management system (as opposed to a *design* management system -- you want to gauge the difference between the two systems, ask yourself how easily you can get *just* the content back from your CMS, without adornment). I know until 1.5 it wasn't possible for me to get the output from the joomla core that I wanted to get, nor from most modules for that matter. I worked with what I could get, but it was harder than it should have been. I've not played enough with the various builds of 1.5 (I've been peeking at it since RC2) to state positively that I now can get everything the way I want it, but I can't offhand think of a counterexample, which says a lot.

Don't worry, Amy, I'm sure I'll find something to grumble about eventually.

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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by domineaux » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:47 pm

I know a lot of folks, myself included, who might argue the time portion of your comment. For example, I saw a couple of folks put together a Drupal site in about 15 minutes, just today. But this isn't the real place for that discussion.
Just a quick note -  I can pop up a site in 15 minutes in Drupal, but only with basic stuff on it. I might even get a few blocks up.
That is not realistic for building sites. You're going to have to add features and that's when you start spending all the time.

Also, Drupal to this point doesn't have or use a WYSIWYG editor.  There are third party contributions for the TinyMCE, FCKeditor and others.  They all have problems, and most have real problems for users just installing them.

One biggy for most of us who have had security problems - Drupal only allows users to use Full HTML - PHP - filtered HTML(like wordpress default) for text entry.  The filtered HTML isn't badl, but it's kinda dark ages as far as text editing nowadays.  UBB code would be ideal, but it isn't available.
-------------------------

I said:
There is alot of interest in Drupal from IBM and other major players associated with software and IT business.  I think alot of that interest is because programmers like stuff that challenges their logic and programming skills. They also like to produce very specific web applications for their clients.
This is very true. Here is a link to the IBM site with a whole series of articles and some very specific articles dealing with Drupal.

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/ibm/o ... ement.html

Effectively --- Drupal should probably not be a first choice for most people, that is, unless they want very specific things from their websites.  They also have to be willing to work for those specific things.

IMO - there is a place for both, but when I tackle Drupal projects I always have to put on my learning hat and get ready for a long voyage.  LOL

I love Joomla... It took me longer 2 days ago to Unzip and FTP Joomla 1.5 installation iles to my server than it did to have a fully operating site with a docman download sections and the great core stuff working.  I've also got a first rate site in appearance and features.  I can spend a couple hours to day applying some components and mods to make it even better.

That is hard to beat



A major thing I left out:

All my experience has been with the previous 1.0 versions of Joomla.  I have just seriously started with 1.5.  I built several sites with an early RC, but had a few issues and put them in park.  I'm darned excited about taking my new little Joomla 1.5 stable toolkit, and some of the contest themes and see what I can do with it.

I'm like a four year old that just got his first box of Lego, "Now what can I do with that".


 


 
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by AmyStephen » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:38 pm

arlen wrote: I know until 1.5 it wasn't possible for me to get the output from the joomla core that I wanted to get, nor from most modules for that matter. I worked with what I could get, but it was harder than it should have been. I've not played enough with the various builds of 1.5 (I've been peeking at it since RC2) to state positively that I now can get everything the way I want it, but I can't offhand think of a counterexample, which says a lot.
Loving those template overrides!  :-*
domineaux wrote: I love Joomla... It took me longer 2 days ago to Unzip and FTP Joomla 1.5 installation iles to my server than it did to have a fully operating site with a docman download sections and the great core stuff working.  I've also got a first rate site in appearance and features.  I can spend a couple hours to day applying some components and mods to make it even better.

That is hard to beat
In a nutshell, Joomla! v 1.5!

That from two people I know to be as non-cheerleader like as can be. Those are very powerful testimonies to the good work our developers have done.  :pop

Now, take those comments and a good long look at what pre-university students can develop in a matter of days using the new application development environment. Without training. Without good documentation. Then, consider what our future holds.
arlen wrote: Don't worry, Amy, I'm sure I'll find something to grumble about eventually.
And so, it goes...the Joomla! community continues to move forward!  8) Towards ACL improvements, SEF URL improvements, finding ways to better handle user generated duplicate content, tagging, integrating Microformats and RDF as we lumber towards the (in hushed whisper) "Semantic Web", Error Reporting, SEO improvements, Internationalization, integration with the social networking environments that engulf us. No rest for the weary! There is so much more to do if we let our grumbling motivate ourselves into action.

