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Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:48 pm
by brian
It is regret that today, Monday 10th April, I have to announce that I will no longer be a member of the Joomla! core team or a member of the Open Source Matters board.

After over 4 years, first at Mambo and latterly at Joomla, I have worked hard to represent and express the view of a non-developer within the core. Sadly I find myself in the situation that I can no longer ignore my principles and beliefs in free speech and democracy. These beliefs are important to me and I am no longer prepared to have them compromised.

By no longer being a part of the Core team I trust that this will allow me to speak freely and thus better serve the interests of the project as a whole. I am not leaving Joomla nor abandoning a community that contains many friends and I thank those of you that have contacted me privately in recent weeks and months to share similar concerns to me. I trust that you will not be disheartened and will continue to stand up for what you believe in.

Hillel says, "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?" Ethics of the Fathers, 1:14

Brian

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:55 pm
by ivo.apostolov
I didn't understand much of what you are saying and especially the reasons for it, but it is bad, that we are loosing you as a core team member.

Ivo

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:01 pm
by Vimes
I would suggest that this post deserves an immediate and enlightening response from the remaining core members, as it alludes to many things that may not be good for the community.

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:04 pm
by eyezberg
Vimes wrote: I would suggest that this post deserves an immediate and enlightening response from the remaining core members, as it alludes to many things that may not be good for the community.
Yes please.

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:09 pm
by eddyyanto
OMG, Brian.
This is a shocking news for me.
But i do respect your decision.

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:11 pm
by gws
Yes, a sad day indeed.

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:03 pm
by AmyStephen
Brian -

I wish you the best. I really do.

It is obvious you have not agreed with some recent decisions made in the core group. Personally, I think you have wanted to push progress faster than might be possible? All oars have to be in the water getting v. 1.5 out the door. Some of the things you are advocating, Brian, like new websites for templates and spotlights on websites probably have to wait.

If the group cannot deliver v. 1.5, I am afraid that would be pretty bad for Joomla!'s future, don't you?

I really hate to see such bold statements like "ignore my principles and beliefs in free speech and democracy." This is a tender time -- not yet a year old. Please be careful not to tear the community apart. Please, Brian, use your voice to strengthen and encourage Joomla!.

You have been through so much over the past couple of years. I have been googling the history of this story and it sounds to me like each of you on the core team who battled through the change would benefit from a six month sabbatical reading poetry and getting back massages just to get a good perspective on life, again.

Again, Brian, I wish you the best. If you ever want to talk, I am still interested in hearing what you have to say.

Amy

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:26 pm
by Websmurf
Brain, very very sorry to hear this

All the best in what you will do next, and i hope we'll keep seeing you here :)

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:45 pm
by cozimek
Brian,

I'm sorry to hear about your departure, especially with all your hard work in the post-Mambo PR you did.  I'm not sure what your specific reasons for stepping down were, but I do agree with Amy that I'm concerned about the language in your post.  You make it sound like the community or the core was oppressing your right to comment, but I'm unclear as to what this was.  My concern, from a PR perspective, is that when a core team member publishes this out to the world, it concerns the community that the core dev team is taking evasive actions against its own.  I would have wished that you could have posted without this comment, however, it sounds as though you had your reasons.

Wishing you the best, and looking forward to keeping in touch with you in the community.  To be honest, while people do leave the core team, I'm happy to see that most everyone still stays in the community. =)

Rock on!

-Ryan

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:08 pm
by Vimes
cozimek wrote: ...I'm concerned about the language in your post.  You make it sound like the community or the core was oppressing your right to comment...
Looks like that to me.

If one of the most respected members of this community feels this way, this is cause for concern.

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:15 pm
by cozimek
Vimes wrote: If one of the most respected members of this community feels this way, this is cause for concern.
Vimes,

I hear your concern, but without full knowledge of why Brian made his decision, I'm going to hold back on raising alarms.  I don't think that this discussion needs to pressure Brian to publish anything he considers private conversations or thoughts (I think his resignation post was respectful and enlightening).  As Tonie said, people often come and go in OSS communities, but changing of the guard is always hard.  I think the best thing that can be done is for core development team to have their own conversation on this point, and determine if this is a systemic issue.

If it is systemic, and can't be resolved by the core team, then it should be brought to full detail to the community.  If not, I'd rather not see a personal flame war slow us down. =)

Best,
Ryan

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:31 pm
by Vimes
cozimek wrote: I think his resignation post was respectful and enlightening.
Was it a resignation post? He just says he's no longer part of the core team.
cozimek wrote: If it is systemic, and can't be resolved by the core team, then it should be brought to full detail to the community.  If not, I'd rather not see a personal flame war slow us down. =)
There's a fine line between being sensitive to the dangers of starting a flame war, and not saying what's on our minds for fear of offending "somebody". Largely the moderators and users get the balance just right.

However, we're all grown ups here, we shouldn't be afraid of asking difficult questions, or having difficult questions asked of us.

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:36 pm
by HarryB
Tp paraphrase A. Lincoln...

"You can please all of the community some of the time, some of the community all of the time, but not all of the community all of the time!"

Brian played an important role in bth mambo and Joomla and I really hate to see him leave...but in the open source world, we all have freedom of choice...and Brian made his choice...so be it...

Good luck to you Brian....and hope to continue reading your posts here...

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:28 pm
by eyezberg
Cozimek, thanks to you I learned the meaning of "systemic".
At least, it is good for something..

Now, knowing the meaning of the word (google "define:systemic" if you don't), and in the light of vavroom, infograph, and brian leaving Core (plus related? "disappearances" of some other members like tim, emir, levis, andy, peter... http://www.joomla.org/content/blogcategory/13/29/ ) since the split, I really wonder: is it "just too much" (pressure, work, no free time...), or is there something else.

It would be good, in order to avoid any useless speculations and questions, to have a word from Andrew (as project leader) about all this.

If there is nothing to it, the explanation should be quite simple. If there is, and considering a few "departures" happened in a short time, maybe Core should think about the reasons.. might be good for the team. Up to you folks, life goes on no matter what.

Amy, I don't know what Brian was advocating, I don't think these items not having been picked up would cause him to leave (at least, his post indicates other reasons), but I do think you posting about 1.5 being more important than whatever caused this is weird, is code more important than the (community of) Core members.. or did I misinterpret your words?

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:04 pm
by AmyStephen
eyezberg wrote:Amy, I don't know what Brian was advocating, I don't think these items not having been picked up would cause him to leave (at least, his post indicates other reasons), but I do think you posting about 1.5 being more important than whatever caused this is weird, is code more important than the (community of) Core members.. or did I misinterpret your words?
I have no idea how you would draw that conclusion from my post and from knowing and working with me, but, I do appreciate you suggesting it could have been a misinterpretation. I will assume, Joe that you mean this sincerely.

We need to focus on finishing v. 1.5 rather than heading in more directions. My opinion on this comes from listening to your voice on the recent 1.1 vs 1.5 thread. Taking on more now is not a good idea IMO. I think this has been your point many times, as well, and I agree with it.

Again, given everything all of you have been through this past couple of years, how much has been personally sacrificed to bring Joomla! to this point...it is not surprising to me that some people are choosing to sit the dance out for awhile.

Brian indicated he will continue in a way that he believes he can “speak freely and thus better serve the interests of the project.” I hope that we all – every single one of us – will be very careful as we use our voices, that we do so in such a way that we build up this community rather than tear it apart. We might not all get everything we want all of the time. But, if we are not careful, we will all wind up with nothing.

Now, since you have been so bold. I have a question for you. Of all of these posts, why are you targeting Cozimek and me? Why are we being called out to defend ourselves to you? Is there also room for hopeful spirit and positive attitude in this community?

I know you like to spar and that can be alot of fun -- but, I am not interested in further engagement in this public place on this particular topic. If you want to chat with me, let's do it in IM -- you know how to reach me. I have no involvement in this matter and my debate with you will not uncover the mysteries of the universe nor make the world a better place.