Congratulations to our amazing Joomla! community on Joomla! v 1.5! Thanks to each of you who have helped make it possible.

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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by shantanubala » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:00 pm

Loving those template overrides!  :-*
I can most definitely agree  ;)

Drupal is great for specific purposes, but IMO the Joomla! 1.5 templating system is yet to be beaten, and the Mootools... Let's just say it's a good idea we didn't choose Prototype and Scriptaculous like our good friends at Wordpress.

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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by arlen » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:19 pm

Effectively --- Drupal should probably not be a first choice for most people, that is, unless they want very specific things from their websites.  They also have to be willing to work for those specific things.
I think our entire discussion has been like me saying "The sky is blue" and you saying "No the grass is green!" No argument at all that Drupal requires more tech knowledge. It's what I've said all along, in fact. The tech level of the group working the site was my primary factor for choosing Drupal, remember?
IMO the Joomla! 1.5 templating system is yet to be beaten
Sorry, that superlative cannot go unchallenged. It's definitely not unbeaten. Heck, it's not even what you could call innovative. Joomla is just now getting a templating system equal to one that other systems have had for years. (In keeping with the thread, it's not all that different from the templating system Drupal has used for quite some time now.) Let's face it, MVC is hardly a new concept. That's one reason I've been so frustrated with joomla 1.0.x's output. (I'm not belittling the effort it required to get here, just acknowledging the fact that Joomla is hardly the first across the line with an MVC templating pattern. The original design of the Mambo core, which became joomla's, was a real mess and getting it modernized so that MVC was possible was anything but a trivial task.)

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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by domineaux » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:24 pm

Arlen said:  think our entire discussion has been like me saying "The sky is blue" and you saying "No the grass is green!" No argument at all that Drupal requires more tech knowledge. It's what I've said all along, in fact. The tech level of the group working the site was my primary factor for choosing Drupal, remember?
LOL - :laugh: I often respond on threads, because other people follow them and they're interested to know more. 

I wasn't trying to teach you.  OK...  :-[
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by shantanubala » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:14 am

Sorry, that superlative cannot go unchallenged. It's definitely not unbeaten. Heck, it's not even what you could call innovative. Joomla is just now getting a templating system equal to one that other systems have had for years. (In keeping with the thread, it's not all that different from the templating system Drupal has used for quite some time now.) Let's face it, MVC is hardly a new concept. That's one reason I've been so frustrated with joomla 1.0.x's output. (I'm not belittling the effort it required to get here, just acknowledging the fact that Joomla is hardly the first across the line with an MVC templating pattern. The original design of the Mambo core, which became joomla's, was a real mess and getting it modernized so that MVC was possible was anything but a trivial task.)
Yes, but after making templates for a few CMS's (Wordpress, A little bit of Drupal, B2Evo, and Joomla) I'd have to say that it was the easiest in Joomla! 1.5. No excessive PHP statements, in fact, only a few jdoc statements. All a person needs is some web design knowledge. It really didn't take much effort. It took a little more dissecting and experimenting for other CMS's. I should say this: It's easier, not necessarily functionally better. And in my mind, easy is better. If I have to exert less energy trying to figure the whole thing out, it is a better CMS - because in the end that's what a CMS is for, better organization. It's almost very similar to the Mac/PC debate. there's really no debate. It's just what you prefer for a specific task.

And as far as Javascript goes, I'm a Mootools addict. Drupal's javascript library (I believe it was jQuery?) is something different, but correct me if I'm wrong. I love the Object Oriented programming from the framework side. It takes work to make something like Mootools. After fumbling with C++, I really love the reusable and modular code. Mootools is one-of-a-kind, and there are people that don't really care for it, and people that absolutely love its markup. I'm one of the latter.

That's my 2 cents, and I guess that it's just because Joomla! has served my purpose, and that's all I needed of a CMS. Not only do I like it because of it's deep extension library, but also its choice of Mootools, and an extension system that I think is awesome.

I never liked Joomla! 1.0. It was a pain to work. 1.5 refines it to the point where I love Joomla! and have almost rediscovered it. I dunno about you, but that basically sums it up on my side. Yes, there are things that may DO more, but personally, I prefer a CMS that's allows me to do less.

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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by arlen » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:06 am

I never liked Joomla! 1.0. It was a pain to work. 1.5 refines it to the point where I love Joomla! and have almost rediscovered it. I dunno about you, but that basically sums it up on my side. Yes, there are things that may DO more, but personally, I prefer a CMS that's allows me to do less.
All I want is a CMS that manages content, and stays out of my way when it comes to design. 1.0.x wouldn't do that, 1.5 doesn't do it by default, but I have so far been able to coax it into doing that, so I'm happy. Since I'm about to go on a multi-site binge, I'm sure I'll have a better picture in a month or so.

I think that's the progress most people go through. Starting out, the prime consideration is easy. But as your design chops improve you start to get annoyed at the assumptions the developers made, and the system starts getting in your way. You start seeing all those little touches that you can't use. And as skill grows, you want something really simple and basic: "just fetch the content and let me wrap it by myself!"

I haven't used js libraries enough to have a favorite. I've generally rolled my own, but haven't done anything really complex, either (auto forms complete, pre-loading option/selects, and the like have been about the extent of it).

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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by arlen » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:37 am

arlen wrote: Don't worry, Amy, I'm sure I'll find something to grumble about eventually.
Well, *that* didn't take long.

I'm still trying to figure out if this is serious enough to be called a bug or just a PEBCAK, but if you create an empty menu, the system is clever enough to realize the menu is empty, but rather than not output a list at all, it outputs an empty list tag (), which is an illegal tag.

First pass has it outputting about 30 XHTML errors in a fairly uncomplicated site, so I've got some code to write.

PS I was rather disappointed that I had to write some code just to get menus to come out as an unordered list with a menu title. Fortunately, the code was easy, so I resisted the urge to go postal over such a simple omission.

There, I *told* you I could find something to grouse about! ;D

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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by kane357 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:19 pm

I am creating a new site. I like drupals features but there tempates suck a big one. Joomla is over all the easiest and most community driven site out there. With tons of options and sites that offer joomla services, you cant go wrong, unless your trying to build a social networking platform with all the bells and whistels.

Plus the joomla.org site rules drupal.org.
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by domineaux » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:23 am

kane357 wrote: I am creating a new site. I like drupals features but there tempates suck a big one. Joomla is over all the easiest and most community driven site out there. With tons of options and sites that offer joomla services, you cant go wrong, unless your trying to build a social networking platform with all the bells and whistels.

Plus the joomla.org site rules drupal.org.
You can go wrong.  I built two 1.5 sites and I've given up on them.  You apply some of the extensions and run in legacy mode you can count on issues.

I have one site I've still not gotten around to that will not render changes in the theme and it's the contest winner.  I have to go into Global configuration and click the SEO on and off and then the site will change... LOL

The problem is my users have had a flaming fit about it.  I haven't had time to migrate back to 1.0.13, but that is where I"m headed.

So... I'd say if you want to poke modules and accept the limitations and features of Joomla extensions Joomla go for it.  If you have to search your databases to supply content to users with about three to five operators, arguments and then sort information on your sites... well you can forget it.

Drupal is tough to learn, but it can do fantastic things with your data.  All that using the modules supplied by the core and developers.  The community is totally open-source and nobody Drupal charges anything for anything.

Comparing the two is really remote, just because they both have a modular concept doesn't make them comparable. Drupal modules are code modules at very core levels, with very few complete out of the box modules you can just poke and run.  The Drupal has modules like Lego, very simple with competent code and hooks to allow the modules to link and interface with each other.  What you wind up with can be very diverse from what someone else using the same modules will produce for their sites.