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:28 pm
by eyezberg
Don't want to spar, I agree at the moment 1.5 should be the main focus of everyone's efforts, so as not to delay it any further, so I suggest this thread is not usefull and let's get back to other things, ok? ;)
(see the wink?)
I am not targeting you, and
a/was sincere in thanking coz' for teaching me that word!
b/was really wondering if you could've meant what I thought you might've meant (if that still makes sense..) as usually,, you seem to care for people quite a lot.
No worries, lady, and if we ever chat (still need to get some soft for that..), I do hope you can uncover some mysteries for me, maybe not of the universe, but parts of it..

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:32 pm
by AmyStephen
Thank-you, Joe.  :-[ My apologies for the over-reaction.  :P

Re: Brian

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:19 pm
by TomT
Brian, it's good to hear you will stay involved in Joomla. Thanks a lot for all your hard work you've done.

Re: Brian

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:54 am
by joomlacorner
Good luck to you Brian!

If you come to thailand don't foget to tel me!.

Re: Brian

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:49 am
by LorenzoG
I want to second with the people here and thank you Brian, for all your efforts and hard work for our community, both in Mambo and now in Joomla!
My impression has and is.. that you have always had the best for the community in your eyes. I'm happy to hear that you will continue to stay with us in the Joomla! community  :)

Re: Brian

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:04 am
by infograf768

Re: Brian

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:59 pm
by rejuvinet
Anyone who's been around for a while knows that Brian and I have butted heads on more than just a few occasions in the five-plus years we've known each other - both while we were involved with Mambo and here with Joomla.  That could NEVER take away from the respect I have for him and the dedication and contibution Brian demonstrated as one of the very few non-developers who were as deeply immersed in this project as he was.  I don't think anyone could have been more passionate about this project, or offered as much as he did, and it is indeed a sad announcement.

With his departure from the Core team and resignation from the OSM Board, Joomla has lost yet another stellar performer in Brian Teeman.

I wish you the best, Brian, and look forward to continuing to see you around the hallowed halls of this community.  I definitely look forward to seeing your pic right along with Nic, Robert Castley, and the others who have dedicated so much to bringing this project to what it is today in the "Hall of Fame" type of recognition area Andrew mentioned in the official announcement.  You more than deserve it.

Re: Brian

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:04 pm
by MystaMax
All your efforts and accomplishments are much appreciate Brian.

As we say 'round here, 'Stay up, and keep ya head high!'  Good luck to you!

Re: Brian

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:04 pm
by damo
brian
its past 4pm
good luck

Re: Brian

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:05 pm
by cozimek
Just have to send my ditto to Dave's remarks.  Looking forward to seeing Brian on the Hall of Fame. =)

Best,
Ryan

Re: Brian

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:34 pm
by iainshaw
Want to add my thanks to the long list.  A big thank you Brian for your work here and at Mambo and I do hope we continue to see you around

Re: Brian

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:39 am
by Damienov
cozimek wrote: Just have to send my ditto to Dave's remarks.  Looking forward to seeing Brian on the Hall of Fame. =)

Best,
Ryan
I think we should make something like this!
to remember all those that have been involved in this project

Re: Brian

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:40 am
by kenmcd
Brian is on the Mambo Honour Roll.
http://www.mamboserver.com/index.php?op ... &Itemid=97

I searched http://www.Joomla.org for an Honour Roll - nothing found.
I also searched Google for an Honour Roll on the the http://www.Joomla.org site - nothing found.

In fact, nothing found on anyone who has left the project other than comments buried in core team "news."

Interesting.

Re: Brian

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:10 am
by infograf768
ken,

I have to say here that, when I resigned from Core, I was offered to introduce the Honour Roll for Joomla! and declined that proposal as I am not the  RIP kind of guy.  ;)

As I have never been looking for any publicity, this is really unimportant for me. Image

Re: Brian

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:22 am
by brad
Ken, it's been done: http://www.joomla.org/content/blogcategory/13/29/ :P

Rey probably took time out from something important to fit it into his schedule, but we now have an honour roll :)