An example would be a downloads extension.  You would use several basic modules with no reference to being a downloads module and yet when you link several modules together that's what you have. 

IMO, no one CMS rules in the CMS world.  All of the CMS have differences, but I will admit some aren't worth wasting any your time trying to learn.  Some are the work of a handful of developers who just want to do their thing.  So, you drop in and want to build with their stuff you get zip for support and absolutely have to code to get anything out of the CMS.  In fact, you would do better to just do HTML with a good editor and you could have sites up faster that look better in less time (even if you have to learn to code HTML).

I was elated over the 1.5 stable release, but I think like one person said, "The big boys haven't taken to 1.5 yet".  Wait and see, work out the bugs and issues then they'll probably jump aboard.  Now, you're going to get more legacy mode extensions and very few dedicated 1.5s. 
Last edited by domineaux on Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by newart » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:07 am

I'd like to add this: now 1.5 is stable, now You can see all the potentials inside... just wait for a little... I've used sometimes Drupal and I can assure that Joomla is not a second cms!
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by domineaux » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:41 pm

newart wrote: I'd like to add this: now 1.5 is stable, now You can see all the potentials inside... just wait for a little... I've used sometimes Drupal and I can assure that Joomla is not a second cms!
I don't agree.  Joomla 1.5 is NOT stable.  I've got two sites right now that are absolute proof of that. LOL

Also, I do not think of it as a second CMS or second to Drupal.  I think each has importance to site builders. 

There is no way I can build a Drupal site, as full featured as a Joomla site near as fast.  The 1.0.13 version of Joomla has so many extensions I can have full featured sites up very fast.  They work well.

Joomla 1.5 is an excellent choice, but not until documents, support and the code are truly stable.

A good argument might be... build some 1.5 sites that have some traffic, then you can fuss at yourself for taking the wrong Joomla.  LOL
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by newart » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:01 pm

I can understand your doubts about 1.5 but being a young stable release (surely to be debugged more - but the bugs are at low level, not important ones) I don't know what happen in a heavy traffic site. The signature's site is now 1.5 (not finished as I'd like to build it very slowly) but I see that it's very good if you're referring to all previous releases. But what's yr real troubles with your sites? It's interesting to understand what happened to you
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by masterchief » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:25 pm

I'd just like to clarify "stable" or "gold" or whatever you want to call it is, for the want of a better term, just a state of mind.  All it means is that a project has achieved whatever goals it's set out to do and in our case, has reduced the bugs to an acceptable level.  No software project is bug free - they all have trackers.  All software projects are improved by users providing feedback, particularly in relation to bugs.

(Note: this is not the thread to talk about your site problems - start a new one, or even better, raise a ticket on our bug tracker.  However, if you want to point out the differences by which Joomla! and Drupal actually "handle" bugs, go right ahead.  If they do something better by all means share it so we can improve our own systems.)
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by AmyStephen » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:07 pm

domineaux wrote: I don't agree.  Joomla 1.5 is NOT stable.  I've got two sites right now that are absolute proof of that. LOL
Now, that is the kind of post I was expecting! ;)

Anyone who has used Joomla! or Drupal for any length of time could quickly identify ten areas where significant improvement could be made. That's one thing our projects share in common.

Both projects warmly welcome freely offered user guides, developer documents, videos, end user support, patches, third party software, templates, or cold, hard cash. That's another thing our projects share in common.

It is only a very few people - 1% by sociologist estimate - within a community who not only recognize what needs to be done, but, more importantly, they allow themselves to be motivated into action! It is those few people who apply their time, intelligence and skill who advance the project. That's another common trait between the Joomla! and Drupal communities.

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A large non-profit portal -Putting my money where my mouth.

Post by jahsymon » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:49 pm

I am developing a website/portal for a large group of Civil Society organisations (CSOs). The portal is aimed eventually accommondation all the NGOs in the country.

I am a joomla addict and would like to use joomla for this project.

Below I list the features expected.
If it was you would you use drupal or Joomla

The portal will seek to document;
Best practices
Innovative technologies
Lessons learnt
Policy Papers
Tools for CSOs- Eg for monitoring & Evaluation etc
Events Calendar.
Free emails accounts for stakeholders. (using google apps)
Relevant documents collected from stakeholders. (should be able to download directly)
should be able to post Videos uploaded on you tube for example

It will also consist of news updated daily,
human compiled and updated directory for all CSOs in the country
Forum
Photo Organizer
Social Networking community for users
Blogging service for users
Newsletter.
Each CSO should have their area where they can post info about themselves
Should be able to form discussion groups around different themes
Create and share documents, spreadsheets and presentations.
Arrange meetings, set schedules, and publish event information.
Instant message with co-workers and make PC-to-PC voice calls for free.
Preview calendar and docs, add gadgets and search the web from one place
(integrate with Google APPS probably)
customizable user roles and permissions
tools members can use to self-organize
Very attractive and functional interface.
Intuitive navigation since some users are green in IT.
The ability to evolve as the community evolves
A light system since some users will have a slow connection and use dial up with very little width
there should be only one log in for all services
Notice I have pick some features which i know exists in one or both CMS.

Let me have you views
Last edited by jahsymon on Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by Jenny » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:58 pm

You could use either to create the site. With a site of that scope I would choose the cms I was most familiar with, just because the familiarity would save me time.
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by jahsymon » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:48 pm

Thanks.
Am familiar with both but you know Joomla is magic as far as implementation is concerned. However the contract is to develop and  manage it for as period of ten years and I have no deadline as such. i have almost made up my mind what to use but I would like the sincere opinion of more experienced people. I posted this issue here for the sake of the discussion. We have been mostly been having theoretical discussions on the topic. this is a practical case which I present. I also doubt where both of the CMS can do the site equally well. one must surely have an edge. Well as i always say this is just my thought.
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by Jenny » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:01 pm

The only edge one would have over the other for a site of this size would be the ability for the developer to have skills that are better in utilizing one or the other.  Truly - for something this size and complex, it would be the ability of the developer to implement each solution in the most efficient way, with keeping in mind the long term needs of the site.  Both could do the site equally well.  If you are talking a project with a scope of 10 years of continual development, both would work equally well, as both projects at this time are equally well supported by their developers and have a forward plans.

That is the practical answer to your posed question.  It really depends on your personal preference and what you wish to use.
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Re: Drupal Vs Joomla (where Joomla Fails and Major Drawbacks: A discussion )

Post by domineaux » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:08 pm

jahsymon:

I love Joomla, but Drupal would probably be the better solution.  You are describing alot of things that may not be able to be addressed specifically with Joomla.  If you are determined to use Joomla. Then 1.0.13 would definitely be the better version to use at this time, because the number of quality extensions are not available yet with the 1.5 version.  I would suggest you spend some time reviewing the different extenstions to make sure you could acquire all the tools you need to do what you plan. 

Drupal is a kind of "Lego" approach to sitebuilding that definitely has a steep learning curve.  Drupal modules are complete, but are designed to do many things at a lower level. Drupal modules are combined by function to build what we call extensions in Joomla.  You have to thoroughly understand Drupal modules, i.e., what they do, how they relate and how they are applied.  The process is time consuming for anyone and I repeat, "definitely has a steep learning curve" to apply the modules to build your sites.   

In Drupal you would have to research the modules available and find a best fit, which could mean using 4 modules. Then again, you might build what you really want by applying 6 modules.  All the modules are like "lego blocks" they are designed to fit together, but you have to understand the functionality you need and how each module relates to that functionality. The modules will fit, because they are competently coded and designed to inter-relate.  It is up to the sitebuilder to know how to apply the "Drupal" building blocks to have the final application desired.

example:
There is no downloads module like in Joomla that has all the proper inputs and functionality of a pre-built extension like the competent "docman" module.


Your elaborate explanations of what you want to accomplish might be better posted on Drupal forums.  I don't want to be a salesman for Drupal, and I'm sure it would read like that if I attempted to answer all your questions.
Last edited by domineaux on Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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